God's attribute of Justice demands PSA

[101G]

According to Revelation 4:2-3, the one who sits on the throne in heaven is not explicitly identified, but is described as having the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald. However, based on the context of the passage and other passages in the Bible, it is generally understood to be God the Father who sits on the throne in heaven

agent "J" listen up, Revelation 4:10 "The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying," Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
agent "J" who is the "Lord?". when you answer that then you will know who sits on the throne.

101G.

 

[101G]

Therefore, while the identity of the one sitting on the throne in Revelation is not explicitly stated, it is generally understood to be God the Father, with Jesus also having a throne.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and sat down with My Father in His throne.

Simple-right? No mental gymnastics required.

(smile), listen to the mental gymnastics, Revelation 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." (Can you jump this mental gymnastics Huttle of ONE here, and ONLY ONE SITS on the throne?). Revelation 4:3 "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."

are we clear in our heads that here in Chapter 4 only ONE SITS ON THE THRONE.

101G

 

[101G]

@synergy, and @TomL,
when are U 2 going to post the book chapter and verse as to who gave the Father POWER? I'm sure this is at you-all fingertips.

101G.

 

[TomL]

LOL, LOL, LOL, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." so the Lord is at the LORD right ... correct... same chapter now verse 5, Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."

the same "Lord" in verse 1 is LISTEN,
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

and you do know what "emphatic" means right?

so the Lord is the LORD..... (smile), so look up the term "Lord" in verse 5,

101G.

One person LORD capital YHWH

Another person adonai who YHWH was speaking to

113 אָדֹון [ʾadown, or (shortened), ʾadon /aw·done/] n m. From an unused root (meaning to rule); TWOT 27b; GK 123; 335 occurrences; AV translates as “lord” 197 times, “master(s)” 105 times, “Lord” 31 times, “owner” once, and “sir” once. 1 firm, strong, lord, master. 1A lord, master. 1A1 reference to men. 1A1A superintendent of household,of affairs. 1A1B master. 1A1C king. 1A2 reference to God. 1A2A the Lord God. 1A2B Lord of the whole earth. 1B lords, kings. 1B1 reference to men. 1B1A proprietor of hill of Samaria. 1B1B master. 1B1C husband. 1B1D prophet. 1B1E governor. 1B1F prince. 1B1G king. 1B2 reference to God. 1B2A Lord of lords (probably = “thy husband, Yahweh”). 1C my lord, my master. 1C1 reference to men. 1C1A master. 1C1B husband. 1C1C prophet. 1C1D prince. 1C1E king. 1C1F father. 1C1G Moses. 1C1H priest. 1C1I theophanic angel. 1C1J captain. 1C1K general recognition of superiority. 1C2 reference to God. 1C2A my Lord,my Lord and my God. 1C2B Adonai (parallel with Yahweh).

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

Where are your modes here

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


where we see three persons simultaneously

Below we have two persons God and the word

John 1:1–2 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.


below have Jesus crying out to the father

Matthew 27:46 (KJV 1900) — 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Was there a mode switch again

Was your Jesus just a man now?

John 17:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Father and son together in eternity oops simultaneously


The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand” (John 3:35).

For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greaterworks than these will He show Him, so that you will marvel” (John 5:20).

Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love” (John 15:9).“I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know thatYou sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that they also, whomYou have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You havegiven Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world” (John 17:23–24).

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of thecloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” (Matthew17:5).

John 5:17 (ESV) — 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

John 8:49 (ESV) — 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

Matthew 10:32 (ESV) — 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,

Luke 22:29 (ESV) — 29 and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom,

John 15:8 (ESV) — 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.

John 10:29 (ESV) — 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[TomL]

@synergy, and @TomL,
when are U 2 going to post the book chapter and verse as to who gave the Father POWER? I'm sure this is at you-all fingertips.

101G.

You have not shown the father was given power

hello

You have been asked multiple time to show a verse which states that

But for some reason you never post one

When are you going to post the verse?

