He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

Jesus' statement in John 3:6 is the answer to Nicodemus' question about a man entering a second time into his mother's womb and be born. Being born again has nothing whatsoever to do with physical birth.

To be born again (v.3) is described as born of water and Spirit (v.5). To be born again is a rebirth of the spirit. To be born of water and Spirit is a rebirth of the spirit. And that has nothing to do with amniotic fluid.
 
I didn't say that. What I profess is that the spirit you receive from God when you are born [or even before that] is alive and well. You, your spirit, is not dead in trespasses and sins until such time that you commit a sin; that is, you knowingly and willingly disobey God in any way whatsoever.

Alright. I quasi-agree with this but at what age do pseople "know" they have disobeyed God? Should it be declared every time you are turned over a parents knee? Most kids would not understand they were on the outs unless they are told. That hold true of most teenagers, perhaps even into college who may well. by then have had their immersions, but don't understand they are an affront to God in much that they do. That also might not be until they are in their 20s.....


It is at that time that you become a sinner and need to be reborn. That is, you, your spirit, had become dead and you needed to be made alive again.

I don't think you fully understand what it means to have your sins forgiven.

Yes, I do. We simply do not view the reasons for baptism the same.
That is not something that God does after each occurrence of you committing a sin.

Perhaps not, but I would never not ask for forgiveness after I realized I have committed a sin no matter where I felt I stood with the Heavenly Father. That has been ingrained in me for longer then I can remember....
To have your sins forgiven is a change in your standing before God.

Understood... but people till sin.
That standing before God is called justification; you have been counted, declared, righteous. It is a state of being, not a condition that you exit each time you commit a sin and then reenter when God forgives the sin.

To not acknowledge a known sin don't accidentally or even deliberately by prayer for forgiveness is a slap in God's face.


When you hear the word about Christ, believe in God, in Jesus Christ, in the gospel, confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and are [water] baptized, God forgives you. You have been forgiven. You have been justified. You have been declared righteous. You standing before God has been changed. Given all of that, it is God that forgives you, not hearing, not believing, not confessing, not being baptized. It is God, and only God, who saves you. All that leads up to God's saving you are conditions which God has placed upon you as a sinner to be granted His grace of being saved.
Do any adult baptism dedicate the person to God, the Heavenly Father, for His keeping?

Do not jump on me for asking that . I am just curious.
 
Alright. I quasi-agree with this but at what age do pseople "know" they have disobeyed God? Should it be declared every time you are turned over a parents knee? Most kids would not understand they were on the outs unless they are told. That hold true of most teenagers, perhaps even into college who may well. by then have had their immersions, but don't understand they are an affront to God in much that they do. That also might not be until they are in their 20s.....
The age varies for different individuals. And yes, it is dependent upon an understanding of God's law and the consequences of disobedience of God's law. Our God-given law code is an aspect of our relationship with God as creature to Creator. As our sovereign Creator and Lord, our God has revealed to us a host of instructions as to how we are supposed to live. These instructions may take many forms, including imperatives or commandments. We are under absolute obligation to obey those that apply to us in this New Covenant era; this obligation will never change throughout our lifetime. These instructions tell us how we are supposed to relate to other human beings, and how we are supposed to relate to God (e.g., the form our worship should take).

Where do we find this revealed law code? Several places. First, the general moral law code for all human beings is written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15) as an aspect of our being created in the image of God. This means we have an innate knowledge of basic morality. The effects of sin upon our hearts, however (Jeremiah 17:9), corrupt our ability to correctly access this knowledge. This is why God has also given us specially revealed knowledge of His law in the Bible.

I could say a lot more about this, but perhaps that is enough for now.
Yes, I do. We simply do not view the reasons for baptism the same.
OK, fair enough.
Perhaps not, but I would never not ask for forgiveness after I realized I have committed a sin no matter where I felt I stood with the Heavenly Father. That has been ingrained in me for longer then I can remember....
I agree, but such repentance is not for the purpose of being saved. It is the contrite behavior of one who has been saved.
Understood... but people till sin.
Yes but hopefully less and less as they mature. That is what sanctification is all about.
To not acknowledge a known sin don't accidentally or even deliberately by prayer for forgiveness is a slap in God's face.
I agree.
Do any adult baptism dedicate the person to God, the Heavenly Father, for His keeping?

Do not jump on me for asking that . I am just curious.
No, baptism is not a means of dedication. The baptism event is that time in the life of the repentant believer when God accepts him as one of His own. In terms of a dedication, it is the time, the occasion, of such a dedication.

I don't ever intentionally jump on you for asking any question. There are some for whom I might be rightly accused of that, but not you @FreeInChrist.
 
Did your physical birth take place in an instant? Of course it did. Even your birth certificate informs you of the exact minute when you were born. The same is true with the new birth. In fact, this is another reason why Jesus compares the new birth with childbirth. There is an exact moment when the Holy Spirit enters into you and you become a new creature in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17 And no, it is NOT when you get baptized. That happens after being born again. As the song says: "I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind, but now I see."

No, Matthew 28:19 does not refute that truth. Making a disciple STARTS when a person is born again, but that is just the beginning of the process, just as Peter said in 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2. A new believer is like a "newborn baby", who knows nothing except his mother and his father's love. He must be nourished with the "pure milk of the word". He must be cared for, loved, fed, taught, so that he can grow up to one day become a mature Christian. That is the process of discipling.

Your obsession with baptism has blinded you to the truth.

Once again, you have ignored 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2, where Peter proves that being born again has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CHILDBIRTH.

Apparently you can't explain that away, because so far you don't seem to want to even touch those verses.
 
