civic
Well-known member
notice the order. you have it backwards.
the hearing of the gospel
responding in faith
salvation, regeneration
Irresistible Grace
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
the hearing of the gospel
responding in faith
salvation, regeneration
brightfame52
Well-known member
False statement. Judas was a chosen vessel of wrath and fitted for destruction/perdition John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Are you saying God chose a devil for one of His Sheep
Jn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Are you saying the son of perdition was a Sheep He laid down His Life for ? A son of perdition is a vessel of wrath fitted for perdition
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Do you recognize the Calvinist teaching that God doesn't love some people?
If you do, then how do you reconcile the fact that sinners love their own and yet you're attributing this "type" of love to God?
God loves all those who do not love Him. That is the love of God.
The word of salvation is to be sent to all
Mark 16:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
brightfame52
Well-known member
According to Acts 13 its sent to a specific group Acts 13 26
26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
The stock of Abraham and them that fear God are located world wide, thats why God told Abraham concerning his Seed Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Only Abrahams Seed will be saved
The stock of Abraham and them that fear God are located world wide, thats why God told Abraham concerning his Seed Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Only Abrahams Seed will be saved
Biblelesson
Active member
Scripture clearly teaches that God both loves everyone and that some will forever perish.
Sinners can love because God has given us that ability. You even find it in the animal kingdom. He also gives us common Grace. Therefore we're not as bad as we could be.
If God didn't love everyone then no one would get saved.
God has a general love for all his creations.
The Lord is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works [the entirety of things created].
Psalm 145:9.
But when we speak of God’s unchanging love, we do not mean that God accepts all people.
He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.] John 3:18
36 And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God’s displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.] [Hab. 2:4.]
John 3:36.
God does not have unlimited patience with the unrepentant.
Or are you [so blind as to] trifle with and presume upon and despise and underestimate the wealth of His kindness and forbearance and long-suffering patience? Are you unmindful or actually ignorant [of the fact] that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repent (to change your mind and inner man to accept God’s will)?
5 But by your callous stubbornness and impenitence of heart you are storing up wrath and indignation for yourself on the day of wrath and indignation, when God’s righteous judgment (just doom) will be revealed.
Romans 2:4–5.
The Lord can withdraw the mercies of his general love and send sinners to hell forever.
Therefore the Lord will not rejoice over their young men, neither will He have compassion on their fatherless and widows, for everyone is profane and an evildoer, and every mouth speaks folly. For all this, [God’s] anger is not turned away, but His hand is still stretched out [in judgment]. Isaiah 9:17
4 And My eye will not spare you, neither will I have pity; but I will bring recompense for your evil ways upon you, while your abominations are in the midst of you [calling down punishment from a righteous God]; and you shall know (recognize, understand, and realize) that I am the Lord.
9And My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity. I will punish you according to your ways while your abominations are right in the midst of you. And you shall know, understand, and realize that it is I the Lord Who smites you
Ezek. 7:4, 9
All their wickedness [says the Lord] is focused in Gilgal, for there I hated them; for the wickedness of their [idolatrous] doings I will drive them out of My house [the Holy Land]; I will love them no more; all their princes are rebels.
Hosea 9:15
41 Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!
46 Then they will go away into eternal punishment, but those who are just and upright and in right standing with God into eternal life.
Matthew 25:41, 46
Biblelesson
Active member
I think this post covers what I think of the love of God. I'm sorry I haven't taken a look at that thread yet but I will right now.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Biblelesson
So God loving someone doesnt ensure they will be saved ? Thats incredible, and its not scriptural
Gods Love saves His People out of being dead in sin Eph 2:4-6
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
I believe thats one of the most horrible things to say about Gods Love for sinners, that even when He Loves them with Great Love, they will perish !
So God loving someone doesnt ensure they will be saved ? Thats incredible, and its not scriptural
Gods Love saves His People out of being dead in sin Eph 2:4-6
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
I believe thats one of the most horrible things to say about Gods Love for sinners, that even when He Loves them with Great Love, they will perish !
Biblelesson
Active member
I would gladly explain it to you. Many Christians have a view of God’s love like a girl picking petals off a daisy, saying, “He loves me…. He loves me not!” If God’s love did change with our conduct and circumstances, then God would be riding a gut-wrenching roller-coaster of love. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
So how is it that God genuinely loves the non-elect when true love would compel him to bring about their salvation? By distinguishing between (1) God’s providential love for creation, (2) his salvific stance toward fallen humanity (God’s general call), and (3) his particular and effective love toward the elect (God’s effectual call), God can be said to truly love the non-elect because he loves them in the first two senses.
