He that believes and is not water baptised is saved
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Cornelius was a righteous man before water baptism and the Lord heard his prayers and had accepted him1 Pet 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
Acts 10:1-4,22
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
that word just is the same word righteous in 1 Pet 3:12
Also Rom 10:9-10 says nothing about water baptism
Truther
Well-known member
So you’re saying that Cornelius was saved before he met Peter, before he received the Holy Ghost and before he was baptized, in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins? Wow.
We are receiving too many complaints on this thread. This is the second time I've asked for cooperation on toning it down. Please act like gentlemen remember who you are representing. So, it's up to you guys clean it up or I'm closing the thread.
Truther
Well-known member
No, Romans 10:9 is written to give the saved Saints a way to remain saved. We have to practice confessing and believing every day to keep from falling away.
It was not written to bypass Acts 2:38 and provide an alternate plan of salvation.
It was not written to sinners. The gospels are written to sinners. The book of Acts is written to show sinners how to be saved. The book of Romans through Revelation show us how to remain saved.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Cornelius was a righteous man before water baptism and the Lord heard his prayers and had accepted him1 Pet 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
Acts 10:1-4,22
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
that word just is the same word righteous in 1 Pet 3:12
Also Rom 10:9-10 says nothing about water baptism
Kokomo
Member
You've already proven that you hold to the false doctrine of Baptismal regeneration. and that you believe that anyone that doesn't is not saved. Pedal your backwards theology on down the road.
Kokomo
Member
Incorrect, here's the truth of the matter.
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the ROMANS
Author: Paul
Date: A.D. 56
Theme: The Righteousness of God in the Gospel of Christ
Key Words: Righteousness, Faith, Justification, Law, Grace
Background. When Paul wrote Romans about A.D. 56, he had not yet been to Rome, but he had been preaching the gospel since his conversion in A.D. 35. During the previous ten years he had founded churches throughout the Mediterranean world. Now he was nearing the end of his third missionary journey. This epistle is therefore a mature statement of his understanding of the gospel. The church at Rome had been founded by other Christians (unknown to us, but see “visitors from Rome” in Acts 2:10); and Paul, through his travels, knew many of the believers there (16:3–15).
Occasion and Date. Paul most likely wrote Romans while he was in Corinth in A.D. 56, taking a collection to help the needy Christians in Jerusalem (15:25–28, 31; 2 Cor. 8, 9). He planned to go to Jerusalem with this collection, then visit the church in Rome (1:10, 11; 15:22–24). After being refreshed and supported by the Christians in Rome, he planned to travel to Spain to preach the gospel (15:24). He wrote to tell the Romans of his impending visit. The letter was likely delivered by Phoebe (16:1, 2).
Purpose. In view of his personal plans, Paul wrote to introduce himself to a church he had never visited. At the same time he set forth a full and orderly statement of the great principles of the gospel that he preached.
Characteristics. Romans is commonly considered the greatest exposition of Christian doctrine anywhere in Scripture. It contains an orderly, logical development of profound theological truths. It is filled with the great themes of redemption: the guilt of all mankind, our inability to earn favor with God, the redeeming death of Christ, and the free gift of salvation to be received by faith alone. Since Paul had not visited Rome, the epistle does not address specific local problems, but contains general teaching applicable to all Christians for all time. Throughout the history of the church, expositions of Romans have sparked many revivals as people have become aware of the magnificence of God and His grace toward us.
Content. The overall doctrinal theme that Paul seeks to demonstrate is that God is righteous. In spite of all that happens in this world—even though all men are sinful (1:8–3:20); even though God does not punish but forgives guilty sinners (3:1–5:21); even though believers may not fully live in a way consistent with God’s righteousness (6:1–8:17); even though believers suffer and final redemption is delayed (8:18–39); even though many Jews do not believe (9:1–11:36)—still God is perfectly righteous, and by His grace has forgiven us. Because of this great mercy from an all-righteous God, we should live a pattern of life consistent with God’s own righteousness (12:1–16:27).