Did your physical birth take place in an instant? Of course it did. Even your birth certificate informs you of the exact minute when you were born. The same is true with the new birth. In fact, this is another reason why Jesus compares the new birth with childbirth. There is an exact moment when the Holy Spirit enters into you and you become a new creature in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17 And no, it is NOT when you get baptized. That happens after being born again. As the song says: "I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind, but now I see."
Again you are almost correct. There is indeed a particular moment, an exact time at which we go from being lost to being saved, when we are spiritually born again. And Scripture tells us exactly when that moment is, although not in 2 Cor 5:17. That passage simply tells us that there is indeed a change. But Acts 22:16, 1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:3-5, Col 11:12, Mark 16:16, and several other passages tell us that we are reborn in water baptism, not before.
No, Matthew 28:19 does not refute that truth. Making a disciple STARTS when a person is born again, but that is just the beginning of the process, just as Peter said in 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2.
Making a disciple starts long before someone is born again. A disciple is simply a follower, a learner. It does not have ANYTHING to do with whether or not the person is born again. Notice that the men in the beginning of Acts 19 were called disciples, but they didn't know about Jesus, they didn't know about the Holy Spirit, they had not been baptized into Christ, but had only received John's baptism. They were not saved by any measure, yet they are called disciples by God's Scripture.
Once again, you have ignored 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2, where Peter proves that being born again has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CHILDBIRTH.
"for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.... and like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,"
In what way do these verses "PROVE" that being born again has ANYTHING to do with childbirth? Yes, a newly reborn person is like an infant in that they require a diet of milk instead of meat. But that has nothing to do with what it takes to become born again.
We are reborn because of the imperishable Seed (the Gospel of Jesus), not perishable seed (sperm). We are reborn because of the grace and desire of God, not of a man. We are born again when our sins are washed away (Acts 22:16), when the Spirit cuts our sin from us (Col 22:11-14), when the Spirit resurrects us just as He did Jesus (Rom 6:4-5), when the Spirit makes us children of God and clothes us with Christ (Gal 3:26-27), when we are washed clean of all spots, blemishes, and made holy (Eph 5:26-27). All of this happens when we are baptized in water.
 
To Doug Brents,
Actually I was responding to Jim, but apparently you're answering for him.

You said: And Scripture tells us exactly when that moment is (when we're born again), although not in 2 Cor 5:17.

Wrong, That verse tells us exactly when that moment occurs, when we are in Christ. That is when we put repent of our sins and put our faith in Him.
One moment we're lost, the next moment we're in Christ.

Acts 22:16 Ananias was too late. Saul had already had his sins washed away by faith in Jesus. When Jesus appeared to Him, He told Saul that he would, among other things, open the eyes of the Gentiles that they may receive forgiveness of sins.

Obviously he couldn't lead others to having their sins forgiven unless he himself was forgiven.

Also Saul had already called on the name of the Lord. Verse 22:10 "Who are You, Lord?" and "What shall I do Lord?"

However, he had not yet been baptized, so Ananias baptized him.

It is through your misinterpreting of all those verses, your go-to verses in Acts, Peter, Romans, Col., and Mark, that you come up with the mistaken interpretation that we are born again at water baptism.
 
Why we must be born again from BAM's Blog

 
Once again, you have ignored 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2, where Peter proves that being born again has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CHILDBIRTH.

Apparently you can't explain that away, because so far you don't seem to want to even touch those verses.
1 Peter 1:23 says that being born again is not of perishable seed. That is, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH CHILDBIRTH, which is by the perishable seed of the parents.

1 Peter 2:2 is all about sanctification, not about justification nor regeneration.
 
To Doug Brents,
Actually I was responding to Jim, but apparently you're answering for him.
Your response? was not addressed to anyone. It appeared to be a general comment, with no predecessor. I am not answering for Jim.
You said: And Scripture tells us exactly when that moment is (when we're born again), although not in 2 Cor 5:17.

Wrong, That verse tells us exactly when that moment occurs, when we are in Christ. That is when we put repent of our sins and put our faith in Him.
One moment we're lost, the next moment we're in Christ.
Repentance does not put us in Christ. It is a step in the right direction, but it is possible (actually it happens all the time) that someone can repent (turn away from doing wrong) but not enter into Christ.
Acts 22:16 Ananias was too late. Saul had already had his sins washed away by faith in Jesus. When Jesus appeared to Him, He told Saul that he would, among other things, open the eyes of the Gentiles that they may receive forgiveness of sins.
Just because God would open the eyes of the Gentiles to forgiveness of sin through Saul did not mean that Saul was at that moment already forgiven. God told Ananias what to say, and it was God's words that Ananias spoke to Saul. And among those words of God were the command to arise and be baptized in order to have his sins washed away. Quit rewriting Scripture to fit your preconceptions.
Also Saul had already called on the name of the Lord. Verse 22:10 "Who are You, Lord?" and "What shall I do Lord?"
Just saying the name of the Lord, or calling Jesus "Lord" does not save (Matt 7:21-23).
However, he had not yet been baptized, so Ananias baptized him.
And salvation is received DURING water baptism (1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, and others).
 
Your response? was not addressed to anyone. It appeared to be a general comment, with no predecessor. I am not answering for Jim.

Repentance does not put us in Christ. It is a step in the right direction, but it is possible (actually it happens all the time) that someone can repent (turn away from doing wrong) but not enter into Christ.

Just because God would open the eyes of the Gentiles to forgiveness of sin through Saul did not mean that Saul was at that moment already forgiven. God told Ananias what to say, and it was God's words that Ananias spoke to Saul. And among those words of God were the command to arise and be baptized in order to have his sins washed away. Quit rewriting Scripture to fit your preconceptions.

Just saying the name of the Lord, or calling Jesus "Lord" does not save (Matt 7:21-23).

And salvation is received DURING water baptism (1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, and others).
Water baptism can not save you.

Justification by faith alone


The Bible is clear that you are saved simply by repentance and faith in Christ:

Romans 4:3-5 - For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

Romans 10:8-10 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 3:23–26 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 15:8-9 - And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Philippians 3:8-9 - Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.

