He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Fitzpatrick]

No, I don't believe in "works salvation". I believe in Jesus, and what He told me to do is what I will preach. If you want to trust in your own understanding and defy Jesus' commands, that is your business. I am not held accountable for your decisions, only for what I preach.

If you add anything to salvation it's called works salvation. You're adding water baptism to it therefore it's a works salvation. What was it Jesus told you to preach? Did you hear him in audible voice? Or was it just your interpretation of scripture?

 

[Doug Brents]

If you add anything to salvation it's called works salvation. You're adding water baptism to it therefore it's a works salvation. What was it Jesus told you to preach? Did you hear him in audible voice? Or was it just your interpretation of scripture?

I am not adding anything to Scripture. The Scriptures are there for you to read too.

 

[TomL]

The Bible talks about baptism in water all over the place. 1 Pet 3:21 specifically says that it is baptism in water that now saves us. In Acts 8:36 we see that Philip taught the eunuch about salvation through water baptism because it was the eunuch who asked to be baptized as they were passing some water. Matt 28:19 gives direction for the Apostles (and through them all of us) to baptize all new disciples. Man cannot cause the Holy Spirit to act, so Jesus was not instructing them to baptize disciples in the Holy Spirit, but in water.

But not here

That of the spirit baptizing man into Christ, Not the symbolic baptism with water

I say with because the bible never speaks of baptism into water

Hebrews 6:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The context of Eph 4 speaks of the body and the spirit as we see here

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

this baptism is that of the Spirit not water

and in 1pe 3 it is the good conscience which saves us not the water

The baptism of the NT Church is modeled after the baptism of John, but it has greater significance and impact. It is still in water, and it is still done by man, but it is not just a sign of repentance, but the actual point at which the Holy Spirit acts to remove our sins. It is irrelevant that passages like Rom 6 and Col 2 don't mention water. There is only one baptism of any significance in the NT Church. And based on the preponderance of evidence in Scripture, that baptism MUST be in water. It is not "Spirit baptism".

The Spirit is indeed active in the baptism that brings about our salvation, but He takes action during our immersion into water.

Totally irrelevant!

Sorry you are simply disregarding the baptism of the one greater than man employing that which is greater than water

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Acts 1:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

[Fitzpatrick]

I am not adding anything to Scripture. The Scriptures are there for you to read too.

I said adding to salvation. When you add water baptism As being necessary for salvation It becomes a work.

“What must I do to be saved?” Paul and Silas gave him this answer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). The Bible says that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.

The Bible only presents one step to salvation is what my reading of the scriptures tell me... acts 16:31

 

[Julie]

For the most part, you are correct. Going to Church and giving to the poor are "good works" that do indeed flow out from having been saved. They are components of the "fruit of the Spirit", and are evidence of having been saved.

But baptism is different. There are direct commandments of God in Scripture that make baptism the point at which salvation is received. John 3:5 says that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God (the Church) unless we are born of Water (baptism) and the Spirit. 1 Pet 3:21 says that baptism in water, like the 8 who passed through the Flood and were saved, now saves us through faith in Jesus. Rom 6:1-7 and Col 2:11-14 both state that it is in baptism that we die to sin/have our sins cut from us, and are united to Jesus in His resurrection.

This is not me trying to add to what God did, or add conditions that I think make sense. They don't make any sense, any more than marching around a city makes sense to knock the walls down. But they are what God told us to do that He says will result in our salvation.

It's a fact that salvation by works seems right in the eyes of man. One of man’s basic desires is to be in control of his own destiny, and that includes his eternal destiny. Salvation by works appeals to man’s pride and his desire to be in control. Being saved by works appeals to that desire far more than the idea of being saved by faith alone.

That's the problem with insisting that it's necessary to be water baptized in order to be saved. You're taking a ritual that shows you've accepted Christ as your savior and turning it in to a works salvation.

 

[Believe]

No, I don't believe in "works salvation". I believe in Jesus, and what He told me to do is what I will preach. If you want to trust in your own understanding and defy Jesus' commands, that is your business. I am not held accountable for your decisions, only for what I preach.

I believe you, I believe you're not aware that you're lifting up work salvation by believe in that you have to be baptized in water to be saved.

Salvation is not about certain steps we must follow to earn salvation. Yes, Christians should be baptized. Yes, Christians should publicly confess Christ as Savior. Yes, Christians should turn from sin. Yes, Christians should commit their lives to obeying God. However, these are not steps to salvation. They are results of salvation.

When you make those steps necessary for salvation it becomes a Works Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus saved me from my sins when I agreed to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. The remission of sins. Does that look familiar?

You said water baptism saved you.

 

[brightfame52]

Cornelius was filled with the Holy Ghost, then immediately commanded to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sins.

Was Cornelius saved accepted by God before he was water baptized ?

 

[brightfame52]

You ignore the conditions

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[TomL]

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

still ignoring the conditional nature seen in the passages

You ignore the conditions

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[Truther]

You said water baptism saved you.

Jesus saved me via water baptism in his name.

 

[Truther]

Was Cornelius saved accepted by God before he was water baptized ?

Acceptance of a prayer is not the plan of salvation.

It opens the dialogue towards it.

 

[brightfame52]

still ignoring the conditional nature seen in the passages

You ignore the conditions

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus saved me via water baptism in his name.

Okay so water baptism saved you as well. You are giving credit to water baptism saving you plus Jesus

 

[brightfame52]

Acceptance of a prayer is not the plan of salvation.

It opens the dialogue towards it.

Yes it is, He worked righteousness Acts 10:35

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Was Cornelius saved accepted by God before he was water baptized ? Is a man accepted of God and worketh righteousness saved or not ?

 

[TomL]

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Conditions bolded

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Conditions bolded

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[TomL]

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Conditions bolded but ignored by you

 

[Aeliana]

Jesus saved me via water baptism in his name.

WOW. Unbelievable. He saved you by overcoming sin and death when he laid down his life and died on the cross and then rose from the grave. But to hear you tell it he saved you when you got yourself Water Baptized. These words of Jesus come to mind... The phrase “Depart from me, I never knew you” is a statement made by Jesus Christ in Matthew 7:23. It is a warning to those who claim to be followers of Jesus but do not truly know Him.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 11:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now as in the past there is a condition

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Conditions bolded but ignored by you

Its in the context:

This is Salvation by Grace:

Its clear as day, election of grace is without works/conditions Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.