He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Truther]

Whoever call upon the Lord will be saved, but how do we call on the Lord? Just calling Him Lord does not save (Matt 7:21). So how do we call on the name of the Lord and it result in salvation? By doing what He says (Matt 7:21).

You are correct that Rom 6:4 does not mention water.
But according to Eph 4:4-6 there is only one baptism of significance in the NT.
And according to 1 Pet 3:21 and Acts 8:36 that baptism is baptism into water.
And according to Matt 28:19 that baptism is an act that man does.
And according to Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-7 that baptism is the point at which our sins are cut from us, and we are united to Christ in His resurrection.
So the baptism in which we are saved does require water.

Jesus Christ was baptized. The church after Jesus is baptized into Christ’s baptism. You do realize that, correct?

 

[Truther]

Correct, he was saved first then he was baptized. It's good to see you're finally realizing the truth. Baptism didn't take away his sins it's a ceremony confirming that he was saved, that his sins were washed away by the blood of Jesus not water baptism.

Why, then, do some come to the conclusion that we must be baptized in order to be saved? Often, the discussion of whether or not this passage teaches baptism is required for salvation centers around the Greek word eis that is translated “for” in this passage. Those who hold to the belief that baptism is required for salvation are quick to point to this verse and the fact that it says “be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,” assuming that the word translated “for” in this verse means “in order to get.” However, in both Greek and English, there are many possible usages of the word “for.”

As an example, when one says “Take two aspirin for your headache,” it is obvious to everybody that it does not mean “take two aspirin in order to get your headache,” but instead to “take two aspirin because you already have a headache.” There are three possible meanings of the word “for” that might fit the context of Acts 2:38: 1--“in order to be, become, get, have, keep, etc.,” 2—“because of, as the result of,” or 3—“with regard to.” Since any one of the three meanings could fit the context of this passage, additional study is required in order to determine which one is correct.

We need to start by looking back to the original language and the meaning of the Greek word eis. This is a common Greek word (it is used 1774 times in the New Testament) that is translated many different ways. Like the English word “for” it can have several different meanings. So, again, we see at least two or three possible meanings of the passage, one that would seem to support that baptism is required for salvation and others that would not. While both the meanings of the Greek word eis are seen in different passages of Scripture, such noted Greek scholars as A.T. Robertson and J.R. Mantey have maintained that the Greek preposition eis in Acts 2:38 should be translated “because of” or “in view of,” and not “in order to,” or “for the purpose of.”

One example of how this preposition is used in other Scriptures is seen in Matthew 12:41 where the word eis communicates the “result” of an action. In this case it is said that the people of Nineveh “repented at the preaching of Jonah” (the word translated “at” is the same Greek word eis). Clearly, the meaning of this passage is that they repented “because of’” or “as the result of” Jonah’s preaching. In the same way, it would be possible that Acts 2:38 is indeed communicating the fact that they were to be baptized “as the result of” or “because” they already had believed and in doing so had already received forgiveness of their sins (John 1:12; John 3:14-18; John 5:24; John 11:25-26; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:31; Acts 26:18; Romans 10:9; Ephesians 1:12-14). This interpretation of the passage is also consistent with the message recorded in Peter’s next two sermons to unbelievers where he associates the forgiveness of sins with the act of repentance and faith in Christ without even mentioning baptism (Acts 3:17-26; Acts 4:8-12).
Got?

When someone receives the Holy Ghost that is not the remission of sins. Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins. Receiving the Holy Ghost will lead them to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins just like you see in Cornelius baptism.

 

[Believe]

That is not a good analogy, because there is nothing in Scripture that supports it. Baptism is not just an "outward expression of an inward conviction" according to Rom 6:1-7 and Col 2:11-14 and 1 Pet 3:21. These passages state that it is in baptism that we are saved, that our sins are cut from us, that we are united to Christ Jesus' resurrection, and made part of His family. These things are part of what it means to be saved, and they don't happen before baptism, they happen during baptism.

It's A wonderful analogy. Water baptism doesn't save you.

 

[Truther]

It's A wonderful analogy. Water baptism doesn't save you.

