Humility And Calvinism?

I have heard of this defense before. But Paul's own words in Rom. 2 dispel it, in my view.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation "of the righteous judgment of God";

6 Who will render to every man according to "his deeds":

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and "do not obey the truth", but "obey unrighteousness", indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that "doeth evil", of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man "that worketh good", to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 "For there is no respect of persons with God".

So Synergy, there is no "targeting different groups". God's instruction in Righteousness, His Righteous Judgment is shown to "Every Man". Sodom knew about them. Rehab knew about them. Cornelious knew about them. According to God's Inspired Word, "Every man" is judged by their "works". God is teaching men through the Apostles that those who "Deny themselves" and "Yield themselves" servants to God "as obedient children", are justified, Jew or Gentile. And those who reject God's Judgments and instruction are rejected. Offering money, or the Blood of an innocent being, or casting out devils in Christ's Name, justifies no flesh that "works iniquity".

So the disobedient Jew or the disobedient Gentile are under the exact same instruction. As Paul teaches in his other letters.

Eph. 4: 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth "walk not" as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, "which after God" is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And what do you end up with here? "Men that are his (God's) workmanship, created in Christ Jesus "unto good works", which God hath before ordained that we (Jew and Gentile) should walk in them.

For there are not 2 groups of people in the Christ Jesus "of the Bible".
Circumstances do count. If a baby is aborted, is it his fault that he never learned about the 10 Commandments? Gentiles were under different circumstances as were Jews and as we as Christians are right now. So there are not just 2 groups. There are at least 3 main groups with at least a billion subgroups. God is always just and fair. He doesn't penalize you for that which you have no control over.
Where are these Pagan's that didn't know anything about the true God in Romans 2? There were Gentiles who didn't have the Law, as did the Jews. But didn't they hear about God even picking up the crumbs that fell off the masters tables? Did they write God's law on their own hearts?

Please try to think about Scriptures apart from this world's religious influences. Paul just told you that God is no respecter of persons, and how Jews and Gentiles are judged the same. I have heard this "two groups" stuff taught in this world's religions, but it doesn't align with the rest of the teaching of Paul, in my view. There is no salvation for men who "Don't know anything about true God" in scriptures.
Gentiles will be judged under the circumstances they found themselves under. They will be judged at least according to their conscience.
I believe God reveals Himself to Every Man, one way or another. But this argument doesn't even pertain to men in America, or most of the world, as we all have access to the righteousness of God, and His Wrath against the unrighteousness and ungodliness of men. So for this country, there is no excuse.


I have heard of this term "Legalism" bandied about like a weapon, by this world's self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness". Paul said of the mainstream religion of his time, who professed to know God, "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Titus 1: They profess that they "know God"; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I assume that when you use the word "Legalism", you are speaking to religious men who claim to know God, but in their actions and deeds they deny Him and refuse to humble themselves to Him in obedience, or as Paul teaches, refuses to "Walk in" the "Good works" God before ordained that His People should walk in them.

We certainly agree on that.
What you wrote is what I meant by legalism. The Pharisees obeyed the letter of the law, not the Spirit of the law.
Please Take your time and thank you. But please consider that with most preachers promoting this world's religious sects, their flesh drives them to defend and justify the religious philosophy they have adopted and are now promoting, regardless of what the scriptures actually say.

Take your time and seek the truth of the Scriptures and resist the temptation to justify yourself. I know firsthand how men deceive themselves to preserve their own adopted religious traditions and doctrines, from my own journey coming out of them. God's Truth will humiliate and break us at first. There is an exodus out of this world's religions for every true believer. But what remains is a New Man worthy of saving. At least this is what Paul teaches we Hope For.

I look forward to further discussions.
I'm trying to get a handle on where we deviate and why. I think you're trying to group everything under one umbrella which is the Law. What's your opinion on where we deviate? My "umbrella" is Christ. The Law Giver is, by definition at least, much much greater than the Law.
 
What we often fail to recognize in the book of Romans is that Paul was simply "wetting the appetite" of those at Rome.
And where does Paul say this? There is nothing in Romans that says or even suggests that he giving a “lite” version of teaching that he will expand upon later. Maybe that’s why we fail to recognize it; it never happened!


As such, there are often seemingly opposed states of fact being made from one thought to the next in the middle of Paul's letter to Rome.
Examples? Romans is the epitome of cohesion of thought, against which all other efforts of Paul are judged.


