He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[mailmandan]

Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not limited only to the saved. Being indwelled with the Holy Spirit is limited to those who have been saved; but being filled with the Holy Spirit is not.

So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

That had been occurring throughout the OT and occasionally even to non-believers and to animals such as Baalam's donkey.

There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

In regard to Balaam's donkey, one of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard from folks who attend the CoC in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only. This same ludicrous argument concludes that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 merely received the gift of tongues, but not the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved until AFTER water baptism.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit indicated only that the one being filled was being enabled to do something not normally within his capabilities; it did not indicate salvation.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit certainly does indicate salvation and is a subsequent experience to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in which the Holy Spirit controls and guides every aspect of the believer, providing empowerment for ministry, which may or may not be accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4; 4:8; 4:31; 7:55; 9:7; 13:9; 13:52 etc..)

 

[Jim]

So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

They are entirely different works of the Holy Spirit. To be filled with the Holy Spirit gave abilities to the one being filled that were beyond their own natural abilities (Exo 35:21 and elsewhere). It was typically only for a very few selected individuals for a very selected reason for a very limited time. And was not limited to human believers. It is a gift. But in that case the gift is the extra-natural ability given to the individual and is unrelated to God's act of salvation. That is what is indicated in Acts 10:44-47. To be indwelt with the Holy Spirit is a gift also. However, in that case, the gift is the Holy Spirit. It is uniformly given to the one who is being saved. No extra-natural abilities result from the indwelling even though often natural abilities can and will be enhanced.

There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

I agree.

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

But even in the events of indwelling and filling in the OT were different. There was filling without any indication of indwelling.

In regard to Balaam's donkey, one of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard from folks who attend the CoC in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only. This same ludicrous argument concludes that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 merely received the gift of tongues, but not the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved until AFTER water baptism.

And that is one of the really ludicrous arguments that I often hear from anti-baptism folks.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit certainly does indicate salvation and is a subsequent experience to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in which the Holy Spirit controls and guides every aspect of the believer, providing empowerment for ministry, which may or may not be accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4; 4:8; 4:31; 7:55; 9:7; 13:9; 13:52 etc..)

Outside of the two occasions listed in Acts 2:4 and 10:44 all subsequent filling of the Holy Spirit is listed to have occurred by the laying on of hands of one or more of the Apostles and was indicated by the action of signs, wonders and miracles by the one having been filled. The usual was speaking in tongues and prophesying. That is shown by the account in Samaria present in Acts 8. The believers there were baptized and with that had received the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. However, none of them had received the filling of the Holy Spirit. It took the Apostles Peter and John to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit.

A similar situation is recorded in Acts 19 with Paul in Ephesus. Having received only the baptism of John the Baptist, which was not baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they had not received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Paul then proceeded to baptize them, or at least have others baptize them, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ giving them the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. But to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit required the laying on of Paul's hands at which time they were then capable of speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Again, being indwelt with the Holy Spirit is universal to the ones saved and occurs when they are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Being filled with the Holy Spirit was limited and unrelated directly with salvation.

 

[360watt]

I don't know anyone other than the paedobaptists who puts water baptism before belief.

Okay, yes I realized afterwards that you would have belief and baptism as probably the same thing or that the baptism has to take place after belief.

 

[Doug Brents]

John 3:5 water = John 3:6 flesh

Nice eisegesis. Now try for exegesis.

 

[Doug Brents]

So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Easily, not a single person in the OT was who was filled with the Holy Spirit had the gift (indwelling) of the Spirit. The indwelling is a NT manifestation of the Spirit. And the indwelling Spirit is only given to those who have been saved. But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.

 

[mailmandan]

Easily, not a single person in the OT was who was filled with the Holy Spirit had the gift (indwelling) of the Spirit. The indwelling is a NT manifestation of the Spirit. And the indwelling Spirit is only given to those who have been saved. But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.

Show me in the OT where people were specifically said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit. In the OT the Holy Spirit "came upon" select individuals for specific tasks rather than permanently indwelling them. Show me where NT saints were said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit but had not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved.

 

[dwight92070]

Easily, not a single person in the OT was who was filled with the Holy Spirit had the gift (indwelling) of the Spirit. The indwelling is a NT manifestation of the Spirit. And the indwelling Spirit is only given to those who have been saved. But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.

Which person was filled with the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament? Several had the Holy Spirit come upon them, but which one was filled? They are not the same thing.

Doug said: But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.

Really, name one Bible person who was filled with the Holy Spirit and received miraculous power who was not saved.

 

[Doug Brents]

Show me in the OT where people were specifically said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit. In the OT the Holy Spirit "came upon" select individuals for specific tasks rather than permanently indwelling them. Show me where NT saints were said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit but had not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved.

Exo 31:3
Eze 2:2

 

[mailmandan]

Exo 31:3
Eze 2:2

Exodus 31:3 - and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts.