 

[101G]

One person LORD capital YHWH

Another person adonai who YHWH was speaking to

ERROR, source #1. Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

SOURCE #2. Brown-Driver-Briggs and here is the link just for U, (smile). https://biblehub.com/hebrew/113.htm
b. Adonay proper name of God, parallel with Yahweh, substitution for it often by scribal error, & eventually supplanting it. In earlier Isaiah 3:17 + (19 t. seeming to belong here), Amos 7:7,8; Amos 9:1; Ezekiel 18:25,29; Ezekiel 33:17,20; Ezekiel 21:14 (probably ׳אֲדֹנָי י as in usual phrase); Zechariah 9:4; Malachi 1:12,14; Lamentations 1:14 + (14 t.) Psalm 2:4; Psalm 37:13; Psalm 78:65; Psalm 90:17 (? יהוה) Psalm 110:5 (Dalman puts most of these below (a); — many cases are doubtful); 1 Kings 3:10,15 (Masoretic אדני for יהוה compare Dalm 2 Kings 7:6; Dalm rightly questions; he reads יהוה). The phrases אֲדֹנָי אֱלֹהַי Psalm 38:16; Psalm 86:12, Adonay my God; אֲדֹנָי הָאֱלֹהִים Daniel 9:3, אֱלֹהֵינוּ ׳א Daniel 9:9,15, הָאֵל ׳א Daniel 9:4 favour taking ׳א Daniel 1:2; Daniel 9:7,8 (יהוה ?) Daniel 9:16; Daniel 9:17; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19 as the divine name.

101G.

 

[101G]

You have not shown the father was given power

no, that's your Job..... lol, lol, lol, are you changing your tune. are you now saying the one who sits on the throne is not the Father now? yes or no.

see REVELATION 4:11 the one sits on the throne is given power. .....
101G.

 

[Johann]

ERROR, he who Sits is the "Lord", see 4:11

ok, Good, as 101G asked who gave the Father "POWER" book, chapter, and verse, .... please/

ERROR, it is clear that the "Lord" sits at the Right hand which is an anthropomorphism for "POWER", and Psalms 110:1 & 5 makes this clear. so there is ONLY ONE THRONE.

101G.

Uh-no.

To him that overcometh . . The construction is as in Rev_2:26, Rev_3:12, “He that overcometh, I will give him.” For the sense, compare the former of these passages; but the promise of sharing Christ’s inheritance (Rom_8:17) is even more fully expressed here. - CBSC

him who overcomes -- (The one who conquers, ESV) -- The one who endures in faith and following Christ. See note on Rev_2:7.

sit with me . . The reward for victorious and obedient faith is to sit with Christ on his throne. Christians do not become divine, but they share in Christ’s victorious reign (Rev_20:4, Rev_20:6; Rev_22:5; Col_3:1-4; 2Ti_2:12). - NLTSB

sit with me on my throne . . Jesus shares his Father’s throne as Messianic king and judge (Rev_22:3; Psa_110:1; Heb_1:3; and believers share in his reign (Rev_5:10; Rev_20:4; Rev_22:5; 2Ti_2:12; cf. Mat_19:28). - NIVSB

A figurative expression meaning that we will share the privilege and authority that Christ enjoys as we reign with Him (Rev_1:6; Mat_19:28; Luk_22:29-30). - MSB

as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne . . It is wonderful to know that Jesus has already overcome the world (cf. Joh_16:33; Eph_1:21-22) and that He is already seated at the Father’s right hand (cf. Eph_1:20; 1Jn_2:1 and Rev_22:1) and that He wants us to join Him in His victory! - Utley

(smile), listen to the mental gymnastics, Revelation 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." (Can you jump this mental gymnastics Huttle of ONE here, and ONLY ONE SITS on the throne?). Revelation 4:3 "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."

are we clear in our heads that here in Chapter 4 only ONE SITS ON THE THRONE.

101G

In Revelation, there is one throne that represents the Lord God Almighty, and around this throne are 24 additional thrones for the 24 elders

. However, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus promises to grant the overcomer the right to sit with him on his throne, implying that there are two thrones mentioned in this context
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
with ἐμοῦ emou|G1473|PPro-G1S|Me ἐν en|G1722|Prep|on τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DMS|the θρόνῳ thronō|G2362|N-DMS|throne μου, mou|G1473|PPro-G1S|of Me, ὡς hōs|G5613|Adv|as κἀγὼ kagō|G2504|PPro-N1S|I also ἐνίκησα enikēsa|G3528|V-AIA-1S|overcame καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and ἐκάθισα ekathisa|G2523|V-AIA-1S|sat down μετὰ meta|G3326|Prep|with τοῦ tou|G3588|Art-GMS|the Πατρός Patros|G3962|N-GMS|Father μου mou|G1473|PPro-G1S|of Me ἐν en|G1722|Prep|on τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DMS|the θρόνῳ thronō|G2362|N-DMS|throne αὐτοῦ. autou|G846|PPro-GM3S|of Him.
sit with me . . The reward for victorious and obedient faith is to sit with Christ on his throne. Christians do not become divine, but they share in Christ’s victorious reign (Rev_20:4, Rev_20:6; Rev_22:5; Col_3:1-4; 2Ti_2:12). - NLTSB

