He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Titus]

Quite demanding now, aren't you? I do not answer to you, nor do you have any authority to demand anything of me. Show respect.


1 Pet 3:21 - "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Col 2:11 - "and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"
Titus 3:5 - "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,"
Rom 8:11 - "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
John 3:5 - "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

None of these passages stand alone. It is the sum total of Scripture that shows us truth. Just seeing one verse of Scripture is like seeing just one pixel of a 1080p image. The one pixel may be red, but the overall picture is green (just for generic demonstration). And if all you see is the red pixel, you get a wrong idea about what Scripture says.

Not one of these passages teaches the Holy Spirit Himself takes our sins away in baptism.

 

[MTMattie]

Cant give one Scripture that teaches what you taught on this thread can you?
Holy Spirit takes our sins away in water baptism?
You will answer to God for teaching heresy.

Only one Savior, Ephesians 4:5,
- One Lord, One faith, One baptism

By His shed blood alone are our sins washed away, Matthew 26:28,
- this is My blood of the new covenant which is shed for many FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS

In baptism according to Peter our sins are washed away, Acts 2:38,
- then Peter said to them, repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS

The only right conclusion that can be drawn is,
In baptism is where we contact the blood of Christ that was shed for us to do what Doug Brents?

CLEASNSE US FROM ALL SIN.

Not one Scripture teaches the Holy Spirit removes our sins directly in baptism.
Only the Savior and the Savior's shed blood takes our sins away.

You will answer to God for showing a lack of respect to His Son our Savior by teaching a heresy that the Holy Spirit removes our sins in baptism.

Your doctrine has two Saviors!!!!

The son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is God. Not 2 Saviors.... just 1.

 

[Grace ambassador]

op: "he that believeth and is not water baptized is saved"?

Isn't that Unscriptural and and Contradictory To God's Word Of Truth?:

anonymous_asks: "how long must we keep beating this dead horse?

Until somebody "gets it right," eh?

How about:

One Baptism vs baptisms​

or, even perchance?:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

Amen.



or Maybe?:

Briefly - Right Division...​

Since a wise one says "remember, we have TWO ears, but Only one mouth.",
I will now humbly bow out of this thread - please carry on, Until:

Great Grace Departure! ???​

Amen.

 

[Titus]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned

Attempt to explain away what Jesus says.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics

Jesus only has to say something ONCE for it to be true.
Your logic is not logical.
Something has to be said multiple times for it to be true. illogical.
Another attempt to explain away what Jesus says.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

You left out John 3:5 where Jesus includes water baptism to enter the kingdom intentionally.

The son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is God. Not 2 Saviors.... just 1.

I know, tell it to Doug Brents.
He's the one who needs to learn this.

 

[Doug Brents]

Not one of these passages teaches the Holy Spirit Himself takes our sins away in baptism.

Read them again with the Spirit's guidance. It is through the Spirit (by the power of Jesus' blood) that we are renewed. It is through the Spirit (and water) that we enter the Kingdom of God. It is the Spirit who (without hands) circumcises our sin from us.

I know, tell it to Doug Brents.
He's the one who needs to learn this.

ROTFLMBO - You obviously are reading what you want to read, and not what is said, because that is exactly what I said in post #1152.

 

[Titus]

Read them again with the Spirit's guidance. It is through the Spirit (by the power of Jesus' blood) that we are renewed. It is through the Spirit (and water) that we enter the Kingdom of God. It is the Spirit who (without hands) circumcises our sin from us.

ROTFLMBO - You obviously are reading what you want to read, and not what is said, because that is exactly what I said in post #1152.

You said the Holy Spirit takes our sins away in baptism.
You have failed to give one verse that teaches this.

Only Christ's shed blood removes sin.
Give a verse that says otherwise.
You cannot.
You are teaching heresy.

 

[MTMattie]

And no one has brought up that in the older bibles Mark ended at Mark 16: vs 8. And there, over the years were a few completions because they thought it was too short.

So we dont even know where Mark 16:16 came from... but likely not Mark

 

[Titus]

. It is in/during baptism that the Holy Spirit removes sin

 

[Titus]

And no one has brought up that in the older bibles Mark ended at Mark 16: vs 8. And there, over the years were a few completions because they thought it was too short.

So we dont even know where Mark 16:16 came from... but likely not Mark

Nothing said in Mark 16:16 that is not said in Matthew 28:19-20

 

[Titus]

Read them again with the Spirit's guidance. It is through the Spirit (by the power of Jesus' blood) that we are renewed. It is through the Spirit (and water) that we enter the Kingdom of God. It is the Spirit who (without hands) circumcises our sin from us

Proof you don't know what you are saying.
The Spirit working in salvation DOES NOT MAKE THE SPIRIT THE PERSON IN THE GODHEAD THAT TAKES OUR SINS AWAY.

No more than the Father is the person in the Godhead that takes our sins away.