Galatians 3:5-6 - Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith - just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

2 Timothy 1:9 - 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Acts 10:47 - “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Notice how so many passages teach that one is saved just by believing (and where baptism is not even mentioned). Also notice how some passages even explicitly teach that one receives the Spirit and is regenerated just by hearing the gospel, even when they haven’t been baptized yet (Acts 10; Ephesians 1; etc.).

What about passages that seem to say that baptism “saves?”

There are 5 passages in the New Testament that some people will point to to say that baptism is necessary for salvation and regeneration. Now, there are other passages that talk about baptism generally, but these are the big ones regarding “salvation.” Let’s address each one in turn:

Mark 16:16 - Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

First, this passage is not actually in the Bible. The long ending of Mark 16 isn’t in our oldest and best manuscripts. Mark 16 actually ends at verse 8. Remember, “the Bible” isn’t what you think the Bible is in your English translation. Rather the wording of the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts is “the Bible” and your English Bible is inspired to the degree that it accurately reflects the best manuscripts we have. Your English translators put the long ending of Mark in big brackets to show that this passage’s authenticity has a dubious status. If you want more info on this check out our resources on textual criticism here. Second, let’s notice what the text actually says. It says that anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved (which everyone agrees with), and it says that those who don’t believe will be condemned. Notice that the issue of someone who believes, but hasn’t gotten around to baptism yet isn’t addressed at all. If the author wanted to say that baptism was necessary for salvation he would have said “…but whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned.” Notice the phrase “and is not baptized” is not in the text. It is a logical fallacy (called “denying the antecedent”) to assume a premise that is not in the text. For example, If I say “If its raining outside, the grass will be wet,” you cannot then logically conclude that “If it’s not raining outside, the grass won’t be wet”; perhaps the grass is wet due to the sprinklers or the dew that morning! In the same way you can’t take a text that says, “whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,” and turn it around to say, “whoever does believe but hasn’t been baptized yet will not be saved.” The passage simply doesn’t comment on the fate of a person who does believe the gospel and then gets hit by a bus before being baptized.

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

What does it mean to be “born of water?” What does the “water” refer to? Well, it can’t refer to natural birth (amniotic fluid being the “water”) because (1) we don’t have any Greek manuscripts that I know of calling natural birth being “born of water.” That is more of a modern, scientific idea. (2) That would mean that babies that die in the womb aren’t saved because they haven’t been physically born, i.e. “born of water.” So does the phrase “born of water” refer to baptism? No. It refers to the prophetic hope of being sprinkled/washed clean by the Spirit in the Old Testament. Ezekiel 36:25-27 says:

“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.”

Jesus is saying that if one wants to be saved, they have to experience the new birth mentioned in Ezekiel where God cleanses and regenerates.

This interpretation is superior to the “baptism” interpretation for the following reasons:

1. The Ezekiel passage represents both being born again of the Spirit and having your heart washed with the Spirit’s power like water.

2. Jesus corrects Nicodemus for not knowing about this passage that he, as “a teacher of Israel,” should know. This makes since if Jesus is referencing a passage in the Old Testament that Nicodemus should have known. It makes no sense for Jesus to rebuke Nicodemus for not knowing about Christian baptism.

3. “Water” in the book of John is a constant metaphor for the Holy Spirit (for example, Jesus tells the woman at the well that God will give her “living water” etc.).

4. Jesus plays on words several times in this passage (for example he uses the same Greek word for “wind” and “Spirit” in his conversation with Nicodemus), so it is conceivable that he is using additional non-literal imagery here when talking about water.

5. It would have made no sense to Jesus to tell Nicodemus that he has to be baptized because Jesus hasn’t died for sins yet, and “John’s baptism” is not the same as Christian baptism (see Acts 19:1-7).

6. The Greek word “kai” doesn’t just mean “and.” It also can mean “also,” “even,” “namely,” or a host of other things. The phrase could be saying be “born of water, namely the Spirit.” There is a parallel here to Titus 3:5-6 where the Spirit’s work is likened to the effects of water, though it is the Spirit, and not the water, who really does the cleansing.

7. The idea of the Spirit cleansing like water was also a popular theme in Judaism. In the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1QS (also called the “Community Rule”) 4:20-21 says, “Then God will purify the deeds of man by his truth and he will cleanse the frame of man. He will eradicate the perverse spirit from within his flesh, and cleanse him by the Holy Spirit from all his wicked deeds.”

8. This phrase is probably a hendiadys. A hendiadys is where two words describe the same thing. If I say, “I am grateful for my wife’s love and affection,” that doesn’t mean that I’m talking about two separate things (love and affection). I am using two different words (love and affection) to talk about one thing, which is my wife’s feelings for me. Or if I say, “despite the rain and weather,” the rain and weather are not two separate things, but one reality: “rainy weather.” In the same way, the Spirit and water are probably supposed to be referring to the same reality: new life.

9. There are several people who are saved/forgiven in the gospels who don’t get baptized. But this would be impossible if Jesus is telling Nicodemus that one must be baptized to be saved. This statement comes before the woman who cries at Jesus’s feet or the criminal on the cross, for example. To say it another way, if Jesus is saying baptism is necessary for salvation, then everyone who lives after he says that statement has to be baptized. Yet several are saved after he says this statement without ever being baptized.

So, I think a good way to understand what Jesus is saying is, “how do you, Nicodemus, a teacher of the law, not realize that one must receive the kind of birth that Ezekiel prophesied about? You need your heart sprinkled clean (water) and you need your heart changed (Spirit).”

1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ…

Notice what this passages says actually saves. Not the water! Peter is drawing parallels from the gospel and he is linking it back to the story of Noah which is why water is even mentioned at all. But the text explicitly says that it is not the physical act of baptism (“not as a removal of dirt from the body”) but it is explicitly the faith of the person that saves (the “appeal to God for a good conscience”).

This passage says that the baptism is not what saves but the appeal to God in faith for salvation (symbolized by being delivered through the waters of judgment like Noah’s family was). To try to take this passage, pull it out of its symbolic context, and ignore everything else the New Testament says about justification is a serious misinterpretation of this text.