Personal Application. Romans teaches us that we should not trust in ourselves for salvation, but in Christ (chs. 1–5); that we should imitate the faith of Abraham (ch. 4); be patient in times of trouble (5:1–11); rejoice in our representation by Christ (5:12–21); grow in daily death to sin (6:1–7:25); walk according to the Spirit each moment (8:1–17); hope in future glory and trust that God will bring good out of present sufferings (8:18–39); pray for and proclaim the gospel to the lost, especially the Jews (9:1–11:32); and praise God for His great wisdom in the plan of salvation (11:33–36). Especially in chapters 2–15 the letter gives many specific applications to life, showing how the gospel works out in practice both in the church and in the world. Finally, we can even learn to imitate Paul’s deeply personal care for many individual believers (ch. 16).
Christ Revealed. The whole epistle is the story of God’s plan of redemption in Christ: the need for it (1:8–3:20), the detailed description of Christ’s work and its implications for Christians (3:1–11:36), and the application of the gospel of Christ to everyday life (12:1–16:27).
More specifically, Jesus Christ is our Savior, who obeyed God perfectly as our representative (5:18, 19), and who died as our substitute sacrifice (3:25; 5:6, 8). He is the One in whom we must have faith for salvation (1:16, 17; 3:22; 10:9, 10). Through Christ we have many blessings: reconciliation to God (5:11); righteousness and eternal life (5:18–21); identification with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection (6:3–5); being alive to God (6:11); freedom from condemnation (8:1); eternal inheritance (8:17); suffering with Him (8:17); being glorified with Him (8:17); being made like Him (8:29); and the fact that He even now prays for us (8:34). Indeed, all of the Christian life seems to be lived through Him: prayer (1:8), rejoicing (5:11), exhortation (15:30), glorifying God (16:27), and, in general, living to God and obeying Him (6:11; 13:14).
The Holy Spirit at Work. The Holy Spirit gives power in preaching the gospel and in working miracles (15:19), dwells in all who belong to Christ (8:9–11), and gives us life (8:11). He also makes us progressively more holy in daily life, empowering us to obey God and overcome sin (2:29; 7:6; 8:2, 13; 15:13, 16), giving us a pattern of holiness to follow (8:4), guiding us in it (8:14), and purifying our consciences to bear true witness (9:1). The Holy Spirit pours God’s love into our hearts (5:5; 15:30), along with joy, peace, and hope by His power (14:17; 15:13). He enables us to pray rightly (8:26) and to call God our Father, thereby giving inward spiritual assurance that we are God’s children (8:16). We are to set our minds on the things of the Spirit if we wish to be pleasing to God (8:5, 6). Though Paul discusses spiritual gifts briefly in Romans (12:3–8), he makes no explicit mention of the Holy Spirit in connection with these gifts, except to refer to them as “spiritual” (or “of the Spirit”) in 1:11. The present work of the Holy Spirit in us is only a foretaste of His future heavenly work in us (8:23).
Outline of Romans Introduction 1:1–17
A. Paul’s identification 1:1–7
B. Paul’s desire to visit Rome 1:8–15
C. Summary of the gospel 1:16, 17
I. All have sinned 1:8–3:20
A. Gentiles know of God but reject Him 1:18–32
B. Jews have God’s laws but are not righteous 2:1–29
C. God is just to judge all men 3:1–20
II. Justification is by faith alone 3:1–5:21
A. God’s righteousness preserved through Christ’s death for us 3:21–26
B. Justification is by faith alone 3:27–31
C. Abraham justified by faith, not works 4:1–25
D. Once justified by faith, we triumph even in sufferings 5:1–11
E. We gained death through Adam’s sin, but eternal life through Christ’s obedience 5:12–21
III. Practicing righteousness in the Christian life 6:1–8:39
A. Overcoming sin in the Christian life 6:1–23
B. We are dead to the powerless system called “law” 7:1–6
C. The law cannot empower us to obey 7:7–25
D. We fulfill God’s righteousness by living in the power of the Spirit and according to the Spirit 8:1–17
E. Longing for complete redemption 8:18–25
F. Help and assurance in hardship 8:26–39
IV. God and Israel 9:1–11:36
A. Though Israel is unfaithful, God is righteous 9:1–33
B. Israel has willingly rejected the gospel 10:1–21
C. A remnant now remains, and someday full salvation will come to Israel 11:1–32
D. Praise for God’s infinite wisdom 11:33–36
V. Practical applications 12:1–15:13
A. Present yourselves as sacrifices to God 12:1, 2
B. Use of spiritual gifts 12:3–8
C. Relating to Christians 12:9–13
D. Relating to unbelievers 12:14–21
E. Relating to government 13:1–7
F. The law of love 13:8–14
G. Toleration and love in minor things 14:1–23
H. Caring for each other 15:1–13
VI. Paul’s own situation 15:14–33
A. His ministry 15:14–22
B. His plans 15:23–33
VII. Personal greetings 16:1–24
VIII. Benediction 16:25–27
Jack W. Hayford, Spirit Filled Life Study Bible
Truther
Well-known member
Were Cornelius‘s family and friends unrighteous when Peter met them?