Paul is stating facts with very little commentary to reconcile one thought completely with the other.
So the singular book that epitomizes Paul’s theological brilliance doesn’t “reconcile one thought completely with the other”?


He later elaborated upon such thoughts when he visited the believers in Rome upon his visit.
Did he tell you this in a private letter?


Doug
 
In Rom 6 our union with Christ has set us free not to sin.
I disagree: Paul goes from the incompatibility of the deliberate, continuous practice of sin in a believers life (6:1-4) in relation to Grace as opposed to works of law, to finishing the chapter saying we “have been set free from sin”- not from sinning, but from the power power of sin, which would include the consistent ability to not sin.

In Rom 7, Paul realizes that he still has a propensity to sin in his members,
Paul starts chapter 7 with a theme begun in chapter 6, being dead! In chapter 6, we dead to sin so how can we live any longer in it, but in chapter 7, we have died to our old husband, the law. Paul then takes a walk back in time and personalizes how the law and the sin nature affects our lives and leaves us dead in our sin and in need of a savior. It is a final recapitulation that the law is not the mean of our salvation, Christ is!


and in Rom 8 he describes the solution of sin which is our abiding in the Spirit.
The solution is sin is Christ! The means of living in that freedom is through the Spirit not the sinful nature, the flesh to which we have died. (I get what you’re saying, I just think expressing the details gives it a slightly different vibe.)

Therefore, there is a fluidity of Paul's thought pattern from one chapter to another.
There is fluidity, with this I fully agree!


Doug
 
I disagree: Paul goes from the incompatibility of the deliberate, continuous practice of sin in a believers life (6:1-4) in relation to Grace as opposed to works of law, to finishing the chapter saying we “have been set free from sin”- not from sinning, but from the power power of sin, which would include the consistent ability to not sin.
Rom 6 says that we are now united together with Christ in the likeness of His death and in the likeness of His resurrection as signified by our baptism. We are dead to sin but alive to God in Christ. We are now under Grace. set free from sin, and slaves of righteousness.
Paul starts chapter 7 with a theme begun in chapter 6, being dead! In chapter 6, we dead to sin so how can we live any longer in it, but in chapter 7, we have died to our old husband, the law. Paul then takes a walk back in time and personalizes how the law and the sin nature affects our lives and leaves us dead in our sin and in need of a savior. It is a final recapitulation that the law is not the mean of our salvation, Christ is!
Rom 7 says that now we have been delivered from the law so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not by the letter of the law. That was the Pharisees' stumbling block. Furthermore, it was not that the Law was evil, it was holy but we are all sold under sin and that there is nothing that the law could do about that. On top of all that, Paul goes on to explain how he has a propensity to sin in his members. "O wretched man that I am [not was]! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
The solution is sin is Christ! The means of living in that freedom is through the Spirit not the sinful nature, the flesh to which we have died. (I get what you’re saying, I just think expressing the details gives it a slightly different vibe.)
Rom 8 offers the solution to the issues mentioned in Rom 7: that we must not walk according to the fleshly desires but according to the Spirit. Paul fluidly mentions "the Spirit", the "Spirit of God", the Spirit of Christ", "Christ in you" which is all one and the same for Trinitarian believers. Paul ends the chapter by encouraging all Christians to persevere by abiding in the Spirit because God has predestined believers to glory and nothing can separate us from His love.
There is fluidity, with this I fully agree!
There is fluidity indeed.
 
Last edited:
On top of all that, Paul goes on to explain how he has a propensity to sin in his members. "O wretched man that I am [not was]! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
So the Apostle Paul was teaching the Romans that they were dead to sin and could no longer live any longer in it, but Paul himself was, at the same time, sold as a slave to sin and a prisoner thereof insomuch that he was incapable of doing the good that he wanted to do! Is that what you’re saying?

Doug
 
So no JOG, there is nothing to replace. A Jew is now, and has always been, and will always be those who "do the works of Abraham".
Abraham was 430 years before the law! The work of Abraham was believing that God would do what he promised to do. No dietary restrictions or ceremonial laws. Just pack up and follow me to the land I will show you, and I will make a great nation out of you! “And Abraham believed, and it was counted as righteousness!”

Thus, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works of the law, for by the works of the law will no man be justified! Whoever believes in him; not whoever abstains from shrimp cocktail at the Chinese buffet!