Peter’s point is that converting and turning to Christ is what keeps you from being judged like the people who were judged by water in Noah’s day.

Acts 2:38 - And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And


Acts 9:17 - So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

I’ll address these last two verses together since my explanation for them is the same.

1. First notice that the first text does not say that those who believe and are not baptized are not saved (again, the logical fallacy of “denying the antecedent”). And neither of these texts say “if one isn’t baptized then they cannot have the Spirit.” They simply comment on the fact that one should believe and be baptized.

2. But the biggest thing to note is that the word “baptism” in these verses serves as a metonymy.

What is a metonymy?!

(Now, pay attention to this next part because it was this following argument that finally freed me from my baptismal legalism.)

The Metonymy of “baptism”

A metonymy is where one thing is represented by something that is closely related to it. If I say, “the White House said…” then I have used a metonymy. The White House can’t say anything. It is a building. The “White House” is a way to refer to the president or one of his associates. Or if I use the old adage that, “the pen is mightier than the sword.” I have used two metonymies. The word “pen” refers to ideas and the word “sword” refers to physical force. Notice how “pen” and “sword” serve as representatives for things they are closely related to.

This is how baptism is often discussed in the New Testament. It’s not that doing a water ritual is what makes you and God cool. It is faith alone in Christ alone which makes you and God cool. But the word “baptism” is used to represent the event of someone becoming a believer (God and a person being reconciled).

Any time the Bible says baptism saves, it is using the term “baptism” as a metonymy. Baptism doesn’t really save anymore than the building known as the “white house” talks. It is a stand-in for trusting Christ.

Allow me to illustrate this further.

If someone is tempted to cheat on their wife and I say, “you should be faithful because you put a ring on her finger.” Notice that it is not the “ring” that makes them married (some married people don’t wear wedding rings and other people who are not married wear rings on their fingers). What I am doing is using the word “ring” as a metonymy. I’m using it to refer to what actually made them married (vows, the pronouncement of the minister, consummation, etc.). The Bible will often use the concept of “baptism” like I use the word “ring.” Baptism doesn’t save you, but it is a way to refer to what actually does save you (the grace of God in Christ through faith). In the same way the Bible says that a woman is “saved” through childbearing (1 Tim 2:15), Does this mean that a woman must have a physical child in order to be saved? Should we ignore everything the Bible says about being saved by faith and Christ and say, “but the Bible says childbearing saves?” No, we should realize that “childbearing,” like baptism, is a metonymy for a bigger reality; it is a metonymy for being a godly woman.

Additional problems with thinking baptism saves you

In addition to all the biblical evidence above, there are a lot of other theological problems that come along with thinking baptism regenerates you:

1. There are people in the Bible who are saved and have the Spirit who have not been baptized (see especially Acts 10:44-48).

2. There are people who get baptized and aren’t saved. Not only do we see this all the time in our day-to-day lives (we all know people who were baptized but now live like the devil), but we may even see this with the case of Simon the Magician in the book of Acts. What do you do when someone has been baptized but still seems unchanged? Do you just keep dunking them, hoping that one will take? No. What they need is true saving faith.

3. The criminal on the cross was saved though he wasn’t baptized. Now, some will point out that he’s under the Old Covenant and therefore doesn’t need baptism, but that misses the point because (1) the whole point is that he is receiving unmerited grace that requires no action on his part. (2) If he is under the Old Covenant then he has to offer animal sacrifices, clean himself at the temple, obey the Mosaic Law, etc. – all things he obviously isn’t doing. (3) And Jesus’ statement about how you must be “born of water” is said beforethe criminal dies on the cross. Whether he is in the Old or New Covenant, he still gets saved by grace. That’s the whole point of that text.

4. Baptism is something you do and therefore, whether you like the phrase or not, it is a “work,” and the Bible clearly demonstrates that we are not saved by anything we perform (Ephesians 2:8-10). We are not saved by any action or ritual that we can do.

5. This would mean that babies who die in infancy go to hell. Follow the logic here: if baptism is necessary for salvation and children are born sinful (Psalm 51:5; Romans 3:9-20; Ephesians 2:1-3) then you have to hold that they are lost. If you believe that God can save them by grace, then you don’t have to hold this view. There is no “age of accountability” other than the age they are at conception. (For more on this topic, read our blog “What Happens To Infants When They Die?”)

6. If baptism is necessary, then it’s necessary every time. You cannot say that God can still save a child or save someone who hasn’t been baptized “if he wants,” and also say baptism is “necessary.” They are mutually exclusive. You can’t say baptism is necessary, but then say that God can still save someone without it. If he can, then it’s not necessary.

7. What if someone didn’t get all the way under the water? What if the minister who baptized them later becomes apostate? If baptism is necessary for salvation and you don’t do it right, you might go to hell for not practicing the ordinance perfectly. That seems to assume that man was made for baptism and not baptism for man.

Conclusion

Now, don’t get me wrong. Baptism is super important. It is commanded of every Christian. If you have not been biblically baptized, you are walking in sin. Baptism is not optional. If someone just refused to be baptized, I would call their salvation into question; not because baptism saves you, but rather they are claiming that they love Christ while refusing to obey him.

At the same time, we must always guard the sacred doctrine of justification by faith alone. God elects, God calls, God regenerates, God justifies, God sanctifies, God resurrects. God, and God alone saves you, and your response to that grace is not the same thing as the grace itself. It’s important to recognize that as you are commanded to be baptized, you can rejoice in the fact that you are justified and regenerated before you ever get wet.

 
Water baptism can not save you.

Justification by faith alone


The Bible is clear that you are saved simply by repentance and faith in Christ:

Romans 4:3-5 - For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

Romans 10:8-10 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 3:23–26 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 15:8-9 - And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Philippians 3:8-9 - Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.