sit with me on my throne . . Jesus shares his Father’s throne as Messianic king and judge (Rev_22:3; Psa_110:1; Heb_1:3; and believers share in his reign (Rev_5:10; Rev_20:4; Rev_22:5; 2Ti_2:12; cf. Mat_19:28). - NIVSB

A figurative expression meaning that we will share the privilege and authority that Christ enjoys as we reign with Him (Rev_1:6; Mat_19:28; Luk_22:29-30). - MSB

as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne . . It is wonderful to know that Jesus has already overcome the world (cf. Joh_16:33; Eph_1:21-22) and that He is already seated at the Father’s right hand (cf. Eph_1:20; 1Jn_2:1 and Rev_22:1) and that He wants us to join Him in His victory! - Utley


. Therefore, the number of thrones in heaven, as described in Revelation, is at least two, with one throne for God the Father and another for Jesus, who shares authority with God the Father.

No mental gymnastics-
J.

 

[TomL]

ERROR, source #1. Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

SOURCE #2. Brown-Driver-Briggs and here is the link just for U, (smile). https://biblehub.com/hebrew/113.htm
b. Adonay proper name of God, parallel with Yahweh, substitution for it often by scribal error, & eventually supplanting it. In earlier Isaiah 3:17 + (19 t. seeming to belong here), Amos 7:7,8; Amos 9:1; Ezekiel 18:25,29; Ezekiel 33:17,20; Ezekiel 21:14 (probably ׳אֲדֹנָי י as in usual phrase); Zechariah 9:4; Malachi 1:12,14; Lamentations 1:14 + (14 t.) Psalm 2:4; Psalm 37:13; Psalm 78:65; Psalm 90:17 (? יהוה) Psalm 110:5 (Dalman puts most of these below (a); — many cases are doubtful); 1 Kings 3:10,15 (Masoretic אדני for יהוה compare Dalm 2 Kings 7:6; Dalm rightly questions; he reads יהוה). The phrases אֲדֹנָי אֱלֹהַי Psalm 38:16; Psalm 86:12, Adonay my God; אֲדֹנָי הָאֱלֹהִים Daniel 9:3, אֱלֹהֵינוּ ׳א Daniel 9:9,15, הָאֵל ׳א Daniel 9:4 favour taking ׳א Daniel 1:2; Daniel 9:7,8 (יהוה ?) Daniel 9:16; Daniel 9:17; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19 as the divine name.

101G.

Try again

This is the expanded strongs

113 אָדֹון [ʾadown, or (shortened), ʾadon /aw·done/] n m. From an unused root (meaning to rule); TWOT 27b; GK 123; 335 occurrences; AV translates as “lord” 197 times, “master(s)” 105 times, “Lord” 31 times, “owner” once, and “sir” once. 1 firm, strong, lord, master. 1A lord, master. 1A1 reference to men. 1A1A superintendent of household,of affairs. 1A1B master. 1A1C king. 1A2 reference to God. 1A2A the Lord God. 1A2B Lord of the whole earth. 1B lords, kings. 1B1 reference to men. 1B1A proprietor of hill of Samaria. 1B1B master. 1B1C husband. 1B1D prophet. 1B1E governor. 1B1F prince. 1B1G king. 1B2 reference to God. 1B2A Lord of lords (probably = “thy husband, Yahweh”). 1C my lord, my master. 1C1 reference to men. 1C1A master. 1C1B husband. 1C1C prophet. 1C1D prince. 1C1E king. 1C1F father. 1C1G Moses. 1C1H priest. 1C1I theophanic angel. 1C1J captain. 1C1K general recognition of superiority. 1C2 reference to God. 1C2A my Lord,my Lord and my God. 1C2B Adonai (parallel with Yahweh).