The kingdom of God isn’t about food or drink; but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit! This means that “righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” doesn’t have anything to do with food or drink!


Doug
 
Last edited:
On top of all that, Paul goes on to explain how he has a propensity to sin in his members. "O wretched man that I am [not was]! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Paul is speaking of the unconverted Saul in a present tense matter. Of his life under the law as his master! It is a literary device, not an actual reality of the day he penned those words!

Doug
 
So the Apostle Paul was teaching the Romans that they were dead to sin and could no longer live any longer in it, but Paul himself was, at the same time, sold as a slave to sin and a prisoner thereof insomuch that he was incapable of doing the good that he wanted to do! Is that what you’re saying?

Doug
Apostle Paul is exhorting Believers to chose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Both are real options for all Believers and everyone must choose wisely. Christ has paid the price for our redemption and we can choose to live by the Spirit.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
 
Apostle Paul is exhorting Believers to chose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Both are real options for all Believers and everyone must choose wisely. Christ has paid the price for our redemption and we can choose to live by the Spirit.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
This is the way I view it as well. I think those last few verses of chapter 7 where good brethren here have a difference of opinion if we all agree with these verses here (the Rom 8 ones) which I think we do then it takes care of it all. All believe here it's possible to yield to the flesh or to walk in the Spirit.
 
This is the way I view it as well. I think those last few verses of chapter 7 where good brethren here have a difference of opinion if we all agree with these verses here (the Rom 8 ones) which I think we do then it takes care of it all. All believe here it's possible to yield to the flesh or to walk in the Spirit.
In the US, we have a Baseball Umpire saying that goes like this: "I call 'em as I sees them". That's my goal even though it has forced me to radically and fundamentally reassess what I believe many times in my life. Of course my vision is not perfect so I bank on others' views to test my views.

Judging from your photo, I believe you're Australian. I've been to your country several times and it's absolutely gorgeous.
 
Apostle Paul is exhorting Believers to chose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Both are real options for all Believers and everyone must choose wisely. Christ has paid the price for our redemption and we can choose to live by the Spirit.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
I agree completely, but this doesn’t answer the contradiction I posed to you.

Doug
 
So the Apostle Paul was teaching the Romans that they were dead to sin and could no longer live any longer in it,
Apostle Paul is exhorting Believers to choose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. They are now capable of no longer living in sin if they choose to live by the Spirit and continue to do so.
but Paul himself was, at the same time, sold as a slave to sin and a prisoner thereof insomuch that he was incapable of doing the good that he wanted to do! Is that what you’re saying?
He's incapable of doing the good by himself alone. It's only by living in the Spirit that doing the good is possible. So just like everyone else in his audience, Paul needs to choose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh.
 
Circumstances do count. If a baby is aborted, is it his fault that he never learned about the 10 Commandments? Gentiles were under different circumstances as were Jews and as we as Christians are right now. So there are not just 2 groups. There are at least 3 main groups with at least a billion subgroups. God is always just and fair. He doesn't penalize you for that which you have no control over.

Again, I am speaking to what Paul is actually saying. There are "many" who come in Christ's Name, who preach that God judged men according to the DNA they were born with. I posted Paul's words for your review, there are many more, that exposes this teaching as false. Men create groups, men create walls of separation. There is only ONE Church of God.

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Jesus, "of the Bible", says offenses must come. We live in an evil world the same as Abraham and Caleb and Zacharias. We are surrounded with evil. I think it's important not to let the evil distract us from "Seeking first the Kingdom of "GOD", and HIS Righteousness", as Jesus instructs. That way we don't get drawn into the affairs of this world.


Gentiles will be judged under the circumstances they found themselves under. They will be judged at least according to their conscience.

Again, for me it's important to let God Himself, though HIS Inspired Word, instruct me as to how HE judges. That is why I posted the Scriptures for review and examination and hopefully discussion as to what is said.

What you wrote is what I meant by legalism. The Pharisees obeyed the letter of the law, not the Spirit of the law.

That is what some preachers who call Jesus Lord, Lord promote. But when a person actually reads what is actually written, the Pharisees "Full well rejected" the Letter of the Law, so they could keep their own manmade traditions, their own manmade judgments, their own manmade righteousness.

