He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[mailmandan]

Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not limited only to the saved. Being indwelled with the Holy Spirit is limited to those who have been saved; but being filled with the Holy Spirit is not.

So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

That had been occurring throughout the OT and occasionally even to non-believers and to animals such as Baalam's donkey.

There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

In regard to Balaam's donkey, one of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard from folks who attend the CoC in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only. This same ludicrous argument concludes that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 merely received the gift of tongues, but not the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved until AFTER water baptism.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit indicated only that the one being filled was being enabled to do something not normally within his capabilities; it did not indicate salvation.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit certainly does indicate salvation and is a subsequent experience to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in which the Holy Spirit controls and guides every aspect of the believer, providing empowerment for ministry, which may or may not be accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4; 4:8; 4:31; 7:55; 9:7; 13:9; 13:52 etc..)

 

[Jim]

So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

They are entirely different works of the Holy Spirit. To be filled with the Holy Spirit gave abilities to the one being filled that were beyond their own natural abilities (Exo 35:21 and elsewhere). It was typically only for a very few selected individuals for a very selected reason for a very limited time. And was not limited to human believers. It is a gift. But in that case the gift is the extra-natural ability given to the individual and is unrelated to God's act of salvation. That is what is indicated in Acts 10:44-47. To be indwelt with the Holy Spirit is a gift also. However, in that case, the gift is the Holy Spirit. It is uniformly given to the one who is being saved. No extra-natural abilities result from the indwelling even though often natural abilities can and will be enhanced.

There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

I agree.

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

But even in the events of indwelling and filling in the OT were different. There was filling without any indication of indwelling.

In regard to Balaam's donkey, one of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard from folks who attend the CoC in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only. This same ludicrous argument concludes that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 merely received the gift of tongues, but not the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved until AFTER water baptism.

And that is one of the really ludicrous arguments that I often hear from anti-baptism folks.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit certainly does indicate salvation and is a subsequent experience to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in which the Holy Spirit controls and guides every aspect of the believer, providing empowerment for ministry, which may or may not be accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4; 4:8; 4:31; 7:55; 9:7; 13:9; 13:52 etc..)

Outside of the two occasions listed in Acts 2:4 and 10:44 all subsequent filling of the Holy Spirit is listed to have occurred by the laying on of hands of one or more of the Apostles and was indicated by the action of signs, wonders and miracles by the one having been filled. The usual was speaking in tongues and prophesying. That is shown by the account in Samaria present in Acts 8. The believers there were baptized and with that had received the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. However, none of them had received the filling of the Holy Spirit. It took the Apostles Peter and John to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit.

A similar situation is recorded in Acts 19 with Paul in Ephesus. Having received only the baptism of John the Baptist, which was not baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they had not received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Paul then proceeded to baptize them, or at least have others baptize them, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ giving them the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. But to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit required the laying on of Paul's hands at which time they were then capable of speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Again, being indwelt with the Holy Spirit is universal to the ones saved and occurs when they are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Being filled with the Holy Spirit was limited and unrelated directly with salvation.

 

[360watt]

I don't know anyone other than the paedobaptists who puts water baptism before belief.

Okay, yes I realized afterwards that you would have belief and baptism as probably the same thing or that the baptism has to take place after belief.