Rockson
Well-known member
But at the end of the day you're still saying it's irresistible correct?
Irresistible Grace
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Acts 7:51–53 (KJV 1900) — 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Biblelesson
Active member
At the beginning of the day and the middle of the day and at the end of the day. I wouldn't want to make the assumption that God's grace is irresistible without bringing in all the proof texts that lead me to this conclusion. So the answer is yes but here's why...
Jesus is irresistible to those who have been made alive to the things of God. Every soul whose heart beats with the life of God within it longs for the living Christ. It goes back to that god shaped hole in all of us.
All whom the Father gives to Christ come to Christ.
All whom My Father gives (entrusts) to Me will come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will most certainly not cast out [I will never, no never, reject one of them who comes to Me]. John 6:37.
Salvation Comes from the extravagant love of God. It is due to undeserved grace of God to sinners under condemnation by the law and headed toward eternal destruction.
“By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” Ephesians 2:8–9
I'm sure you heard this all before but I'll be back with more. Have a blessed day brother!
civic
Well-known member
In John 6- It is those who listen and learn from the Father are the same ones that the Father draws to the Son and they come. (John 6:45 )
Biblelesson
Active member
Morning Tom, How's the weather in Florida? I'm in New England temperature looks about the same. Looks like it's going to be a beautiful day.
This is the day that the lord has made "we" will rejoice and be glad in it. I'm heading off to the gym to work out with my senior Buddies. There's actually more senior females there than men.
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Biblelesson
Active member
Morning Civic. My take on John 6:37 is it explain the idea of eternal life and touches on at least two doctrines which are controversial within Christianity. So it's understandable we're not going to all agree. But regardless the first is that of predestination, implied by Jesus' use of the phrase "all that the Father gives me will come to me."
This suggests that those who accept Jesus' teaching, that He is the Bread of Life, meaning those who obtain eternal life, are identical to those who are "given" to Him by God the Father. Logically, this implies that those who do not come to Christ have not been "given" to Him.
I also understand you know all the arguments, Pro and Con About Calvinism. I'm just adding my two cents.
civic
Well-known member
and they are the same ones Jesus said who already listen and learn from the Father - John 6:45.
That is because they hear and believe the father being his sheep
Yet were they the fathers they would have been given to Christ and become his
civic
Well-known member
yep the context is clear.
Indeed
John 5:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Biblelesson
And thats the New Birth or regeneration by the Spirit or effectual grace. So when Paul wrote that some had believed by Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: He was talking about regeneration by the spirit, which is the Spirit of Grace Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
The Look of Faith on Christ followed the working of the Spirit of Grace
And thats the New Birth or regeneration by the Spirit or effectual grace. So when Paul wrote that some had believed by Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: He was talking about regeneration by the spirit, which is the Spirit of Grace Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
The Look of Faith on Christ followed the working of the Spirit of Grace
Sorry but you beg the question
No verse states men believe because of regeneration
Rather we see regeneration which produces life follows after faith
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God regenerates those he has forgiven
Forgiveness requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Believing is by the Grace of the Spirit and its effectual 1 Thess 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
You addressed no rebuttal
and your verse does not state God works effectual for you to believe
Note they received the word of God believing.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Believing is by the Grace of the Spirit and its effectual 1 Thess 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
You addressed no rebuttal
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/irresistible-grace.340/post-93014
and your verse does not state God works effectual for you to believe
Note they received the word of God believing.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Believing is by the Grace of the Spirit and its effectual 1 Thess 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
You addressed no rebuttal
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/irresistible-grace.340/post-93014
and your verse does not state God works effectual for you to believe
Note they received the word of God believing.
civic
Well-known member
in you who believe- believers the same with predestination- believers, not unbelievers.
Paul uses predestination in Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5;11 to those who are already saved. Paul does not use the word for unbelievers who are predestined before the world ( false teaching of augustine, calvin ).
What Paul says we believers are predestined to is adoption, to be conformed to the image of Christ, those predestined to be conformed are those who He called, justified and glorified. Notice its believers, not unbelievers who are predestined. There is nothing about unbelievers being predestined before the world. Those who believe in Christ are those who are predestined to be conformed to Christ and adoption as sons.
No one is ever predestined to believe in Christ. Those who are already in Christ are the ones predestined to be conformed into His image and adoption as sons. The bible never says anyone that is not saved were predestined before they were saved. No one is predestined to be saved.
hope this helps !!!
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