Galatians 3:5-6 - Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith - just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

2 Timothy 1:9 - 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Acts 10:47 - “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Notice how so many passages teach that one is saved just by believing (and where baptism is not even mentioned). Also notice how some passages even explicitly teach that one receives the Spirit and is regenerated just by hearing the gospel, even when they haven’t been baptized yet (Acts 10; Ephesians 1; etc.).
While I could (and have) addressed all of these passages individually, suffice it to say that these are not the only passages that speak of what is required to be saved. And EVERY passage of Scripture that speaks of salvation must be considered when making our doctrine of salvation. As noted before, repentance is absolutely required to receive salvation, but that is not the only thing required. Above you cite Rom 10:9-10, but evidently you overlook the fact that there is a physical action specified in that passage that results in one receiving salvation: the verbal (and public (Matt 10:32)) confession of Jesus as Lord.

What about passages that seem to say that baptism “saves?”

There are 5 passages in the New Testament that some people will point to to say that baptism is necessary for salvation and regeneration. Now, there are other passages that talk about baptism generally, but these are the big ones regarding “salvation.” Let’s address each one in turn:

Mark 16:16 - Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

First, this passage is not actually in the Bible. The long ending of Mark 16 isn’t in our oldest and best manuscripts. Mark 16 actually ends at verse 8. Remember, “the Bible” isn’t what you think the Bible is in your English translation. Rather the wording of the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts is “the Bible” and your English Bible is inspired to the degree that it accurately reflects the best manuscripts we have. Your English translators put the long ending of Mark in big brackets to show that this passage’s authenticity has a dubious status. If you want more info on this check out our resources on textual criticism here. Second, let’s notice what the text actually says. It says that anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved (which everyone agrees with), and it says that those who don’t believe will be condemned. Notice that the issue of someone who believes, but hasn’t gotten around to baptism yet isn’t addressed at all. If the author wanted to say that baptism was necessary for salvation he would have said “…but whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned.” Notice the phrase “and is not baptized” is not in the text. It is a logical fallacy (called “denying the antecedent”) to assume a premise that is not in the text. For example, If I say “If its raining outside, the grass will be wet,” you cannot then logically conclude that “If it’s not raining outside, the grass won’t be wet”; perhaps the grass is wet due to the sprinklers or the dew that morning! In the same way you can’t take a text that says, “whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,” and turn it around to say, “whoever does believe but hasn’t been baptized yet will not be saved.” The passage simply doesn’t comment on the fate of a person who does believe the gospel and then gets hit by a bus before being baptized.
First off, I agree that this verse may (possibly) not be original to the Gospel written by Mark.
However, if it is original then the contention that it the phraseology does not indicate the necessity of baptism to be saved is false. While you are correct that the inverse of a positive is not always true, in this case there are many other passages that indicate that the inverse is, in fact, true.
John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

What does it mean to be “born of water?” What does the “water” refer to? Well, it can’t refer to natural birth (amniotic fluid being the “water”) because (1) we don’t have any Greek manuscripts that I know of calling natural birth being “born of water.” That is more of a modern, scientific idea. (2) That would mean that babies that die in the womb aren’t saved because they haven’t been physically born, i.e. “born of water.” So does the phrase “born of water” refer to baptism? No. It refers to the prophetic hope of being sprinkled/washed clean by the Spirit in the Old Testament. Ezekiel 36:25-27 says:

“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.”

Jesus is saying that if one wants to be saved, they have to experience the new birth mentioned in Ezekiel where God cleanses and regenerates.

This interpretation is superior to the “baptism” interpretation for the following reasons:

1. The Ezekiel passage represents both being born again of the Spirit and having your heart washed with the Spirit’s power like water.

2. Jesus corrects Nicodemus for not knowing about this passage that he, as “a teacher of Israel,” should know. This makes since if Jesus is referencing a passage in the Old Testament that Nicodemus should have known. It makes no sense for Jesus to rebuke Nicodemus for not knowing about Christian baptism.

3. “Water” in the book of John is a constant metaphor for the Holy Spirit (for example, Jesus tells the woman at the well that God will give her “living water” etc.).

4. Jesus plays on words several times in this passage (for example he uses the same Greek word for “wind” and “Spirit” in his conversation with Nicodemus), so it is conceivable that he is using additional non-literal imagery here when talking about water.

5. It would have made no sense to Jesus to tell Nicodemus that he has to be baptized because Jesus hasn’t died for sins yet, and “John’s baptism” is not the same as Christian baptism (see Acts 19:1-7).

6. The Greek word “kai” doesn’t just mean “and.” It also can mean “also,” “even,” “namely,” or a host of other things. The phrase could be saying be “born of water, namely the Spirit.” There is a parallel here to Titus 3:5-6 where the Spirit’s work is likened to the effects of water, though it is the Spirit, and not the water, who really does the cleansing.

7. The idea of the Spirit cleansing like water was also a popular theme in Judaism. In the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1QS (also called the “Community Rule”) 4:20-21 says, “Then God will purify the deeds of man by his truth and he will cleanse the frame of man. He will eradicate the perverse spirit from within his flesh, and cleanse him by the Holy Spirit from all his wicked deeds.”

8. This phrase is probably a hendiadys. A hendiadys is where two words describe the same thing. If I say, “I am grateful for my wife’s love and affection,” that doesn’t mean that I’m talking about two separate things (love and affection). I am using two different words (love and affection) to talk about one thing, which is my wife’s feelings for me. Or if I say, “despite the rain and weather,” the rain and weather are not two separate things, but one reality: “rainy weather.” In the same way, the Spirit and water are probably supposed to be referring to the same reality: new life.

9. There are several people who are saved/forgiven in the gospels who don’t get baptized. But this would be impossible if Jesus is telling Nicodemus that one must be baptized to be saved. This statement comes before the woman who cries at Jesus’s feet or the criminal on the cross, for example. To say it another way, if Jesus is saying baptism is necessary for salvation, then everyone who lives after he says that statement has to be baptized. Yet several are saved after he says this statement without ever being baptized.