In the like figure water, baptism, doth now save us…

You just said exactly opposite of this verse.

 

[Truther]

“I know the verse says that water baptism saves us, but it really doesn’t”…
How can people say things like that? How can people think of things like that?
It must be modern Christendom at its finest.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's A wonderful analogy. Water baptism doesn't save you.

Believing in Jesus and doing nothing else doesn't save you. 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, John 3:5, and other passages say that baptism in water is the point at which we receive salvation. I think it is better to trust Scripture than to trust you.

 

[Truther]

Just for you all to realize, there are countless millions of Roman Catholic persons that have received the Holy Ghost, but have no remission of sins. Catholics are not saved.

 

[Truther]

Believing in all of our little micro doctrines does not save us. Faith alone does not save us. Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins saves us.

 

[TomL]

Whoever call upon the Lord will be saved, but how do we call on the Lord? Just calling Him Lord does not save (Matt 7:21). So how do we call on the name of the Lord and it result in salvation? By doing what He says (Matt 7:21).

You are correct that Rom 6:4 does not mention water.
But according to Eph 4:4-6 there is only one baptism of significance in the NT.

That of the spirit baptizing man into Christ, Not the symbolic baptism with water

I say with because the bible never speaks of baptism into water

Hebrews 6:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The context of Eph 4 speaks of the body and the spirit as we see here

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

this baptism is that of the Spirit not water

And according to 1 Pet 3:21 and Acts 8:36 that baptism is baptism into water.

Acts 8;36 speaks of a baptism with water not a baptism into Christ

and these are not baptisms into or with water

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Acts 1:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

And according to Matt 28:19 that baptism is an act that man does.

and according to

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Acts 1:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


The spirit not water is the baptizing element

And according to Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-7 that baptism is the point at which our sins are cut from us, and we are united to Christ in His resurrection.
So the baptism in which we are saved does require water.

again there is no water in Romans 6 or Col 2:11-14 for that matter

 

[Truther]

I am so glad that the disciples of John per Acts chapter 19 were rebaptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Can you imagine if those same 12 disciples lived today and Paul tells them to get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ when they were already baptized?

They would tell Paul get lost.

They would rebuke Paul in the name of their religious organization.

 

[Truther]

Can you imagine if these modern Christians were there when Peter told the 3000 what they should do? As soon as Peter would say “repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins… “, They would stop him in front of everybody and say “wait, your sins were remitted before you even repented., Peter, tell them the truth.”

They would then remove Peter from the platform and put up Andrew Farley or somebody like that.

We are living in the end times.

 

[Julie]

Julie, there is only one baptism of any significance in the NT Church (Eph 4:4-6).
And according to 1 Pet 3:21 and Mark 16:16 that baptism is when we receive salvation.
And according to 1 Pet 3:21 and Acts 8:36 that baptism is baptism into water.
And according to Matt 28:19 that baptism is an act that man does.
And according to Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-7 that baptism is the point at which our sins are cut from us, and we are united to Christ in His resurrection.

So, according to all of those pieces of evidence, baptism in water is the point at which we are saved.

You can add any number of conditions to faith which is required for salvation, and the person can still be saved. They are just holding to a works salvation .For example if a person believes, is baptized, goes to church, and gives to the poor he will be saved. Where the error in thinking occurs is if one assumes all these other conditions, “baptism, going to church, giving to the poor,” are required for one to be saved. While they might be the evidence of salvation, they are not a requirement for salvation.

 

[Believe]

Believing in Jesus and doing nothing else doesn't save you. 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, John 3:5, and other passages say that baptism in water is the point at which we receive salvation. I think it is better to trust Scripture than to trust you.

No one asked you to trust me. If you want to believe in a works salvation that's fine with me.

 

[Truther]

Is Acts 2:38 Grace or not?