Truther
Well-known member
Rom 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The book of Romans was written to sinners or saints?
Truther
Well-known member
To anyone else, is this book written to sinners or Saints?…
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
brightfame52
Well-known member
Cornelius was a righteous man before water baptism and the Lord heard his prayers and had accepted him1 Pet 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
Acts 10:1-4,22
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
that word just is the same word righteous in 1 Pet 3:12
Also Rom 10:9-10 says nothing about water baptism
Biblelesson
Active member
The Apostle Paul is introducing himself to The church at Rome.
Paul wishes for the favor and peace (v 7) of God to rest upon these Gentile Roman believers. Paul states that God is our Father. This puts the Gentile believers in Rome into the same family with Paul. Similarly, they also both have Jesus Christ as their Lord.
The opening of Paul's letter was sidetracked momentarily by his eagerness to begin talking about the gospel of Jesus. Having successfully identified himself as Jesus' representative sent to proclaim the gospel to his readers, Paul now moves on to describe exactly who this letter is for.
He is writing to everyone in Rome at the time who is both loved by God and called by God to be saints. According to John 3:16, God loves the world, including all of those in Rome at this time. Beyond that, Paul understood that God had called those reading his letter to be "saints" or "holy ones."
In the New Testament, all who believe in Jesus carry the title of "saint" (Ephesians 2:19). It is not a name meant only for those who are thought to be especially righteous Christians. Because believers are "in Christ," and Christ is holy, we are all officially "holy ones," as well.
Paul concludes the opening of his letter with his standard blessing. He used it often, but it is meaningful. He pronounced upon his readers grace and peace from both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. The mystery and beauty of the Trinity is that God is one in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Horatius
Member
Explanation of Romans 1:1–7
Just as today’s letters often open with “Dear” (and e-mails with “Hi”), ancient letters followed particular conventions. The writer could begin by identifying him- or her-self, then the addressee, and finally giving the conventional greeting. Although such introductions were typically simple, writers could expand any of these elements as needed.3 Because Paul here is writing to a congregation he has not visited, he may expand the first element (his identity) at greater length than usual. But introductions (whether of speeches, laws, books, or other works) typically introduced a work’s primary themes, and Paul hints at some of these even in this letter’s opening. (He becomes more specific, however, in 1:8–17, esp. 1:16–17.)
Paul begins by identifying himself as a slave of Christ, a called apostle, and one set apart for God’s good news. Although apostleship may be his distinctive gift (1:5; 11:13), he will return to many of these descriptions with regard to believers more generally: their slavery to God versus slavery to sin (6:6, 16–22; 7:6, 25; 8:15; 12:11; 14:18; 16:18), their God-initiated “calling” (1:6–7; 8:28, 30; 9:7, 12, 24–26), and their being “set apart” for God (1:7; 6:19, 22; 8:27; 11:16; 12:1, 13; 15:16, 25–26, 31; 16:2, 15). The “good news” (“gospel”) is one of his major themes in the letter and lies at the heart of his own mission (1:9, 15–16; 2:16; 10:15–16; 11:28; 15:16, 19–20; 16:25; see comment on 1:16).