So, I think a good way to understand what Jesus is saying is, “how do you, Nicodemus, a teacher of the law, not realize that one must receive the kind of birth that Ezekiel prophesied about? You need your heart sprinkled clean (water) and you need your heart changed (Spirit).”
While this is one of the best arguments against this passage that I have ever read or heard, it still falls way short of countering the truth about water baptism's necessity in salvation.
First off, as explained above, this passage is not the only passage that indicates water baptism's necessity. At the time that Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, baptism was not yet established as a necessity for salvation, so it may be that Jesus was referring back to Ezekiel's statement. But later in the life of Jesus, and especially after Jesus' ascension, baptism in water is repeatedly stated to be the point at which salvation is received.
1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ…

Notice what this passages says actually saves. Not the water! Peter is drawing parallels from the gospel and he is linking it back to the story of Noah which is why water is even mentioned at all. But the text explicitly says that it is not the physical act of baptism (“not as a removal of dirt from the body”) but it is explicitly the faith of the person that saves (the “appeal to God for a good conscience”).

This passage says that the baptism is not what saves but the appeal to God in faith for salvation (symbolized by being delivered through the waters of judgment like Noah’s family was). To try to take this passage, pull it out of its symbolic context, and ignore everything else the New Testament says about justification is a serious misinterpretation of this text.

Peter’s point is that converting and turning to Christ is what keeps you from being judged like the people who were judged by water in Noah’s day.
You are reading your preconceptions into this verse.
Read what it actually says here.
Baptism, which corresponds to this (this being the Flood waters) now saves you.... What saves? Baptism. And this baptism does not remove dirt from the flesh, it gives us a clear, clean conscience. How? Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (the Holy Spirit). Thus here you have both water and the Spirit as indicated in John 3:5.

Granted, the water does not remove sin. It is the Spirit who removes sin while we are in the water.
Acts 2:38 - And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And


Acts 9:17 - So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

I’ll address these last two verses together since my explanation for them is the same.

1. First notice that the first text does not say that those who believe and are not baptized are not saved (again, the logical fallacy of “denying the antecedent”). And neither of these texts say “if one isn’t baptized then they cannot have the Spirit.” They simply comment on the fact that one should believe and be baptized.
You are correct that these passages do not state that one who is not baptized is not saved. But John 3:5 does state that. Further, if you read back in Acts 2:37, the men who were listening to Peter asked, "What shall we do?" They believed the message Peter preached. And if what you believe, that all that is necessary is to believe the Gospel to be saved, is true then there was nothing remaining that these men needed to do: they were already saved. But that is not what Peter tells them. He tells them to repent and be baptized (both of these are linked and inseparable in their relation to salvation in this verse) in order to receive forgiveness of sin.
Next, Acts 22:16 is a better passage than Acts 9:17 in terms of clarity of Ananias' command to Saul. God says, "Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name." If all that were required for salvation to be received were belief, then Saul was saved on the road. But he was still stained with sin three days later when Ananias arrived at the house he was in. So he was not saved when he believed. He was saved, his sins were washed away, when he was baptized.
2. But the biggest thing to note is that the word “baptism” in these verses serves as a metonymy.


What is a metonymy?!

(Now, pay attention to this next part because it was this following argument that finally freed me from my baptismal legalism.)

The Metonymy of “baptism”

A metonymy is where one thing is represented by something that is closely related to it. If I say, “the White House said…” then I have used a metonymy. The White House can’t say anything. It is a building. The “White House” is a way to refer to the president or one of his associates. Or if I use the old adage that, “the pen is mightier than the sword.” I have used two metonymies. The word “pen” refers to ideas and the word “sword” refers to physical force. Notice how “pen” and “sword” serve as representatives for things they are closely related to.

This is how baptism is often discussed in the New Testament. It’s not that doing a water ritual is what makes you and God cool. It is faith alone in Christ alone which makes you and God cool. But the word “baptism” is used to represent the event of someone becoming a believer (God and a person being reconciled).

Any time the Bible says baptism saves, it is using the term “baptism” as a metonymy. Baptism doesn’t really save anymore than the building known as the “white house” talks. It is a stand-in for trusting Christ.

Allow me to illustrate this further.

If someone is tempted to cheat on their wife and I say, “you should be faithful because you put a ring on her finger.” Notice that it is not the “ring” that makes them married (some married people don’t wear wedding rings and other people who are not married wear rings on their fingers). What I am doing is using the word “ring” as a metonymy. I’m using it to refer to what actually made them married (vows, the pronouncement of the minister, consummation, etc.). The Bible will often use the concept of “baptism” like I use the word “ring.” Baptism doesn’t save you, but it is a way to refer to what actually does save you (the grace of God in Christ through faith). In the same way the Bible says that a woman is “saved” through childbearing (1 Tim 2:15), Does this mean that a woman must have a physical child in order to be saved? Should we ignore everything the Bible says about being saved by faith and Christ and say, “but the Bible says childbearing saves?” No, we should realize that “childbearing,” like baptism, is a metonymy for a bigger reality; it is a metonymy for being a godly woman.
The fact that baptism is frequently used as a metonymy is irrelevant to the discussion. It is clear from Scripture that the physical action of being immersed in water has absolutely no power to remove sin from our souls. However, it is also clear that it is in the action of being physically immersed in water that the Holy Spirit takes action to cut our sins from us (Rom 6:3-4), wash us clean and make us holy (Eph 5:26-27), clothe us with Christ and make us children of God (Gal 3:26-27), and come to reside in our hearts (Acts 2:38).
 

