Great discussion how Augustine influenced modern day view of Romans
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Reading through Romans is one of the things that convinced Calvinism is true.
Eternally-Grateful
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Romans 1-7 Total Depravity. Romans 8-9 Gods sovereign unconditional election, and limited atonement. And so on.....
Eternally-Grateful
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wow
ok. never seen this in romans 1 - 7. romans 1 - 7 just shows our need and our want and gives us the answer
Romans 8 tells those of us who responded in faith and received hi gift what we have
romans 9 - 11 is Paul answering the jewish Question. (Did God make a mistake choosing Israel) and showing us in the end, he did not make a mistake. Although Israel is blinded in part now. they will all be saved. Gods gifts are irrevokabe. His gift was to Abraham Isaac and Jacob..
when people say God is done with Israel. They say God is done with his promise to these three..
the rest of romans is Paul telling us, we are saved. now what..
You have never seen it before? I have every time i read it. Good question though. Now what?
Romans 1-7 is about our want? How so?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
did you believe in calvinism first or after?
romans 1 is Pauls cry to the gentile. showing them they have no excuse
romans 2 is to the jew. showing them they are really no better
romans 3 is putting it all together, then showing us we are all (jew and Gentile) under sin and finally. showing us the atonement purchased for all of us. how it is of faith. boastin gis included
romans 4 is Paul taking us back to before the law. and showing us our father. and that it is faith not of works.. And how we today are saved by the same faith that Abraham showed all the way back in Gen 15. and how david proclaimed that same truth
romans 5 is again focusing on faith.. now that we have been justified by faith;. now what and then explainging where this faith came from. and what we were saved, In adam vs in christ.
romans 6 is calling us who have been saved by faith that we are dead to sin. and alive to christ. so live like it
romans 7 is again arguing against the jewsih lie. that we are saved by the law.
romas 8 is our assurance, there is therefore no condemnation to us in christ.
sorry,. I di not see total depravity in these passages.. I see Paul explaining to 2 groups the romans road to salvation. and what we recieve, and what we do now.
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Romans 3 does not address the. atonement.
Romans is about where faith comrs from? Where?
Romans 3 is ripe with total depravity as is chapter 7.
Eternally-Grateful
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not sure what bible you read.
We are justified. because we are redeemed through the blood of the lamb (christ)
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
lol.. The problem you have is, Paul is calling us to9 have faith in romans 3. Total depravity says one can not have faith.. so paul wasted his words.
But think you. You show me where you get your understanding from.
No one claimed anything different.
Wrong. You can have faith when God gifts it to you. Then you have faith. Your saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH, not because of faith.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
lol
your speaking reformed
Just interpret the word by what it says.
I showed you in romans 3 where we are called to have faith be we jew or Gentile
you can believe it. Or you can try to add to it.
no matter what. Total depravity is not in Romans 3.
You interpret by what you think it says dont you? LOL
Nothing about the atonement in Romans 3.
We are called to have faith. We are also called to keep the law perfectly. Can you keep the law perfectly???
Eternally-Grateful
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Eternally-Grateful
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wrong, I already proved otherwise
Everyone is called to have faith. If we believe we are not condemned. if we remain in unbelief we will remain condemned.
Neither so I. Now what?
No. You proved nothing. You quoted some text and claimed contextually its dealing with the atonement.
We sure are. Again, nothing to do with the atonement.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
lol
You sure about that
You claim there is no atonement in Romans 3. Its there in plain site.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
as long as you continue to say this. We will never come to any agreement.
I already proved atonement is there. Not just by what I said. but by the words paul spoke.
If you can not see it,. I can not help you. and we might as well move on
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