Although free persons normally did not consider “slavery” an honorable status, slaves were not all of one kind. Some slaves of Caesar wielded more power than free aristocrats, and some aristocratic women even married into slavery (in Caesar’s household) to improve their status. Slavery to the supreme Lord Jesus was no dishonor; it resembled the OT situation of the prophets and some other godly leaders of Israel as “servants of God.” The nature of Paul’s slavery to Christ is connected with his being “set apart” (in God’s plan, even from the womb; cf. Gal 1:15) for the good news. God had revealed this purpose for Paul at his calling, when he was converted (cf. Gal 1:16; Acts 26:16).
Paul cannot introduce himself and his mission without talking about the God he serves. Sophisticated Greek writers sometimes circled back to their point, as Paul does here: he returns to his apostleship as a mission to the Gentiles in 1:5, but first he explicates the content of the good news he mentioned in 1:1. The good news Paul proclaims is just what the prophets announced (1:2; cf. 3:21; 16:26), hence Paul’s heavy use of Scripture in this letter focused on his gospel. (Roughly half of Paul’s extant quotations of Scripture appear in this letter.) In the Prophets proper, the “good news” is especially the promise that God would establish peace and blessing for his people (Isa 40:9; 52:7; 60:6; 61:1), and Paul proclaims that this ancient promise is now being fulfilled in Jesus (see comment on 1:16), a theme to which he will often return (see “promise” in 4:13, 14, 16, 20, 21; 9:4, 8, 9; 15:8).
What is the content of the good news foretold by the prophets? The prophets associated their good news of Israel’s restoration with the coming of the promised Davidic king and the hope of resurrection. In 1:3–4 Paul declares that his good news concerns God’s “Son.” As a descendant of David (1:3; cf. 15:12), Jesus could be rightful heir to Israel’s throne; but once a king was enthroned, he was adopted by God (2 Sam 7:14–16; Pss 2:6–7; 89:26–33). Jesus was not only descended from David (as some other people were), but attested as God’s Son by the Spirit, who raised him from the dead and hence exalted him as Lord. Of course, Jesus is not God’s “Son” only in the ordinary royal sense (cf. Rom 8:3, 29; Isa 9:6–7), but the good news that God has established a king, and hence his kingdom, sets Paul’s preaching of Jesus squarely in the context of the OT promises.
Many Judeans regularly praised God for his power that would one day be expressed in raising the dead; Paul likewise treats resurrection as the ultimate display of God’s power (Rom 1:4; 1 Cor 6:14; 15:43; Eph 1:19–20; Phil 3:10, 21). Jesus’s followers, however, recognize this resurrection as not merely a theoretical hope for the future, but a future reality already initiated in history: Paul speaks literally here of Jesus’s resurrection “from among the dead ones,” implying that Jesus’s resurrection is the first installment of the future promise of resurrection for the righteous (cf. Acts 4:2). Paul elsewhere associates God’s Holy Spirit with power (Rom 15:13, 19; 1 Cor 2:4; Eph 3:16; 1 Thess 1:5; cf. also Mic 3:8; Zech 4:6; Luke 1:35; 4:14; Acts 1:8; 10:38), and affirms that the same Spirit who raised Jesus will also raise all believers (Rom 8:11). Paul stresses Jesus’s resurrection as a prominent element of the good news (4:24–25; 6:4–5, 9; 7:4; 8:11, 34; 10:9).
Through Jesus Paul has received “grace” for his apostolic mission (1:5). Each believer received God’s generous, unmerited gifting or “grace,” empowering them for their own special role or purpose in serving his people (Rom 12:6; cf. 1 Cor 1:7; 12:4, 9, 28–31; Eph 4:7); Paul’s grace is expressed in this letter by serving them (12:3; 15:15). Paul’s mission is to bring Gentiles to the obedience of faith, hence his desire to share his message with Christ’s followers in Rome, who are among the Gentiles (1:5; cf. 1:13–15). What does Paul mean by “obedience of faith”? The Greek phrase could be understood in several ways, but Paul is concerned that believers obey God rather than sin (6:12, 16–17; cf. 5:19), and elsewhere speaks of their obedience (16:19) and his mission to bring Gentiles to obedience (15:18). Paul also emphasizes “faith” often in Romans (some forty times, plus twenty-one uses of the cognate verb). He is clear from the beginning that genuine faith in Christ (itself obedience to the gospel; cf. 6:17) should, if carried out, produce a righteous lifestyle (see ch. 6). Paul probably returns to this crucial point in 16:26. Disobedience brings reproach on Christ (cf. 2:24); God saves a people for his “name,” that is, for his glory or honor. (Roman society had a keen sense of honor and shame, and would appreciate the importance of God’s honor.)