Only one verse in the OT that says filled?

Ezekiel 2:2 - Then the Spirit entered me when He spoke to me, and set me on my feet; and I heard Him who spoke to me.

Hmm.. not filled? That's all you have? Your argument "to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved" in regard to those NT passages of scripture that I shared still falls short.

Were Peter, Stephen and Paul saved when they were filled with the Holy Spirit or were they still lost? (Acts 4:4; 7:55; 13:9)

 

[FreeInChrist]

Nice eisegesis. Now try for exegesis.

Sigh... Really Surly you have heard too much from me already about John 3: 5 and 3:6... but here goes.

I said " John 3:5 water = John 3:6 flesh" because there is a lot of confusion about the use of water here.

John 3 tells us that Nicodemus (here after to be called Nick) came to Jesus seeking the answer to his question of what he had to do to gain eternal life. And Jesus very calmly told him "Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

This sets Nick off because he thinks Jesus is talking about Childbirth. He says..."Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

And Jesus calmly... I am projecting here because I assume he was calm said to Nick

Vs 5" Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Which has caused a big hoopla among debaters of these things and many clergy who are certain that when Jesus said Born again and then said Water and The Spirit it had to mean an immersion baptism.

Now it is reasonable that Nick would have known about Jewish Baptisms being a pharisee and it is reasonable that Nicodemus, as a Pharisee and a knowledgeable teacher of Jewish law, would have been aware of Jewish baptism practices, particularly those associated with ritual purification and the baptism of John the Baptist. These practices were part of the religious customs and teachings of the time.

But Jesus never once suggested an immersion into water was necessary, which Nick would have understood... and in fact Jesus
went right on and said

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
followed by "“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

But no clarity on the mentioning of water... Jesus had said water and Spirit, vs 5
followed by flesh and Spirit vs 6 as if the Water and Flesh had a tie in.

After this Jesus continues to ignore the water altogether and finishes what he was telling Nick about the Spirit.

verse 8 " “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

verse 9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

verse 10 "Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?"

and then Jesus moves the conversation to

verse 14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

verse 15 'so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

That is the basic Nick born again story.... the emphasis was on the Spirit and also not mistakenly on Jesus .

I submit that in verse 5 and vers 6 where we have water and flesh back to back that that is exactly what the reference is to water.

NOT an immersion baptism.

It is my opinion that Jesus could easily have said when Nick asked How these things could be... that Being a teacher of Israel
Jesus well could have said Nick's knowing about the baptisms for their religion that they needed to be changed and or altered so that it would be acceptable in the sight of God....

But he dropped the water altogether.

Water and Spirit in one verse = Flesh and Spirit in the next. Only the Spirit survived both those references... ergo Water = Flesh
and Flesh is not born again.

 

[Jim]

Nice eisegesis. Now try for exegesis.

That is exegesis. It is Jesus' explanation to Nicodemus of what He meant by being born again.

It is not clear from verses 1 and 2 why Jesus said what he said to Nicodemus in verse 3, except we look back at John 2:23-25 which presents Jesus as the divine omniscient being that knows what is in man. Jesus knew what was in Nicodemus' heart. He knew what Nicodemus was really concerned about and what he was really asking, namely, how he could become a member of God's true kingdom. We know from the other gospels that much of Jesus' preaching and teaching concerned the kingdom of God. Nicodemus was no doubt well acquainted with that teaching and perhaps even Jesus' teaching such as that in Matthew 21:31 where in speaking to the chief priests and the elders of the people told them, "the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you". Thus, even though there is no question from Nicodemus stated in John 3:1-2, Jesus knew what Nicodemus was thinking and what question he really had for Jesus; hence, verse 3: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".

Clearly, Nicodemus was more than a little confused by what Jesus had just said. We have no indication from any of the other gospels or from John previous to this encounter with Nicodemus that Jesus or any of the twelve had ever said anything about being born again. Nicodemus asked he question, How can that be? Specfically, he asked, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" It is obvious from his question that Nicodemus did not understand what Jesus meant when He spoke of being born again. Jesus then answered Nicodemus' question. Jesus told him what He meant by the phrase "born again". He said that by saying born again, that meant born of water and Spirit. And to clarify that being born again was strictly a matter of the spirit being born again, Jesus said," That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (v.6). Being born again is about the spirit not the flesh.

Nicodemus was still a little, maybe a lot, confused by all of this. He asked, "How can these things be" (v.9)? Jesus responded again pointing out that he was not talking about the earthly things, the flesh; but rather, he was talking about heavenly things, the spirit. He said, in verse 12, "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? "

So then even though Jesus repeatedly pointed out that in talking about being born again, He was not speaking about the flesh, but only about the spirit, so many today refuse to accept that and try to explain that born again is about the flesh, about being born in the flesh with the false allusion of water pointing to earthly births. To be born again means to be born of water and Spirit. The spirit must be born again; the spirit must be born of water and Spirit.