Additional problems with thinking baptism saves you

In addition to all the biblical evidence above, there are a lot of other theological problems that come along with thinking baptism regenerates you:

1. There are people in the Bible who are saved and have the Spirit who have not been baptized (see especially Acts 10:44-48).
The Gentiles in Acts 10 were not saved when the Holy Spirit fell ON them (not indwelling their hearts) in power (praise and tongues). The Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles in exactly the same way that He fell on the Apostles (who already had the indwelling of the Spirit (John 20:22)) in Acts 2 (in tongues and praise).
2. There are people who get baptized and aren’t saved. Not only do we see this all the time in our day-to-day lives (we all know people who were baptized but now live like the devil), but we may even see this with the case of Simon the Magician in the book of Acts. What do you do when someone has been baptized but still seems unchanged? Do you just keep dunking them, hoping that one will take? No. What they need is true saving faith.
This is no more an indictment of baptism than divorce is an indictment of marriage. Yes, faith is an absolute requirement for salvation. But faith is not an internal, mental-only thing. Faith that does not have action isn't really faith to begin with.
3. The criminal on the cross was saved though he wasn’t baptized. Now, some will point out that he’s under the Old Covenant and therefore doesn’t need baptism, but that misses the point because (1) the whole point is that he is receiving unmerited grace that requires no action on his part.
The fact that he was under the OT, and not the NT, is exactly the point. The requirements for salvation changed from the OT to the NT. And while Jesus was alive and in the flesh, He could change His requirements at His sole discretion (as He did with the thief). But that has no impact on what is required to be saved today.
(2) If he is under the Old Covenant then he has to offer animal sacrifices, clean himself at the temple, obey the Mosaic Law, etc. – all things he obviously isn’t doing. (3) And Jesus’ statement about how you must be “born of water” is said before the criminal dies on the cross. Whether he is in the Old or New Covenant, he still gets saved by grace. That’s the whole point of that text.
Again, you are discounting the fact that Jesus demonstrated that while He was alive He had the power and authority to forgive sin at His discretion (Matt 9:6). So He did not need to require the thief to offer sacrifices or anything else from the OT Law.
4. Baptism is something you do and therefore, whether you like the phrase or not, it is a “work,” and the Bible clearly demonstrates that we are not saved by anything we perform (Ephesians 2:8-10). We are not saved by any action or ritual that we can do.
You, like so many others today, misinterpret what Eph 2:8-9 means. Looking at Rom 10:9-10, it is absolutely clear that there are actions (verbal confession of Jesus as Lord in this case) that result in our receiving salvation. This fact puts the lie to the idea that "there are no physical actions man must perform to receive salvation". What Eph 2:8-9 says is that there is nothing we can do to EARN salvation. God, while we were still His enemies (sinful and dead to Him), did all the actions necessary to provide a way for us to be saved. Salvation is now on the table, not just for the present and future, but for everyone past as well. But He does not force salvation on anyone. We must come to Him in humility and subservience to receive His gift. And we can only receive it the way He says we receive it. We don't make any of the rules. We don't get to cut corners, or receive it because we say, "I think this is what He means."
5. This would mean that babies who die in infancy go to hell. Follow the logic here: if baptism is necessary for salvation and children are born sinful (Psalm 51:5; Romans 3:9-20; Ephesians 2:1-3) then you have to hold that they are lost. If you believe that God can save them by grace, then you don’t have to hold this view. There is no “age of accountability” other than the age they are at conception. (For more on this topic, read our blog “What Happens To Infants When They Die?”)
Children are born with a sin nature, but not stained with sin yet. Reasoning:
Isa 7:16 states that there is a point in the growth of each person that they will come to know right from wrong and be able to choose right (everyone chooses wrong).
Rom 4:15 says that where there is no law there is no transgression (or imputation of transgression). So during the time when a child does not know the difference between good and evil, he is not imputed with sin for transgression of the law of God.
2 Sam 12:23, David says that since his son, who is now dead, will not come to him, he will go to the child. David, the only person in Scripture said to be a "man after God's own heart", was certainly saved. So he would not have gone to his son in Hell. He understood that his son would be in Heaven, and he would be going to his son when he himself died.
6. If baptism is necessary, then it’s necessary every time. You cannot say that God can still save a child or save someone who hasn’t been baptized “if he wants,” and also say baptism is “necessary.” They are mutually exclusive. You can’t say baptism is necessary, but then say that God can still save someone without it. If he can, then it’s not necessary.
I agree 100%. I don't believe that He does make any exceptions. However, I find it very heartless and cruel to say this truth to a grieving person about their lost loved one.
Also, it is entirely possible that God may make exceptions (He is merciful after all). But we cannot teach on exceptions or put our hope in Him changing His mind. We must teach what He instructs in His Word.
7. What if someone didn’t get all the way under the water? What if the minister who baptized them later becomes apostate? If baptism is necessary for salvation and you don’t do it right, you might go to hell for not practicing the ordinance perfectly. That seems to assume that man was made for baptism and not baptism for man.
It is not the water that saves. It is not the minister who died for them. Neither of these is relevant because, as you say, like the sabbath baptism was made for man and not man for baptism. So still, this argument in no way invalidates baptism and essential for receiving salvation.

Conclusion

Now, don’t get me wrong. Baptism is super important. It is commanded of every Christian. If you have not been biblically baptized, you are walking in sin. Baptism is not optional. If someone just refused to be baptized, I would call their salvation into question; not because baptism saves you, but rather they are claiming that they love Christ while refusing to obey him.

At the same time, we must always guard the sacred doctrine of justification by faith alone.
Please show me where "faith alone" or "faith only" occurs in Scripture.
God elects, God calls, God regenerates, God justifies, God sanctifies, God resurrects. God, and God alone saves you, and your response to that grace is not the same thing as the grace itself.
This is correct, but...
It’s important to recognize that as you are commanded to be baptized, you can rejoice in the fact that you are justified and regenerated before you ever get wet.
This is not. It is in water baptism that we die to sin (Rom 6:3-4). It is in water baptism that our sins are cut from us (Rom 6:3-4). It is in water baptism that we are clothed with Christ (Gal 3:26-27). It is in water baptism that we are added to God's family (Gal 3:26-27). It is in water baptism that we are cleansed of every spot and made holy (Eph 5:26-27). It is in water baptism that we are saved (1 Pet 3:21). It is in water baptism that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).
 