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

and the enhanced BDB

S113, 136 TWOT27b GK123, 151 n.m. Mal 3:1 lord (Ph. אדן)—א׳ ψ 12:5 + cstr. אֲדוֹן Jos 3:11 +; pl. אֲדֹנִים Is 26:13 +; cstr. אֲדֹנֵי Dt 10:17 +; sf. אֲדֹנֵינוּ 1 S 25:14 + etc.; (אֲדֹנִי, אֲדֹנַי, אֲדֹנָי are variations of Mass. pointing to distinguish divine reference fr. human. Pl., with few except an intens. pl. of rank; word takes sf. as pl. in all other pers.; so doubtless here. Orig. reading prob. in all cases אֲדֹנַי (v. DalmanDer Gottesname Adonaj; Lag 188 makes אֲדֹנָי an Aramaic format.); אֲדֹנִי now found in J 51 textual; in E †Gn 31:35; 32:19; 42:10 Ex 21:5; in P †Gn 23:6, 11, 15 Nu 36:2() often S & K in Chr only in sources, 1 Ch 21:3(), 23 ( = 2 S 24:3, 22) 2 Ch 2:13, 14; Is & Je only in hist. parts Is 36:8, 9, 12 Je 37:20; 38:9; elsewhere †Dn 1:10; 10:16, 17, 19; 12:8 Zc 1:9; 4:4, 5, 13; 6:4 ψ 110:1 Ju 4:18; 6:13 Ru 2:13; בִּי אֲדנָי †Ex 4:10, 13; Jos 7:8 (J) Ju 6:15; 13:8 is referred to God, but בִּי אֲדנִי †Gn 43:20; 44:18 Nu 12:11 (J) 1 S 1:26; 25:24 ( + אני) 1 K 3:17, 26 to human superiors. There is doubt as to אֲדֹנָ֯י Gn 18:3; 19:18; אֲדֹ֯נַי 19:2)—† 1. sg. lord, master (1) ref. to men: (a) supt. of household, or of affairs Gn 45:8, 9 (E) = ψ 105:21; (b) master ψ 12:5; (c) king Je 22:18; 34:5; (2) ref. to God, הָאָדוֹן יהוה the Lord Yahweh (v. יהוה) Ex 23:17; 34:23 (Cov’t codes); אֲדוֹן כָּל־הָאָרֶץ Lord of the whole earth Jos 3:11, 13 (J) ψ 97:5 Zc 4:14; 6:5 Mi 4:13; צְבָאוֹת הָא׳ י׳, earlier Is 1:24; 3:1; 10:33; 19:4 (אֲדֹנָי Is 10:16 in common MT; not Massora, doubtless scrib. error); הָא׳ Mal 3:1; אָדוֹן ψ 114:7. 2. pl. lords, kings Dt 10:17 = ψ 136:3; Is 26:13 masters Am 4:1, elsewhere intens. pl. of rank, lord, master, (1) ref. to men: (a) proprietor of hill Samaria †1 K 16:24; (b) master Gn 40:7 (E) Ex 21:4(), 6, 8, 32 (Cov’t code) Gn 24:9 + (J, 11 times) Dt 23:16 Ju 19:11, 12 + 13 times S & K; Jb 3:19 ψ 123:2 Pr 25:13; 27:18; 30:10 Is 24:2 Zp 1:9 Mal 1:6() (c) husband Ju 19:26, 27 ψ 45:12; (d) prophet 2 K 2:3, 5, 16; (e) governor Ne 3:5; (f) prince Gn 42:10, 30, 33 (E) 44:8 (J) 1 S 29:10; (g) king Gn 40:1 (E) Ju 3:25 + 40 times S & K; Ch only in sources 1 Ch 12:19 cf. 1 S 29:4; 2 Ch 13:6; 18:16 = 1 K 22:17; Is 19:4; 22:18; 36:12; 37:4, 6 Je 27:4; (2) ref. to God Mal 1:6; אֲדֹנֵי הָאֲדֹנִים Lord of lords Dt 10:17 = ψ 136:3; אֲדֹנֵינוּ ψ 135:5; 147:5 Ne 8:10; י׳אֲדֹנֵינוּ ψ 8:2, 10 Ne 10:30; אֲדֹנַיִךְ י׳ Is 51:22 (prob. = thy husband, Yahweh); אֲדֹנָיו Ho 12:15 (possibly error for אֲדֹנָי). 