“Saints” (in some translations of 1:7) means “those who have been set apart” (cf. 1:1). Scripture portrayed Israel as “beloved” (cf. 11:28), “called” (cf. 11:29), and as “set apart” for God (cf. 11:16). Paul readily applies all these titles to a majority Gentile congregation (cf. 1:13), since all who serve Israel’s rightful king (1:3–4) are grafted into Israel’s heritage (cf. 11:16–17). They, too, are special objects of God’s love (5:5, 8; 8:35, 39; and probably 15:30). It was customary to build rapport with one’s audience toward the beginning of one’s work, when possible,20 and clearly Paul shares this sensitivity.
Significantly, in 1:7 Paul adapts the conventional greeting of his day (as elsewhere in his and some other early Christian letters). Greek greetings were normally simply chairein (“greetings”); Paul and some other early Christian writers adapt this to charis (“grace”; divine “generosity”) and include the typical Judean (and Eastern) greeting “peace” (reflecting Hebrew shalom, which is analogous to the contemporary English greeting “God bless you”). Paul’s major adaptation, however, is more significant. Letters typically included prayers or wishes invoking deities on behalf of the recipients’ health or welfare. Paul here blesses the believers by invoking not only God the Father, but also the Lord Jesus Christ. Although post-Nicene readers might suppose that Paul envisions Jesus’s deity only where he uses the explicit title “God” (cf. perhaps 9:5), he actually assumes Jesus’s deity fairly often. In fact, for Paul, “Lord” can be a divine title no less than “God” is (cf. 1 Cor 8:5–6); Paul employs this title for Jesus, and sometimes the Father, roughly thirty-seven times in Romans.
Romans, New Covenant Commentary Series
Just as today’s letters often open with “Dear” (and e-mails with “Hi”), ancient letters followed particular conventions. The writer could begin by identifying him- or her-self, then the addressee, and finally giving the conventional greeting. Although such introductions were typically simple, writers could expand any of these elements as needed.3 Because Paul here is writing to a congregation he has not visited, he may expand the first element (his identity) at greater length than usual. But introductions (whether of speeches, laws, books, or other works) typically introduced a work’s primary themes, and Paul hints at some of these even in this letter’s opening. (He becomes more specific, however, in 1:8–17, esp. 1:16–17.)
Paul begins by identifying himself as a slave of Christ, a called apostle, and one set apart for God’s good news. Although apostleship may be his distinctive gift (1:5; 11:13), he will return to many of these descriptions with regard to believers more generally: their slavery to God versus slavery to sin (6:6, 16–22; 7:6, 25; 8:15; 12:11; 14:18; 16:18), their God-initiated “calling” (1:6–7; 8:28, 30; 9:7, 12, 24–26), and their being “set apart” for God (1:7; 6:19, 22; 8:27; 11:16; 12:1, 13; 15:16, 25–26, 31; 16:2, 15). The “good news” (“gospel”) is one of his major themes in the letter and lies at the heart of his own mission (1:9, 15–16; 2:16; 10:15–16; 11:28; 15:16, 19–20; 16:25; see comment on 1:16).
Although free persons normally did not consider “slavery” an honorable status, slaves were not all of one kind. Some slaves of Caesar wielded more power than free aristocrats, and some aristocratic women even married into slavery (in Caesar’s household) to improve their status. Slavery to the supreme Lord Jesus was no dishonor; it resembled the OT situation of the prophets and some other godly leaders of Israel as “servants of God.” The nature of Paul’s slavery to Christ is connected with his being “set apart” (in God’s plan, even from the womb; cf. Gal 1:15) for the good news. God had revealed this purpose for Paul at his calling, when he was converted (cf. Gal 1:16; Acts 26:16).