They all work together in providing a way to be saved but only ONE is the Savior. Only ONE removes our sin with His blood.

t is in/during baptism that the Holy Spirit removes sin

Matthew 22:29

 

[mailmandan]

Attempt to explain away what Jesus says.

Unlike Campbellites, I properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26)

Jesus only has to say something ONCE for it to be true.
Your logic is not logical.
Something has to be said multiple times for it to be true. illogical.
Another attempt to explain away what Jesus says.

That is the typical response from water-salvationists.

You left out John 3:5 where Jesus includes water baptism to enter the kingdom intentionally.

In John 3:5, Jesus said born of water and the Spirit. He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit and He also did not say unless one is water baptized, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. In the very next chapter, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14 and and He connects living water with eternal life in John 4:14. Also, in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water (which reaches the heart) and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" i

I know, tell it to Doug Brents.
He's the one who needs to learn this

Been there, done that.

 

[Titus]

Anyone who teaches there is another who takes away the sins of the world, robs the Savior of His glory.

All glory to the risen Savior, who carried His cross, the torture, the agony, the immense suffering for one purpose and one purpose alone,
John 1:29,
- the next day John saw Jesus and said,
Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world


Praise Jesus, all glory, all praise for Jesus!!! May no one rob Him of ALL His glory! Amen

 

[Titus]

In John 3:5, Jesus said born of water and the Spirit. He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit

And John did not need to because Nicodemus knew after Jesus explained to him that he must be born again to enter the kingdom that Jesus was preaching the baptism of John that is water immersion.

Mark 1:8,
- i(John) baptize you with  water, but Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit

Nicodemus was not ignorant as you.
He knew John baptized with water.
All the Jews at this time knew John baptized with water.

 

[mailmandan]

And John did not need to because Nicodemus knew after Jesus explained to him that he must be born again to enter the kingdom that Jesus was preaching the baptism of John that is water immersion.

Mark 1:8,
- i(John) baptize you with  water, but Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit

Nicodemus was not ignorant as you.
He knew John baptized with water.
All the Jews at this time knew John baptized with water.

Nicodemus was ignorant of Jesus' words in John 3:3. Verse 4 - Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

 

[Titus]

Nicodemus was ignorant of Jesus' words in John 3:3. Verse 4 - Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

At first.
Then Jesus explained that men not babies must be born again.
Nicodemus did learn from Jesus are you saying Nicodemus never understood?

 

[Titus]

Nicodemus knew after Jesus explained to him that he must be born again to enter the kingdom that Jesus was preaching the baptism of John that is water immersion.

At first he did not understand. So Jesus taught him.
Nicodemus most certainly knew of John's baptism in water. No doubt about that.
Jesus had to explain to him the purpose of John's baptism and why he must be born again in John's baptism.

Nicodemus was ignorant of Jesus' words in John 3:3. Verse 4

 

[mailmandan]

At first he did not understand. So Jesus taught him.
Nicodemus most certainly knew of John's baptism in water. No doubt about that.
Jesus had to explain to him the purpose of John's baptism and why he must be born again in John's baptism.

Regardless of what Nicodemus may have known about John's baptism, the word baptism was not even mentioned in Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. As we read further: John 3:11 - Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? All I see here in context is Nicodemus struggling to understand what Jesus meant in John 3:3,5.

 

[Titus]

Regardless of what Nicodemus may have known about John's baptism, the word baptism was not even mentioned in Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. As we read further: John 3:11 - Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? All I see here in context is Nicodemus struggling to understand what Jesus meant in John 3:3,5.

I agree.
He definitely did not understand.
I'm glad you understand the context.
But in the context Jesus explained what He meant.
There is no reason to believe Nicodemus could not grasp Jesus' explanation.
Again Nicodemus did know of John's baptism.
Jesus' use of the word water symbolizes John's water baptism.
Do you not know all of the Jews at this time were being baptized in water?
It was a huge part of believing in Jesus in order to be added to Gods kingdom.

Both John and Jesus preached at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry,
Mark1: 15 Jesus said,
- the time is fullfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand repent ye and believe the gospel

John 3:5 Jesus tells Nicodemus he must be born again to enter His kingdom.

You see Jesus and John at Salim baptizing in water in John 3.

 

[Titus]

Regardless of what Nicodemus may have known about John's baptism, the word baptism was not even mentioned in Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. As we read further: John 3:11 - Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? All I see here in context is Nicodemus struggling to understand what Jesus meant in John 3:3,5.

I ask you to read the entire chapter of John 3, two times.
Then tell me the context is not Jesus and John preaching of the coming of the kingdom and how to enter the kingdom by being born again of water and the Spirit.

 

[MTMattie]

Nicodemus was ignorant of Jesus' words in John 3:3. Verse 4 - Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

Yes, Nick was ignorant of what Jesus was saying but he knew exactly the inference of water to flesh., which had nothing to do with a water baptism.