3. sf. 1 s. אֲדֹנִי (אֲדֹנַי) (1) ref. to men: my lord, my master, (a) master Ex 21:5 (Cov’t code) Gn 24:12 +, 44:5 (J, 20 times) 1 S 30:13, 15 2 K 5:3, 20, 22; 6:15; (b) husband Gn 18:12 (J); (c) prophet 1 K 18:7, 13 2 K 2:19, 4:16, 28; 6:5; 8:5; (d) prince Gn 42:10 (E), 23:6, 11, 15 (P), 43:20; 44:18 +, 47:18, + (J, 12 times); Ju 4:18; (e) king 1 S 22:12 + (S & K 75 times); (f) father Gn 31:35 (E); (g) Moses Ex 32:22 Nu 11:28; 12:11; 32:25, 27 (J); 36:2() (P); (h) priest 1 S 1:15, 26(); (i) theophanic angel Jos 5:14 Ju 6:13; (j) captain 2 S 11:11; (k) general recognition of superiority Gn 24:18; 32:5 +; 33:8 +; 44:7 + (J, 13 times), Ru 2:13 1 S 25:24 + (15 times); (2) ref. to God: אֲדֹנָי a. my Lord Gn 20:4 (?E) Ex 15:17 (Sam. יהוה) elsewhere in Hex, J; Gn 18:3(?), 27, 30, 31, 32; 19:2, 18(?) Ex 4:10, 13; 5:22; 34:9 Nu 14:17 Jos 7:8; also Ju 6:15; 13:8; not S; 1 K 22:6 2 K 19:23; noChron exc. memorials Ezr 10:3 (ref. to Ezra) Ne 1:11; 4:8; WisdLt only Jb 28:28 (doubtless scrib. error for יהוֹה of many MSS.); not Ho; Is 37:24; 38:16 (hist. part); exile Is 49:14 (cf. 51:22); Mi 1:2 ψ 16:2 + (47 times, chiefly this sense, exc. sub b.; cf. אֱלֹהַי וַאדֹנָי my Lord and my God ψ 35:23; (writers that use אֱלהִים seld. use אֲדֹנָי); b. Adonay n.pr. of God, parallel with Yahweh, substit. for it oft. by scrib. error, & eventually supplanting it. In earlier Is 3:17 + (19 times seeming to belong here), Am 7:7, 8; 9:1 Ez 18:25, 29; 33:17, 20; 21:12 (prob. אֲדֹנָי י׳ as in usual phrase); Zc 9:4 Mal 1:12, 14 La 1:14 + (14 times) ψ 2:4; 37:13; 78:65; 90:17 (? יהוה) 110:5 (Dalman puts most of these sub (a);—many cases are doubtful); 1 K 3:10, 15 (Mass. אדני for יהוה cf. Dalm. 2 K 7:6; Dalm. rightly questions; he reads יהוה). The phrases אֲדֹנָי אֱלֹהַי ψ 38:16; 86:12, Adonay my God; אֲדֹנָי הָאֱלֹהִים Dn 9:3, א׳ אֱלֹהֵינוּ 9:9, 15, א׳ הָאֵל Dn 9:4 favour taking א׳ Dn 1:2; 9:7, 8 (יהוה?) v 16, 17, 19() as the divine name. 4. אֲדֹנָי יהוה (a) my Lord Yahweh (v. יהוה) Gn 15:2, 8 (JE) Jos 7:7 (J, 𝔊 om. י׳) Dt 3:24; 9:26 Ju 6:22; 16:28 2 S 7 (6times) 1 K 2:26; 8:53; prob. Am 3:7, 8; 7:2, 4, 5; 9:8 Je 1:6; 4:10; 14:13; 32:17, 25 Ez 4:14; 8:1; 9:8; 11:13; 20:39; 37:3 (יָדַע כִּי אֲני א׳ י׳) 13:9; 23:49; 24:24; 28:24; 29:16 inappropriate in mouth of God; del. אֲדֹנָי (Co) or read י׳ אֱלֹהֵיכֶם (Dalm.); Mi 1:2 Zp 1:7 Ob 1 Zc 9:14 ψ 71:5, 16; 73:28; (b) appar. n.pr. Adonay Yahweh Is 25:8 Je 44:26; exil. Is 40:10 + (10 times, but 61:1, 11 read יהוה, 𝔊); (c) uncertain whether (a) or (b) in proph. formula אָמַר א׳ י׳ Is 7:7; 28:16; 30:15; 49:22; 52:4; 65:13 Je 7:20 Am 1:8; 3:11; 5:3; 7:6 Ob 1 Ez (131 times); נְאֻם א׳ י׳ Is 56:8 Je 2:22 Am 3:13; 4:5; 8:3, 9, 11 Ez (80 times); דְּבַר־א׳ י׳ Ez 6:3; 25:3; 36:4; נִשְׁבַּע א׳ י׳ Am 4:2; 6:8; כֹּה הִרְאַנִי א׳ י׳ Am 7:1, 4; 8:1. 5. יהוה אֲדֹנָי Yahweh my Lord ψ 68:21; 109:21; 140:8; 141:8 Hb 3:19. 6. אֲדֹנָי יהוה צְבָאוֹת (a) my Lord Yahweh Ṣ. (v. צבאות) ψ 69:7 Am 9:5 Is 10:23; 22:5, 12; 28:22 cf. י׳ אֱלֹהֵי הַצְבָאוֹת א׳, Yahweh, the God of Hosts my Lord Am 5:16; (b) a divine name, Adonay, Yahweh Ṣ. Je 46:10(); 50:25; (c) uncertain are כֹּה אָמַר א׳ י׳ צ׳ Is 10:24; 22:14, 15; נְאֻם א׳ י׳ צ׳ Is 3:15 Je 2:19; 49:5; 50:31.