 

[Doug Brents]

That of the spirit baptizing man into Christ, Not the symbolic baptism with water

I say with because the bible never speaks of baptism into water

Hebrews 6:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The context of Eph 4 speaks of the body and the spirit as we see here

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

this baptism is that of the Spirit not water

The Bible talks about baptism in water all over the place. 1 Pet 3:21 specifically says that it is baptism in water that now saves us. In Acts 8:36 we see that Philip taught the eunuch about salvation through water baptism because it was the eunuch who asked to be baptized as they were passing some water. Matt 28:19 gives direction for the Apostles (and through them all of us) to baptize all new disciples. Man cannot cause the Holy Spirit to act, so Jesus was not instructing them to baptize disciples in the Holy Spirit, but in water.

Acts 8;36 speaks of a baptism with water not a baptism into Christ

and these are not baptisms into or with water

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Acts 1:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

The baptism of the NT Church is modeled after the baptism of John, but it has greater significance and impact. It is still in water, and it is still done by man, but it is not just a sign of repentance, but the actual point at which the Holy Spirit acts to remove our sins. It is irrelevant that passages like Rom 6 and Col 2 don't mention water. There is only one baptism of any significance in the NT Church. And based on the preponderance of evidence in Scripture, that baptism MUST be in water. It is not "Spirit baptism".

and according to

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Acts 1:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

The spirit not water is the baptizing element

The Spirit is indeed active in the baptism that brings about our salvation, but He takes action during our immersion into water.

again there is no water in Romans 6 or Col 2:11-14 for that matter

Totally irrelevant!

 

[Truther]

Who in this forum has been baptized like these folks in Acts, spanning 17 chapters, were?...


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ...

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)...

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus....

 

[Doug Brents]

You can add any number of conditions to faith which is required for salvation, and the person can still be saved. They are just holding to a works salvation .For example if a person believes, is baptized, goes to church, and gives to the poor he will be saved. Where the error in thinking occurs is if one assumes all these other conditions, “baptism, going to church, giving to the poor,” are required for one to be saved. While they might be the evidence of salvation, they are not a requirement for salvation.

For the most part, you are correct. Going to Church and giving to the poor are "good works" that do indeed flow out from having been saved. They are components of the "fruit of the Spirit", and are evidence of having been saved.

But baptism is different. There are direct commandments of God in Scripture that make baptism the point at which salvation is received. John 3:5 says that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God (the Church) unless we are born of Water (baptism) and the Spirit. 1 Pet 3:21 says that baptism in water, like the 8 who passed through the Flood and were saved, now saves us through faith in Jesus. Rom 6:1-7 and Col 2:11-14 both state that it is in baptism that we die to sin/have our sins cut from us, and are united to Jesus in His resurrection.

This is not me trying to add to what God did, or add conditions that I think make sense. They don't make any sense, any more than marching around a city makes sense to knock the walls down. But they are what God told us to do that He says will result in our salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

No one asked you to trust me. If you want to believe in a works salvation that's fine with me.

No, I don't believe in "works salvation". I believe in Jesus, and what He told me to do is what I will preach. If you want to trust in your own understanding and defy Jesus' commands, that is your business. I am not held accountable for your decisions, only for what I preach.

 

[Truther]

For the most part, you are correct. Going to Church and giving to the poor are "good works" that do indeed flow out from having been saved. They are components of the "fruit of the Spirit", and are evidence of having been saved.

But baptism is different. There are direct commandments of God in Scripture that make baptism the point at which salvation is received. John 3:5 says that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God (the Church) unless we are born of Water (baptism) and the Spirit. 1 Pet 3:21 says that baptism in water, like the 8 who passed through the Flood and were saved, now saves us through faith in Jesus. Rom 6:1-7 and Col 2:11-14 both state that it is in baptism that we die to sin/have our sins cut from us, and are united to Jesus in His resurrection.

This is not me trying to add to what God did, or add conditions that I think make sense. They don't make any sense, any more than marching around a city makes sense to knock the walls down. But they are what God told us to do that He says will result in our salvation.

Everything in Christendom is twilight zone teaching.

The works that we are not saved by is the OT Law.

That is what it is speaking of.

Not NT faith based work.

We are living in a weird day indeed.

Buncha lazy, antibaptismalists misquoting the Bible.

 

[Truther]

Who in this forum has been baptized like these folks in Acts, spanning 17 chapters, were?...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ...
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)...
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus....

These are all Grace to mankind.