I am now convinced 1 John 5:7-8 is authentic.

Diserner

Well-known member
I read some critical assessments of the strongest single verse supporting the Trinity in my early days and just assumed this was an obvious forgery.

I am now convinced I decided too hastily—and there is strong reasons to consider the "Johannine Comma" authentic:


 
I'm reading the first source "Berean" and it has some good arguments that I have not heard before and with the majority of copiests being Arian during the time eriod in question is makes sense especially with Jeromes comments on the issue.
 

The Early Church Fathers Quoted the Comma​


The earliest possible reference to the Comma comes from Tertullian. He was born somewhere between 155-160 and died somewhere between 220-240. This is somewhat important because he predates Arius and his Arian teachings by several decades.


Tertullian only alludes to the Comma; he doesn’t directly quote it.


“Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, one from the other, which three are one, not one [person], as it is said, “I and my Father are One.””

He alluded to it again, though it’s just an allusion and not a direct quote.


For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: — while, through the benediction, we have the same (three) as witnesses of our faith whom we have as sureties of our salvation too— how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the promise of salvation under three witnesses, there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,) there is the Church, which is a body of three.”


The allusion to the Comma isn’t 100% clear, but it’s there. 1 John 5 talks much about salvation and verses 7-8 talk about witnesses. Tertullian seems to indicate the witnesses in mind here are the Father Son and Holy Spirit, which would fit with the Comma.


Cyprian clearly quotes the Comma. He lived from 200 – 258, and so also predated Aruis and the Arian controversies.This is a crystal clear allusion to the Comma.


“The Lord says, “I and the Father are one; “ and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, “And these three are one.”
(Treatise I:6)

Let’s pause for a moment. There is no place in all of scripture (that I can’t think) with the phrase “and these three are one” except the Comma. None. If you can think of one besides The Comma, send me an email or leave a comment and I’ll edit this article in a heartbeat.

That means something here.

Cyprian specifically says “it is written” and then quotes “and these three are one”. Following the Biblical examples, people only use that phrasing when quoting the Bible. The only place that phrase appears in the whole Bible is The Comma. Therefore, The Comma is a Biblical quote according to Cyprian. (not that’s he’s infallible, but it’s strong evidence.)

Origen (born 184, died 253) directly alludes to the Comma.

“Behold, the eyes of bondservants in the hands of their lord, as the eyes of a bondwoman in the hands of their lady, so are our eyes towards the Lord our God, until he may pity us; spirit and body are the bondservants of the Lord Father and Son; but the soul is the bondwoman of the lady Holy Spirit. And the Lord our God is three, for the three are one.“

Athanasius (Born 296-298, died 373) directly alluded to the Comma.

“But also, is not that sin-remitting, life-giving and sanctifying washing [baptism], without which, no one shall see the kingdom of heaven, given to the faithful in the Thrice-Blessed Name? In addition to all these, John affirms, ‘and these three are one.‘” (Translation by KJV Today)

Priscillian of Avila quotes the Comma in 380 AD. Curiously, the order is reversed, but all the content is there.


“As John says, There are three that give testimony in earth: the water, the flesh and the blood; and these three are one and there are three that give testimony in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Spirit; and these three are one in Christ Jesus.

Augustine directly alludes to the Comma.

“Therefore God supreme and true, with His Word and Holy Spirit (which three are one), one God omnipotent, creator and maker of every soul and of every body;”

And in his exegesis of 1 John 5:8, Augustine also said:


Three things then we know to have issued from the Body of the Lord when He hung upon the tree: first, the spirit: of which it is written, ‘And He bowed the head and gave up the spirit:’ then, as His side was pierced by the spear, ‘blood and water.’ Which three things if we look at as they are in themselves, they are in substance several and distinct, and therefore they are not one. But if we will inquire into the things signified I by these, there not unreasonably comes into our thoughts the Trinity itself, which is the One, Only, True, Supreme God, Father and Son and Holy Ghost, of whom it could most truly be said, ‘There are Three Witnesses, and the Three are One:’
 
I'm reading the first source "Berean" and it has some good arguments that I have not heard before and with the majority of copiests being Arian during the time eriod in question is makes sense especially with Jeromes comments on the issue.

The grammar argument is quite strong for me as well. Many have noted without the verse the Greek grammar is incorrect.
 
The grammar argument is quite strong for me as well. Many have noted without the verse the Greek grammar is incorrect.
It’s been literally 35 years since I have looked into this when I was studying NT Greek with my pastor. So I’m a bit rusty on the topic these days. But the Greek grammar makes a great argument.
 
It’s been literally 35 years since I have looked into this when I was studying NT Greek with my pastor. So I’m a bit rusty on the topic these days. But the Greek grammar makes a great argument.

You know the amazing thing is the verse always resonated with me, but I trusted the intellectuals at the time too much.
 
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