Francis Brown, Samuel Rolles Driver, and Charles Augustus Briggs, Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), 10–11.

 

[101G]

Uh-no.

To him that overcometh . . The construction is as in Rev_2:26, Rev_3:12, “He that overcometh, I will give him.” For the sense, compare the former of these passages; but the promise of sharing Christ’s inheritance (Rom_8:17) is even more fully expressed here. - CBSC

him who overcomes -- (The one who conquers, ESV) -- The one who endures in faith and following Christ. See note on Rev_2:7.

sit with me . . The reward for victorious and obedient faith is to sit with Christ on his throne. Christians do not become divine, but they share in Christ’s victorious reign (Rev_20:4, Rev_20:6; Rev_22:5; Col_3:1-4; 2Ti_2:12). - NLTSB

sit with me on my throne . . Jesus shares his Father’s throne as Messianic king and judge (Rev_22:3; Psa_110:1; Heb_1:3; and believers share in his reign (Rev_5:10; Rev_20:4; Rev_22:5; 2Ti_2:12; cf. Mat_19:28). - NIVSB

A figurative expression meaning that we will share the privilege and authority that Christ enjoys as we reign with Him (Rev_1:6; Mat_19:28; Luk_22:29-30). - MSB

as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne . . It is wonderful to know that Jesus has already overcome the world (cf. Joh_16:33; Eph_1:21-22) and that He is already seated at the Father’s right hand (cf. Eph_1:20; 1Jn_2:1 and Rev_22:1) and that He wants us to join Him in His victory! - Utley

In Revelation, there is one throne that represents the Lord God Almighty, and around this throne are 24 additional thrones for the 24 elders

. However, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus promises to grant the overcomer the right to sit with him on his throne, implying that there are two thrones mentioned in this context
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
with ἐμοῦ emou|G1473|PPro-G1S|Me ἐν en|G1722|Prep|on τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DMS|the θρόνῳ thronō|G2362|N-DMS|throne μου, mou|G1473|PPro-G1S|of Me, ὡς hōs|G5613|Adv|as κἀγὼ kagō|G2504|PPro-N1S|I also ἐνίκησα enikēsa|G3528|V-AIA-1S|overcame καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and ἐκάθισα ekathisa|G2523|V-AIA-1S|sat down μετὰ meta|G3326|Prep|with τοῦ tou|G3588|Art-GMS|the Πατρός Patros|G3962|N-GMS|Father μου mou|G1473|PPro-G1S|of Me ἐν en|G1722|Prep|on τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DMS|the θρόνῳ thronō|G2362|N-DMS|throne αὐτοῦ. autou|G846|PPro-GM3S|of Him.
sit with me . . The reward for victorious and obedient faith is to sit with Christ on his throne. Christians do not become divine, but they share in Christ’s victorious reign (Rev_20:4, Rev_20:6; Rev_22:5; Col_3:1-4; 2Ti_2:12). - NLTSB

sit with me on my throne . . Jesus shares his Father’s throne as Messianic king and judge (Rev_22:3; Psa_110:1; Heb_1:3; and believers share in his reign (Rev_5:10; Rev_20:4; Rev_22:5; 2Ti_2:12; cf. Mat_19:28). - NIVSB