I know we have been taught by preachers in the synagogues and in the streets since our youth, that the Pharisees obeyed God's Law trying to please God or earn favor. This teaching is a deception, a falsehood, a lie. We are told to "take heed" of these deceivers who come in Christ's Name, to test the spirits, and prove all things. To believe the Pharisees were keeping the letter of the law is to deny "EVERY" Word Jesus spoke about them. I posted God's Inspired Word through Isaiah which defined them. But no one seemed to care.

Now there were members of God's church that the Jews persecuted, who did obey God's Law. You can read about them in the Law and Prophets, as well as Luke 1 & 2.


I'm trying to get a handle on where we deviate and why. I think you're trying to group everything under one umbrella which is the Law. What's your opinion on where we deviate? My "umbrella" is Christ. The Law Giver is, by definition at least, much much greater than the Law.

Thanks for the question. The answer as to why men deviate from God is probably the easiest question to answer. We can look at the examples Paul said were written for our admonition. Why did Eve deviate? Is it not because she listened to a voice, who professed to know God, but by his works denied Him? And in every case, every example in the Scriptures of men who deviated, turned away from God's instruction, and walked in their own. "EVERY" time a man deviated is because they heard, but didn't "DO" what was instructed by God.

EVERY TIME.

Jesus didn't deviate even once. How did HE do this? According to His Own Words, "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Jesus speaks of " Many Christians" in Matt. 7. These Christians called Him their Savior, they taught in His Name, they helped others in His Name and did "many" wonderful works, all in Jesus' Name.

But what does Jesus tell them? And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you": depart from me, ye that "work iniquity".

God's LAW is the Armor HE gives us to withstand the wicked influences of this world, including its religions "Who profess to know Him". We are instructed to "put the armor on".

But we have deceiving voices in the garden God places us in, just as Eve did, who promote philosophies like "God's Law only brings death", "Obedience to God is a false gospel", "God placed a Yoke of Bondage on the necks of men who trusted in Him", "God judge's men according to the DNA they were born with", and on and on and on.

In the Bible, when men adopted these deceiving voices, like Eve and the Pharisees did, they deviate from the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, the Law giver.

But in the same Bible, those who, like Zacharias, Abraham, Simeon, Caleb and EVERY example of Faith, who were "Doers" of God's Laws, and not hearers only, they and their family were blessed, as God promised. This has been true from the very beginning.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I know this world's religions preach against this "Way of the Lord" but I learned the lesson of the example of Eve, so I take God and His Son's instruction seriously, and as a result, I don't adopt these deceptions.

2 Cor. 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Great question.
 
I’m going to have to disagree with you for several reasons:

1) Scripture doesn’t define taste and drink with this differentiation. When God says “taste and see that the Lord is good” he wasn’t seeking for us to have a taste test and receive a coupon for a complete meal! Jesus said we had to both eat/taste and drink his flesh and blood to have life.

Taste and drink are parallel analogies for experiencing the grace of God in a genuine way.

2) “Being made partakes of the Holy Spirit” is not a happenstance event. The human participant in this is passive; we are “made partakers”, which means God is acting upon us, giving us the Holy Spirit.

3) One cannot fall from a non-relational standing with someone. I can’t be divorced if I’ve never been married; can’t break-up with someone I’m not dating.

4) You cannot be renewed to a repentance you haven’t once had, or a relationship that you have never been in.


Doug

Surprise.... Wesley speaks again....

1. Anyone can recognize the difference between tasting (small portion) and eating "much larger portion" of anything. Doesn't matter what you have to say about it. It is common sense. Your characterization is self serving and deceptive.

2. No. Acting upon some and gifting the Holy Spirit in the new birth is entirely different. Grace is a work of God. God has been gracious to every single human being.

3. Humanity is purposed for redemption. God didn't create humanity to cast them into hell at "His good pleasure". I've told you many times now that there is very little difference between Calvinism and Arminianism relative to a false dichotomy. No surprise. You actually believe God purposed the damnation of humanity.

4. Most every human being has many instances/chances/opportunity to follow through to repentance. However, there isn't any other means whereby to actually repent. Your position actually robs the individual from the possibility of future repentance. Congratulations. You've relegated these "poor souls" to damnation without recourse. Thanks for continuing to show just how Calvinistic you actually are.
 
And where does Paul say this? There is nothing in Romans that says or even suggests that he giving a “lite” version of teaching that he will expand upon later. Maybe that’s why we fail to recognize it; it never happened!

I suppose you've never elaborated upon anything you've ever said......... Geesh...

Read again.....