Paul cannot introduce himself and his mission without talking about the God he serves. Sophisticated Greek writers sometimes circled back to their point, as Paul does here: he returns to his apostleship as a mission to the Gentiles in 1:5, but first he explicates the content of the good news he mentioned in 1:1. The good news Paul proclaims is just what the prophets announced (1:2; cf. 3:21; 16:26), hence Paul’s heavy use of Scripture in this letter focused on his gospel. (Roughly half of Paul’s extant quotations of Scripture appear in this letter.) In the Prophets proper, the “good news” is especially the promise that God would establish peace and blessing for his people (Isa 40:9; 52:7; 60:6; 61:1), and Paul proclaims that this ancient promise is now being fulfilled in Jesus (see comment on 1:16), a theme to which he will often return (see “promise” in 4:13, 14, 16, 20, 21; 9:4, 8, 9; 15:8).
What is the content of the good news foretold by the prophets? The prophets associated their good news of Israel’s restoration with the coming of the promised Davidic king and the hope of resurrection. In 1:3–4 Paul declares that his good news concerns God’s “Son.” As a descendant of David (1:3; cf. 15:12), Jesus could be rightful heir to Israel’s throne; but once a king was enthroned, he was adopted by God (2 Sam 7:14–16; Pss 2:6–7; 89:26–33). Jesus was not only descended from David (as some other people were), but attested as God’s Son by the Spirit, who raised him from the dead and hence exalted him as Lord. Of course, Jesus is not God’s “Son” only in the ordinary royal sense (cf. Rom 8:3, 29; Isa 9:6–7), but the good news that God has established a king, and hence his kingdom, sets Paul’s preaching of Jesus squarely in the context of the OT promises.
Many Judeans regularly praised God for his power that would one day be expressed in raising the dead; Paul likewise treats resurrection as the ultimate display of God’s power (Rom 1:4; 1 Cor 6:14; 15:43; Eph 1:19–20; Phil 3:10, 21). Jesus’s followers, however, recognize this resurrection as not merely a theoretical hope for the future, but a future reality already initiated in history: Paul speaks literally here of Jesus’s resurrection “from among the dead ones,” implying that Jesus’s resurrection is the first installment of the future promise of resurrection for the righteous (cf. Acts 4:2). Paul elsewhere associates God’s Holy Spirit with power (Rom 15:13, 19; 1 Cor 2:4; Eph 3:16; 1 Thess 1:5; cf. also Mic 3:8; Zech 4:6; Luke 1:35; 4:14; Acts 1:8; 10:38), and affirms that the same Spirit who raised Jesus will also raise all believers (Rom 8:11). Paul stresses Jesus’s resurrection as a prominent element of the good news (4:24–25; 6:4–5, 9; 7:4; 8:11, 34; 10:9).
Through Jesus Paul has received “grace” for his apostolic mission (1:5). Each believer received God’s generous, unmerited gifting or “grace,” empowering them for their own special role or purpose in serving his people (Rom 12:6; cf. 1 Cor 1:7; 12:4, 9, 28–31; Eph 4:7); Paul’s grace is expressed in this letter by serving them (12:3; 15:15). Paul’s mission is to bring Gentiles to the obedience of faith, hence his desire to share his message with Christ’s followers in Rome, who are among the Gentiles (1:5; cf. 1:13–15). What does Paul mean by “obedience of faith”? The Greek phrase could be understood in several ways, but Paul is concerned that believers obey God rather than sin (6:12, 16–17; cf. 5:19), and elsewhere speaks of their obedience (16:19) and his mission to bring Gentiles to obedience (15:18). Paul also emphasizes “faith” often in Romans (some forty times, plus twenty-one uses of the cognate verb). He is clear from the beginning that genuine faith in Christ (itself obedience to the gospel; cf. 6:17) should, if carried out, produce a righteous lifestyle (see ch. 6). Paul probably returns to this crucial point in 16:26. Disobedience brings reproach on Christ (cf. 2:24); God saves a people for his “name,” that is, for his glory or honor. (Roman society had a keen sense of honor and shame, and would appreciate the importance of God’s honor.)