A figurative expression meaning that we will share the privilege and authority that Christ enjoys as we reign with Him (Rev_1:6; Mat_19:28; Luk_22:29-30). - MSB

as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne . . It is wonderful to know that Jesus has already overcome the world (cf. Joh_16:33; Eph_1:21-22) and that He is already seated at the Father’s right hand (cf. Eph_1:20; 1Jn_2:1 and Rev_22:1) and that He wants us to join Him in His victory! - Utley


. Therefore, the number of thrones in heaven, as described in Revelation, is at least two, with one throne for God the Father and another for Jesus, who shares authority with God the Father.

No mental gymnastics-
J.

it's only one throne. HOD IT.... 101G see your problem. you think it's an actual physical throne like a chair or something right? ....WRONG, there is no physical throne/chair in heaven. this is a representation of the SOURCE of POWER. my God guys come on. just as sitting on the RIGHT Hand or Arm, it's here an anthropomorphism, guys, guys, guys, there is no actual physical throne like a chair or something in heaven. I hope you-all are not thinking that way.... are U?

101G.

101G.

 

[TomL]

no, that's your Job..... lol, lol, lol, are you changing your tune. are you now saying the one who sits on the throne is not the Father now? yes or no.

see REVELATION 4:11 the one sits on the throne is given power. .....
101G.

Sorry you made up the question, but you have not shown that there is verse which states the Father was given power

which would be a problem for you are you believe Jesus is both father and son

Deal with these

Where are your modes here

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


where we see three persons simultaneously

Below we have two persons God and the word

John 1:1–2 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.


below have Jesus crying out to the father

Matthew 27:46 (KJV 1900) — 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Was there a mode switch again

Was your Jesus just a man now?

John 17:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Father and son together in eternity oops simultaneously


The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand” (John 3:35).

For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greaterworks than these will He show Him, so that you will marvel” (John 5:20).

Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love” (John 15:9).“I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know thatYou sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that they also, whomYou have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You havegiven Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world” (John 17:23–24).

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of thecloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” (Matthew17:5).

John 5:17 (ESV) — 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

John 8:49 (ESV) — 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

Matthew 10:32 (ESV) — 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,

Luke 22:29 (ESV) — 29 and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom,

John 15:8 (ESV) — 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.

John 10:29 (ESV) — 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[Johann]

it's only one throne. HOD IT.... 101G see your problem. you think it's an actual physical throne like a chair or something right? ....WRONG, there is no physical throne/chair in heaven. this is a representation of the SOURCE of POWER. my God guys come on. just as sitting on the RIGHT Hand or Arm, it's here an anthropomorphism, guys, guys, guys, there is no actual physical throne like a chair or something in heaven. I hope you-all are not thinking that way.... are U?

101G.

101G.

In the Book of Revelation, there are two distinct thrones mentioned: the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. The throne of God is described in Revelation 4:2, and the throne of the Lamb is mentioned in Revelation 5:6, where Jesus Christ is depicted as the Lamb who was slain but now lives. The two thrones are not confused, and the Lamb is not God, but rather shares authority with God. The throne of God and the Lamb is described as being in the new Jerusalem (Revelation 22:1, 3)

J.

 

[101G]

Sorry you made up the question, but you have not shown that there is verse which states the Father was given power

LOL, LOL, LOL, did 101G say that? Listen, read my lips "the one who sits on the throne was GIVEN "POWER", per Rev 4:11.

if as some believe that it is the Father who sits. well, if so, book chapter and verse as to who GAVE the Father POWER, please.

now if one believes that it is someone else other than the Father sitting on the throne, please post by name who it is.

101G.