Alive said the following: John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

What does it mean to be “born of water?” What does the “water” refer to? Well, it can’t refer to natural birth (amniotic fluid being the “water”) because (1) we don’t have any Greek manuscripts that I know of calling natural birth being “born of water.” That is more of a modern, scientific idea. (2) That would mean that babies that die in the womb aren’t saved because they haven’t been physically born, i.e. “born of water.” So does the phrase “born of water” refer to baptism? No. It refers to the prophetic hope of being sprinkled/washed clean by the Spirit in the Old Testament. Ezekiel 36:25-27 says:

“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.”

Dwight - Also there are no Hebrew manuscripts calling what Ezekiel 36:25-27 describes, as being "born of water." Also to say that if Jesus' words "born of water" refers to natural birth, then babies that die in the womb aren't saved - is an awful interpretation. Going by that interpretation, then none of the Old Testament believers are saved either, because they were not born again, which appears to be strictly a new covenant experience.

2. Jesus corrects Nicodemus for not knowing about this passage that he, as “a teacher of Israel,” should know. This makes since if Jesus is referencing a passage in the Old Testament that Nicodemus should have known. It makes no sense for Jesus to rebuke Nicodemus for not knowing about Christian baptism.

Dwight - No He doesn't. Jesus does not correct Nicodemus for not knowing about the passage in Ezekiel. Undoubtedly, Nicodemus knew that passage. He gently rebukes Nicodemus for not understanding the things He was talking about.

5.
It would have made no sense to Jesus to tell Nicodemus that he has to be baptized because Jesus hasn’t died for sins yet, and “John’s baptism” is not the same as Christian baptism (see Acts 19:1-7).

Dwight - This statement reveals the confusion of the author. John 4:1 tells us that Jesus' disciples baptized new believers IN CHRIST BEFORE JESUS DIED. They were NOT baptizing them into John's baptism. Only John himself was doing that. So if Nicodemus had become a follower of Jesus right then, then Jesus' apostles would have baptized him right then.

I agree with you that faith in Jesus alone saves by grace alone, NOT water baptism, but I believe that Jesus IS referring to childbirth in John 3:5.
IMO, too many Christians make this more complicated than it is.

Nicodemus was specifically talking about childbirth in verse 4. So in verse 5, Jesus starts right there where Nicodemus' thoughts are: Yes, you need to be born physically (born of water), but you also need to be born spiritually.

Just in case Nicodemus STILL misunderstood, Jesus further clarifies it in verse 6:

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh (born of water), and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Some say that it's ridiculous to tell someone that they must be born physically, because we ALL qualify.
But it's no more ridiculous than what Jesus said in Luke 7:28

"Truly I say to you , among those born of women (physical birth -we ALL qualify) there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God (those who experience spiritual birth)is greater than he."

So apparently John the Baptist was not born again, but we definitely know he was saved.

In fact, I think Jesus is talking here about the same two things He is referring to in John 3.

He is comparing physical birth with spiritual birth, just as Peter was in 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2.

So 1 Peter 1:23 and 2:2 and Luke 7:28 are both further confirmation of what Jesus was talking about in John 3.







 
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Romans 4:3-5 - For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

Romans 10:8-10 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 3:23–26 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 15:8-9 - And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Philippians 3:8-9 - Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.

Galatians 3:5-6 - Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith - just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

2 Timothy 1:9 - 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Acts 10:47 - “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Notice how so many passages teach that one is saved just by believing (and where baptism is not even mentioned). Also notice how Acts 10:47 explicitly teach that one receives the Spirit and is regenerated just by hearing the gospel, even when they haven’t been baptized yet
 
Romans 4:3-5 - For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

Romans 10:8-10 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 3:23–26 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 15:8-9 - And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Philippians 3:8-9 - Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.

Galatians 3:5-6 - Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith - just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

2 Timothy 1:9 - 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Acts 10:47 - “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Notice how so many passages teach that one is saved just by believing (and where baptism is not even mentioned). Also notice how Acts 10:47 explicitly teach that one receives the Spirit and is regenerated just by hearing the gospel, even when they haven’t been baptized yet
speaking of acts ten forty seven
LETS notice something about the man cornleioius himself .
HE was a darn good samaritain
GOD was well pleased with his works , his alms to the poor .
HOWEVER even that samaterian had to hear the gospel and BELEIVE to BE SAVED .
I SHUN the all inclusive ecumincal intefaith doctrine to the pits of hell that has sold this generation a lie
IT SEEMS TO LOVE . Them other religoins ARE FALSE and NO MAN can be saved
WITHOUT FAITH IN CHRIST . so why the heck are so many joining hands with an anti christ HARLOT LED
ecumincal love train to peace n safety . WE been DUPED obadiah , DUPED I SAY , DUPED .
 
i absolutely hate the doctine of the interfaithernerians .
AND it will be , and may it long be an ice frigid polar cold day in the lake of fire
LONG before i stop hating that doctrine. SHEEP dont join hands and find common ground WITH A WHORE
they expose her ecumincal unity .
 
So debating with those who reject our doctrines is joining hands with them? How exactly does that work?
I do not think @Tothalordbeallglory is meaning this at all.

Could be wrong but the I'm ok, You're ok mindset with people philosophically sharing Kumbaya moments while seemingly trying
to blend their beliefs together and leaving Christ Jesus out of the mix and faith and belief in HIm also which is a must... I think is what he was indicating.

If not he will come along and clarify.

Actually, technically, I do not think you could count a religious forum debate as being included in this idea because I have
yet to meet anyone who has changed their mind on anything.
 
So debating with those who reject our doctrines is joining hands with them? How exactly does that work?
Debating . Why my dear friend did you just say debating .
Them leaders of interfaith aint debating with them false religoins
THEY LYING TO THEM as they are to us , claiming we all serving the same GOD .
THAT is not debate , ITS A TOTAL SELL OUT . JESUS is not being preached
at all . Rather the lie is . The very lie of anti christ . That aint debating , its called
DECIEVING .
 
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