“Saints” (in some translations of 1:7) means “those who have been set apart” (cf. 1:1). Scripture portrayed Israel as “beloved” (cf. 11:28), “called” (cf. 11:29), and as “set apart” for God (cf. 11:16). Paul readily applies all these titles to a majority Gentile congregation (cf. 1:13), since all who serve Israel’s rightful king (1:3–4) are grafted into Israel’s heritage (cf. 11:16–17). They, too, are special objects of God’s love (5:5, 8; 8:35, 39; and probably 15:30). It was customary to build rapport with one’s audience toward the beginning of one’s work, when possible,20 and clearly Paul shares this sensitivity.
Significantly, in 1:7 Paul adapts the conventional greeting of his day (as elsewhere in his and some other early Christian letters). Greek greetings were normally simply chairein (“greetings”); Paul and some other early Christian writers adapt this to charis (“grace”; divine “generosity”) and include the typical Judean (and Eastern) greeting “peace” (reflecting Hebrew shalom, which is analogous to the contemporary English greeting “God bless you”). Paul’s major adaptation, however, is more significant. Letters typically included prayers or wishes invoking deities on behalf of the recipients’ health or welfare. Paul here blesses the believers by invoking not only God the Father, but also the Lord Jesus Christ. Although post-Nicene readers might suppose that Paul envisions Jesus’s deity only where he uses the explicit title “God” (cf. perhaps 9:5), he actually assumes Jesus’s deity fairly often. In fact, for Paul, “Lord” can be a divine title no less than “God” is (cf. 1 Cor 8:5–6); Paul employs this title for Jesus, and sometimes the Father, roughly thirty-seven times in Romans.
Romans, New Covenant Commentary Series
dwight92070
Well-known member
Doug, maybe you've never heard this "rule of thumb" before:
Where the scripture speaks, we speak. Where the scripture is silent, we remain silent.
The scripture is silent before Romans 10 was written (about 55 A.D.) about confession that Jesus is Lord being required in order to be saved. So you have no reason whatsoever to assume that that wrong interpretation was believed or taught by the Apostles and other leaders in the church, prior to that. That is mere speculation, not responsible study of the scripture.
Peter said that God "has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, ..." 2 Peter 1:3 but we have no indication that anybody was taught that confession of Jesus as Lord is a requirement for salvation, prior to 55 A.D.
You said, "You think that just because it wasn't written down that no one knew it? You think that just because it wasn't written down that it was not being taught by the Apostles and other leaders of the Church?"
So let's look at what you said there: You're saying the Apostles and other leaders of the church taught something before 55 A.D. about a requirement for salvation (according to you), that they never wrote in a letter, so we have no record of it. It's important, because its a "requirement" for any and all to be saved, but for some reason, they never documented it in a letter to the churches before 55 A.D. Letters to the churches were supposed to include everything necessary for believers to grow and understand their salvation, but somehow this vital "fact" got left out, before 55 A.D.
Please list "all" the verses in the New Testament where confession that Jesus is Lord is required for salvation. Its sort of like listing "all" the verses in the New Testament that require water baptism to be saved - there are none.
Acts 2:36-38 says zilch about confession that Jesus is Lord being a requirement for salvation, so why would you even say that it does.
You said, "All of Scripture is equal. That means that if something is said even once, it has the same authority as if it were said a thousand times."
So what about the fourth commandment - the Sabbath day? Does it still have the same authority as when God gave it? No, we are no longer under the law and therefore we do not need to keep the Sabbath day.
Romans 9:31-32 "however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works."
So we can't be saved by works, which would include water baptism, verbal confession, good works of any kind, whether they be in the law or not.
But you ignore Romans4:9-10 "Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, 'Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness'. How then was it credited? While he was circumcised or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised."
We could also say correctly: 'Is this blessing (salvation) then on (those who confess Jesus as Lord) or (are baptized in water)? For we say, 'Faith is credited to us as righteousness. How then was it credited? When we confessed Jesus as Lord or when we were baptized in water? No, not after confessing Jesus as Lord and not after we were baptized. But we did those things as signs of the faith we had before we confessed Jesus as Lord and before we were baptized in water. So Abraham is the father of all who believe without being baptized in water and without confessing Jesus as Lord.