 

[Alive]

This seems right to me.

Post in thread 'He that believes and is not water baptised is saved'

Jan 23, 2025

“Those who accepted his message were baptized…” —Acts 2:41

The way I read Acts 2:41 is first you accept the gift of salvation then you get baptized.

Baptism is often described as an outward sign of an inward change. It is a public testimony that you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Your baptism powerfully proclaims what God has done, and is doing, in your life. In addition, as a follower of Jesus, you are publicly saying that you join with Christians from around the world who are unified by faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection.

• Begotten

• 

 

[mailmandan]

And that is one of the really ludicrous arguments that I often hear from anti-baptism folks.

So, the argument that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either is not ludicrous? You compare the Lord simply opening the mouth of this donkey (an animal) to speak in order to rebuke Balaam with receiving the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only, but that is not ludicrous either? Yet the clear fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gift of tongues, (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is ludicrous to you? Really?

 

[Jim]

So, the argument that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either is not ludicrous? You compare the Lord simply opening the mouth of this donkey (an animal) to speak in order to rebuke Balaam with receiving the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only, but that is not ludicrous either? Yet the clear fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gift of tongues, (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is ludicrous to you? Really?

I didn't say anything about the donkey being given the spiritual gift of tongues; but the donkey certainly didn't talk by its own power. The donkey indeed worked a miracle by the power of the Holy Spirit. Was that not a spiritual gift?

 

[mailmandan]

I didn't say anything about the donkey being given the spiritual gift of tongues; but the donkey certainly didn't talk by its own power. The donkey indeed worked a miracle by the power of the Holy Spirit. Was that not a spiritual gift?

Although this was a miraculous event by the power of the Holy Spirit, that still was not the spiritual gift of tongues and cannot be compared to Acts 10:46.

 

[Jim]

Although this was a miraculous event by the power of the Holy Spirit, that still was not the spiritual gift of tongues and cannot be compared to Acts 10:46.

Of course it can be compared. It is just a different miracle. All such miracles have nothing to do with being saved. Empowering miracles is a completely different and separate work of the Holy Spirit from His work in redemption. His work of Acts 10:45 was the work of empowering the Gentiles to perform speaking in tongues. It is completely separate from His work in the salvation of the Gentiles. The gift given them in verse 45 was not indwelling. It was the same gift given to those in the upper room in Acts 2:4 not the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit given the repentant believers who were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That occurred in Acts 10:48.

 

[mailmandan]

Of course it can be compared. It is just a different miracle. All such miracles have nothing to do with being saved. Empowering miracles is a completely different and separate work of the Holy Spirit from His work in redemption. His work of Acts 10:45 was the work of empowering the Gentiles to perform speaking in tongues. It is completely separate from His work in the salvation of the Gentiles. The gift given them in verse 45 was not indwelling. It was the same gift given to those in the upper room in Acts 2:4 not the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit given the repentant believers who were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That occurred in Acts 10:48.

I strongly disagree. Compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38,39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[TomL]

Although this was a miraculous event by the power of the Holy Spirit, that still was not the spiritual gift of tongues and cannot be compared to Acts 10:46.

Correct

 

[Jim]

I strongly disagree. Compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

There is no way to observe and be amazed that the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit has been received by someone.

 

[TomL]

Of course it can be compared. It is just a different miracle. All such miracles have nothing to do with being saved. Empowering miracles is a completely different and separate work of the Holy Spirit from His work in redemption. His work of Acts 10:45 was the work of empowering the Gentiles to perform speaking in tongues. It is completely separate from His work in the salvation of the Gentiles. The gift given them in verse 45 was not indwelling. It was the same gift given to those in the upper room in Acts 2:4 not the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit given the repentant believers who were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That occurred in Acts 10:48.

Um the gentiles had clearly received the Spirit and salvation was much involved.

Acts 10:34–43 (LEB) — 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said, “In truth I understand that God is not one who shows partiality, 35 but in every nation the one who fears him and who does what is right is acceptable to him. 36 As for the message that he sent to the sons of Israel, proclaiming the good news of peace through Jesus Christ—this one is Lord of all—37 you know the thing that happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee, after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 Jesus of Nazareth—how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all the things that he did both in the land of the Judeans and in Jerusalem, whom they also executed by hanging him on a tree. 40 God raised this one up on the third day and granted that he should become visible, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen beforehand by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify solemnly that this one is the one appointed by God as judge of the living and of the dead. 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”


Acts 10:47–48 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for several days.

Acts 11:13–18 (LEB) — 13 And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and summon Simon, who is also called Peter, 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”
Baptized with the Holy Spirit
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

is into the body of Christ

Acts 15:7–11 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.”

The giving of the Holy Spirit

John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.