Irresistible Grace

[brightfame52]

As usual you ignore rebuttal

The phrase all live does not appear in the text

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

All died. All do not live. Christ died for all

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live

 

[TomL]

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live

Nope

That idea does not appear in the text

The phrase all live does not appear in the text

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

All died. All do not live. Christ died for all

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

That idea does not appear in the text

The phrase all live does not appear in the text

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

All died. All do not live. Christ died for all

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live.

 

[TomL]

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/irresistible-grace.340/post-92519

 

[brightfame52]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/irresistible-grace.340/post-92519

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live.

 

[TomL]

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live.

We do not read all live

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/irresistible-grace.340/post-92519

 

[brightfame52]

We do not read all live

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/irresistible-grace.340/post-92519

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live.

 

[civic]

As usual you ignore rebuttal

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

All died. All do not live. Christ died for all

Yes caught in a giant pickle of a trap

 

[TomL]

Yes caught in a giant pickle of a trap

That poster does not seem to care.

Scripture is of importance only in so far as his/her theology can be read into it.

 

[TomL]

2 Cor 5 is all about the chosen of God and yes they do all be made alive and live.

Point out where it states all live.

If you can't, you have no argument

 

[brightfame52]

Point out where it states all live.

If you can't, you have no argument

Its in the verse, they all died with Christ which in turn, because He lived, or rose again, so do they 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

That was the purpose of Him dying for all whom He died, that through Him they shall live unto Him. They are His Fruit Jn 12 24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Of course Im sure you cant see this marvelous truth.

Since they were in the likeness of His death, so likewise they will be in the likeness of His Resurrection Rom 6 4-6

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

I wont be doing this for you a lot, in fact Im just showing others who I think may understand, that if I want to, I can back up my claims with scripture, so you got a break this time

 

[TomL]

Its in the verse, they all died with Christ which in turn, because He lived, or rose again, so do they 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

That was the purpose of Him dying for all whom He died, that through Him they shall live unto Him. They are His Fruit Jn 12 24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Of course Im sure you cant see this marvelous truth.

Since they were in the likeness of His death, so likewise they will be in the likeness of His Resurrection Rom 6 4-6

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

I wont be doing this for you a lot, in fact Im just showing others who I think may understand, that if I want to, I can back up my claims with scripture, so you got a break this time

Stop running

Where in the passage does it state all live?

 

[brightfame52]

Stop running

Where in the passage does it state all live?

So rehearse with me what I explained

 

[TomL]

So rehearse with me what I explained

stop your dodging

Stop running

Where in the passage does it state all live?

 

[brightfame52]

stop your dodging

Stop running

Where in the passage does it state all live?

So rehearse with me what I explained

 

[TomL]

So rehearse with me what I explained

stop your dodging

Stop running

Where in the passage does it state all live?

 

[brightfame52]

stop your dodging

Stop running

Where in the passage does it state all live?

So rehearse with me what I explained

 

[Biblelesson]

The doctrine of irresistible grace says that the Holy Spirit never fails to bring His own to faith.

God must work within the sinner to make him willing to come to Christ. John 6:44 says that unless the Father “draws” him, a sinner will not believe the gospel. The original word for draw implies an effective power. We may kick against the gospel before we are made willing to receive it, but not after our wills are so changed.

I've been reading an article by R.C. Sproul That's very informative entitled, "Irresistible Grace". In it he says he that’s he prefers the term effectual grace rather than irresistible grace, because this grace effects what God intends to effect by it. The idea of irresistible grace provokes a lot of controversy, and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it.

I agree with RC's conclusion. The word irresistible conjures up the idea that one cannot possibly offer any resistance to the grace of God. But, beloved, the history of the human race is the history of relentless resistance to the sweetness of the grace of God. What is meant by irresistible grace is not what the word seems to suggest, that grace is incapable of being resisted. Indeed, we are capable of resisting God’s grace, and we do resist God’s grace. But the idea here is that, in spite of our natural resistance to the grace of God, God’s grace is so powerful that it has the capacity to overcome our natural resistance to it. The term effectual grace rather than irresistible grace is better because this grace effects what God intends to effect by it.

Once you get a good handle on effectual grace it's time to move on to the heart of the matter. That would be that regeneration proceeds Faith.
Now, when theologians use this language of precede, what is in view with respect to the order of salvation is what we call logical priority. For example, we believe that justification is by faith alone. We don’t say that faith is by justification, but rather that justification is by faith. We believe that, in the very instant a person has faith, God declares them just in Christ.

There is no time gap between the presence of faith and the presence of justification—in time they’re simultaneous. But when we say that justification is by faith, and not faith by justification, what do we mean? We mean that the reality of justification depends upon a prior condition, the presence of something else, for it to be real. In this case, justification depends upon faith, not faith upon justification.

So, when we talk about regeneration preceding faith, this means that before a person exercises saving faith, before they believe in Christ, before that individual exercises his or her will to embrace Christ, God must do something for them and in them so that faith can be exercised.

 

[Rockson]

I've been reading an article by R.C. Sproul That's very informative entitled, "Irresistible Grace". In it he says he that’s he prefers the term effectual grace rather than irresistible grace, because this grace effects what God intends to effect by it. The idea of irresistible grace provokes a lot of controversy, and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it.

But BL it's still the same end result which is irresistible. He said effectual grace sounds better but the point is if it ultimately guarantees a certain end result without fail well you're still talking about irresistible. In other words you could probably sell it better by using a word like effectual but would it truly not be being somewhat disengeious? As I say it's still a teaching of irresistible grace. The only difference is you're saying it's resistible for only a period of time. Eventually the irresistible aspect would still take over.

. The term effectual grace rather than irresistible grace is better because this grace effects what God intends to effect by it.

Yes but in an irresistible fashion.

We believe that, in the very instant a person has faith, God declares them just in Christ.

I'd say that they still need to act on their faith and confess the Lordship of Christ over their lives. Confession is made UNTO...UNTO salvation. Rom 10:9,10

 

[Biblelesson]

But BL it's still the same end result which is irresistible. He said effectual grace sounds better but the point is if it ultimately guarantees a certain end result without fail well you're still talking about irresistible. In other words you could probably sell it better by using a word like effectual but would it truly not be being somewhat disengeious? As I say it's still a teaching of irresistible grace. The only difference is you're saying it's resistible for only a period of time. Eventually the irresistible aspect would still take over.

Yes but in an irresistible fashion.

I'd say that they still need to act on their faith and confess the Lordship of Christ over their lives. Confession is made UNTO...UNTO salvation. Rom 10:9,10

I understand what you're saying and I think that's why RC put this sentence in there.

"The idea of irresistible grace provokes a lot of controversy, and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it."

When God exercises this grace in the soul, He brings about the effect that He intends to bring about by it. When He brings you to spiritual life, redeems you, it is His work, and His alone, that brings you into that state of rebirth and becoming a new creation.