Abraham had faith without being circumcised, without traveling to a distant land, without offering Isaac as an offering. He was a believer in God first - then God gave him righteousness - then he obeyed God and did the things He told him to.
Finally you agree with me that in Rom. 10:9-10, Paul is speaking to people who have already been saved. But no, he is not referring back to before they were saved, just as in James 2:23, James is not referring back to Abraham's faith, when he first believed in Genesis 12. James 2:23 refers to Abraham's faith in Genesis 15, much later than when he first believed.
So we too, as believers, some of us for decades, confess Jesus as our Lord continually, and we continually believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, which is our continual assurance that our sins have been forgiven. We don't do these things in order to get saved. We do them because we are saved.
Where the scripture speaks, we speak. Where the scripture is silent, we remain silent.
The scripture is silent before Romans 10 was written (about 55 A.D.) about confession that Jesus is Lord being required in order to be saved. So you have no reason whatsoever to assume that that wrong interpretation was believed or taught by the Apostles and other leaders in the church, prior to that. That is mere speculation, not responsible study of the scripture.
Peter said that God "has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, ..." 2 Peter 1:3 but we have no indication that anybody was taught that confession of Jesus as Lord is a requirement for salvation, prior to 55 A.D.
You said, "You think that just because it wasn't written down that no one knew it? You think that just because it wasn't written down that it was not being taught by the Apostles and other leaders of the Church?"
So let's look at what you said there: You're saying the Apostles and other leaders of the church taught something before 55 A.D. about a requirement for salvation (according to you), that they never wrote in a letter, so we have no record of it. It's important, because its a "requirement" for any and all to be saved, but for some reason, they never documented it in a letter to the churches before 55 A.D. Letters to the churches were supposed to include everything necessary for believers to grow and understand their salvation, but somehow this vital "fact" got left out, before 55 A.D.
Please list "all" the verses in the New Testament where confession that Jesus is Lord is required for salvation. Its sort of like listing "all" the verses in the New Testament that require water baptism to be saved - there are none.
Acts 2:36-38 says zilch about confession that Jesus is Lord being a requirement for salvation, so why would you even say that it does.
You said, "All of Scripture is equal. That means that if something is said even once, it has the same authority as if it were said a thousand times."
So what about the fourth commandment - the Sabbath day? Does it still have the same authority as when God gave it? No, we are no longer under the law and therefore we do not need to keep the Sabbath day.
Romans 9:31-32 "however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works."
So we can't be saved by works, which would include water baptism, verbal confession, good works of any kind, whether they be in the law or not.
But you ignore Romans4:9-10 "Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, 'Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness'. How then was it credited? While he was circumcised or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised."
We could also say correctly: 'Is this blessing (salvation) then on (those who confess Jesus as Lord) or (are baptized in water)? For we say, 'Faith is credited to us as righteousness. How then was it credited? When we confessed Jesus as Lord or when we were baptized in water? No, not after confessing Jesus as Lord and not after we were baptized. But we did those things as signs of the faith we had before we confessed Jesus as Lord and before we were baptized in water. So Abraham is the father of all who believe without being baptized in water and without confessing Jesus as Lord.
Abraham had faith without being circumcised, without traveling to a distant land, without offering Isaac as an offering. He was a believer in God first - then God gave him righteousness - then he obeyed God and did the things He told him to.
Finally you agree with me that in Rom. 10:9-10, Paul is speaking to people who have already been saved. But no, he is not referring back to before they were saved, just as in James 2:23, James is not referring back to Abraham's faith, when he first believed in Genesis 12. James 2:23 refers to Abraham's faith in Genesis 15, much later than when he first believed.
So we too, as believers, some of us for decades, confess Jesus as our Lord continually, and we continually believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, which is our continual assurance that our sins have been forgiven. We don't do these things in order to get saved. We do them because we are saved.
Truther
Well-known member
So, at what point did Cornelius‘s friends and family become saved?
Truther
Well-known member
In the good old days, we used to just read the Bible. Funny how commentary tells us how to think.
Let us let Paul answer this question.
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