Incredible huh?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Friend, nothing can explain that to me. Its horrible to say that about Gods Great Love, and its not in scripture. Testimonial of Gods Love in scripture is always saving Rev 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That is a extraordinarily good question that I haven't seen in a very long time......
However, I believe you are mistaken.
There is an aspect of love that you're not actually addressing....... Sincerity.
Which really is the "crux" of human existence. Forcing someone to love you isn't love. There is no sense of sincerity when love is "forced"......
It is why Jesus challenged His disciples.... "If you "sincerely" love me, keep my commandments". Prove it.
Sincerity requires a individual to "come to realize" of their own volition, the value they sincerely place in knowing God. Such love is not known among mankind much anymore. The selfless value of a sincere love.
Love seeks not her own...... (God doesn't seek His own in loving others)....
Let that settle into your spirit....
1Co 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up.
1Co 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self-serving,
God doesn't NEED us. Calvinism has fostered a unendling sense of "need" in what they claim are the "elect".....
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Biblelesson
Active member
Not convinced yet hun? Let me try a different approach. The greatest glory for God is for us to know God and enjoy him forever, which is what Christ’s atonement is all about.
The doctrine of God’s unchanging love reveals God’s divine nature. God’s love for the people he redeemed in Christ is not just something that he does. “God is love” as shown in 1 John 4:8. If God’s love for us fluctuates, then God’s very being changes.
I love how Christ made this amazing statement when praying to his Father for his people: “You sent me and loved them even as you loved me.” John 17:23
So the better we know his unchanging love for us, the better we know the eternal love of the Father for the Son in the holy Trinity.
The immutability of God’s love shows us the certainty of God’s promise. The Lord says, “For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed”
Isaiah 54:10
Biblelesson
Active member
More on God's love
Biblelesson
Active member
Genuine love is pretty hard to fake even for a good psychopath. The truth always comes out in the end. Since love actually is my favorite topic I'll be posting more on it. But as to your mention of being forced. Is that like a metaphor of being "dragged kicking and screaming to the cross?" Just asking.
You made a lot of good points that I'll keep in mind.
Hosanna
Well-known member
That was my favorite topic also. Here's a good post About love.
WHAT' S LOVE GOT TO WITH IT?
In our society, love is usually spoken of in passive terms. That is, love is something that happens to us over which we have little or no control. We “fall” in love. We speak this way chiefly because we associate love with a particular feeling or emotion. Such emotion cannot be produced by pushing a button or by a conscious act of the will. We do not “decide” to fall in love with someone.
The Bible, however, speaks of love in far more active terms. The concept of love functions more as a verb than as a noun. Love is a duty—an action we are obliged to perform. God commands us to love our neighbor, to love our spouse, and even to love our enemies. It is one thing to conjure up feelings of love and affection for one’s enemies; it is another thing to act in a loving manner toward them.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Thanks.
I've often referenced such love as "Stockholm syndrome".
Satan is rather good at pretending to be god....... He almost always presents himself as an "angel of light". However, He is ALWAYS.... seeking His own. Always.
However, consider, that humanity is naturally willing to die for their own. It happens all the time. Firemen. Policemen. Military. (your own experience)
Such are attributes left from the "fingerprints of God" upon ALL of humanity.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Dead wrong. Love is both extraordinarily emotional and a willing choice of the mind.
Such is meaningless if your agenda is always to have your way. It is called coercion.
God doesn't need us to accomplish anything relative to Himself. He loves for US........Purely for US.....
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah Im convinced, its pitiful to say someone God Loved shall perish. When scripture shows that Gods Great Love saves from being dead in trespasses and sins, walking after the flesh and mind Eph 2:3-6
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
One can actually say by Gods Great Love ye are saved !
Biblelesson
Active member
That's funny you mentioned that about the Stockholm syndrome I was reading something about that just the other day. Patty Hearst her story was the one that brought that to the public. The good old Symbionese Liberation Army. They didn't exactly live up to their name. Sort of like Islam, The religion of peace "And a lot of dead bodies." That's it enough negativity
Yes I always look up the policeman and fireman and military. I go to the VA hospital and a lot of times and it breaks my heart to see those young guys in there With their wives and kids and missing their arms and their legs over defending our right to be free.
Oh I love that last line.
Such are attributes left from the "fingerprints of God" upon ALL of humanity.
That would make a great sermon topic. First thing that comes to my mind is when we look at each other we can look for the Fingerprints of God on the other person.
I was reading one of my devotion books the other morning. It was talking about being positive in the Lord. Sort of like he works all things together for our good.
I'm going to try and be as positive as I can be on this forum. Need to look at the bright side. Like walking in the Light.