Rom 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
 
Abraham was 430 years before the law! The work of Abraham was believing that God would do what he promised to do. No dietary restrictions or ceremonial laws. Just pack up and follow me to the land I will show you, and I will make a great nation out of you! “And Abraham believed, and it was counted as righteousness!”

Thus, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works of the law, for by the works of the law will no man be justified! Whoever believes in him; not whoever abstains from shrimp cocktail at the Chinese buffet!

The kingdom of God isn’t about food or drink; but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit! This means that “righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” doesn’t have anything to do with food or drink!


Doug

There is no such thing as "ceremonial and dietary laws". To a Jew, it has always been just "law". Those are man made distinctions you're referencing.

Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.

The law was ADDED for a reason. Abraham didn't need a "law" to guide him. He had BETTER. He had God personally to lead Him.

You're struggling with this religion you have that keeps you from being lead of the Spirit of God.
 
Apostle Paul is exhorting Believers to choose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. They are now capable of no longer living in sin if they choose to live by the Spirit and continue to do so.
In my opinion, while you have spoken truth, it is dynamically more than this. Paul is saying that because of being set free from sin’s dominion, sin is no longer compatible with life in Christ. We are not just capable of not sinning we are compelled to stop sinning.


He's incapable of doing the good by himself alone. It's only by living in the Spirit that doing the good is possible. So just like everyone else in his audience, Paul needs to choose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh.
I disagree! Paul never mentions the Spirit in Ron 7. And it is not the sinful nature that he trying to live by, but rather the law; which the sinful nature prohibits him from doing. Living by the sinful nature is why we can’t live by the law, though that is what he desperately wants to do.

Again, Rom 7 is all about incapacity and utter failure of life by means of the law. Paul’s circumstance is total bondage and incarceration to sin. That is not the Christian condition. It is not just a procedural issue of how we live our lives, it it a constitutional question of our being. Paul was, before Christ, a prisoner to sin.

Christ, however is the remedy to our body of death situation. And after Christ, we emerge into chapter 8. And in this, I think we’re on the same page.


Doug
 
Apostle Paul is exhorting Believers to choose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. They are now capable of no longer living in sin if they choose to live by the Spirit and continue to do so.

He's incapable of doing the good by himself alone. It's only by living in the Spirit that doing the good is possible. So just like everyone else in his audience, Paul needs to choose to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh.

Capable but incapable of consistently live in such a manner as to avoid sinning entirely. Even John was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's day.

This is why we are commanded to "confess our sins" to one another...... and "forgive one another".......

Sin should humble us. I'm not saying that God has purposed sin to humble us. I am saying that God has chosen the weak things to confound the wise. The base things to humble the mighty that we might all Glory fully in Him. To really know what it means to be without Him. To be left to ourselves that we might know our limits.

Humbling ourselves is a much better choice.
 
Abraham was 430 years before the law!

What Law?

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes were given to Abraham, and Abraham obeyed them, at least according to my God and Jesus' God.

So Yes, there was a Law "ADDED" because of Transgression, "till the Seed should come". According to what is written, it was the Levitical Priesthood offerings and sacrifices for sin, that was "ADDED".

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways "that I have commanded you", that it may be well unto you.

There was no Law given that required a man to bring a goat for his sins, and kill it before a Levite Priest in the day God led Israel out of Egypt, you can read for yourself, if you are interested in Biblical Truth.

But Israel "Transgressed" with the Golden Calf, so God ADDED a LAW concerning sacrifices and offerings for sin that wasn't commanded to them in the day HE led them out of Egypt. This is the "Added" Law that led men to Christ for remission of their sins. (The true unblemished sacrifice)

As God defines for us in His promise of a New covenant.

Heb. 8: 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities "will I remember no more".

A New Priesthood as Prophesied, changed from what was ADDED 430 years after Abraham.

Heb. 10: 3 But in those sacrifices there is "a remembrance again made of sins every year". 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

So the implication of your preaching, that God didn't give Abraham His Judgments, Statutes, Commandments and Laws, until 430 years after him is proved to be false, according to what God Himself says. Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, as Levi wasn't even born yet. Abraham was justified "Apart" from the Law "ADDED" because of Transgressions.

The deceiver would have men believe Abraham didn't know God, or His Judgments as to what is clean and what is not. What was Holy, what Day God sanctified and made Holy, etc. Noah did, but somehow not Abraham. There is nothing in scriptures which support this gospel.
 
Back
Top Bottom