 

[101G]

In the Book of Revelation, there are two distinct thrones mentioned: the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. The throne of God is described in Revelation 4:2, and the throne of the Lamb is mentioned in Revelation 5:6, where Jesus Christ is depicted as the Lamb who was slain but now lives. The two thrones are not confused, and the Lamb is not God, but rather shares authority with God. The throne of God and the Lamb is described as being in the new Jerusalem (Revelation 22:1, 3)

J.

ERROR, the Lamb is God, it's the same one person on the throne. now if you want to Go that route, good 101G will be happy to go there also. so who then sits on the throne in chapter 5. your answer please.

101G.

 

[Johann]

ERROR, the Lamb is God, it's the same one person on the throne. now if you want to Go that route, good 101G will be happy to go there also. so who then sits on the throne in chapter 5. your answer please.

101G.

Typo error-the Lamb IS God-God WITH God-

Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,

The phrase "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever" in the Bible, as found in Psalm 45:6, is often interpreted in different ways. The most common understanding is that the speaker, who is addressing the king or the Messiah, is acknowledging that the king's authority comes from God, and that God's authority is eternal. This interpretation is supported by the fact that the same verse is quoted in Hebrews 1:8, where it is applied to Jesus Christ, implying that Jesus shares the divine attributes of God the Father

However, some interpretations suggest that the verse could be understood as "God is your throne forever and ever," implying that God is the king's throne, or the source of his authority. This interpretation is less common and is not supported by the majority of translations and commentaries

In Christian eschatology, the concept of the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb is significant, as it emphasizes the distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ, while also implying that Jesus shares authority with God the Father

. The phrase "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever" is not directly related to Christian eschatology, but it does emphasize the eternal nature of God's authority and the authority of the Messiah or Jesus Christ.

2) "Thy throne, 0 God," (ho thronos sou ho theos) "Thy throne (central throne) 0 God;" historically alluding to David and Solomon's Throne Divinely appointed, yet more specifically to that on which His Son is to preside, 2Sa_7:12-16; Isa_9:6; Luk_1:33.

3) "Is for ever and ever," (eis ton auona tou aionos) "(exists) into the age of the age," into eternity, without cessation, termination, or end, Dan_7:14; Dan_7:27; Rev_11:15.

4) "A sceptre of righteousness is," (kai he hrabdos tes euthutetos) "And the rod (sceptre) of righteousness is (exists as);" The sceptre denotes administrative rule of a royal ruler, a king- - and this king-ruler is an holy and righteous being in all his character and acts, .

5) "The sceptre of thy kingdom," (hrabdos tes basileias autou) "The rod (sceptre) of his kingdom;- As the Sceptre of Judah one, Gen_49:10, as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, and as the Lamb he shall come to rule and reign with his people over his and their joint heritage. And even upon the horses' bells or bridle shall be written "holiness to the Lord;" Isa_9:7; Zec_14:20-21.

J.

 

[DavidTree]

Matthew 3:16-17: "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice from heaven said, 'This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased'" (ESV).

Matthew 28:19: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (ESV).

2 Corinthians 13:14: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (ESV).

Isaiah 48:16: "Draw near to me, hear this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it came to be, I have been there." And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit (ESV).

1 Corinthians 12:4-6: "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone" (ESV).

Ephesians 1:13-14: "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit" (ESV).

Hebrews 1:1-4: "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world" (ESV).

These verses, among others, are used to support the doctrine of the Trinity, which teaches that God exists as three distinct persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—in one divine being

J.

Once God opens our eyes, it can be clearly seen all throughout scripture - with SHOUTS of JOY and PRAISE

 

[synergy]

@synergy, and @TomL,
when are U 2 going to post the book chapter and verse as to who gave the Father POWER? I'm sure this is at you-all fingertips.

101G.

There are many verses that declare that Christ is the Eternal Divine Son of God and that the Holy Spirit eternally proceedes from the Father. That makes God the Father the First Spiritual Source/Cause/Head of the Trinity. In other words, God the Father is the Mon-Arche of the Trinity. Ultimate power is sourced in the Father. We get the English word "Monarch" from the Greek word Mon-Arche but its usage in the English language fails miserably to transfer forward the full Spiritual meaning of the Greek word. The English word only talks about single rule which is a far cry from the more expansive meaning that the Greek word contains.

Monists, Unitarians, and Muslims wrongly interpret the verses that emphasize the Mon-Arche of the Father and fall head first into Monism or Arianism.

 

[DavidTree]

There are many verses that declare that Christ is the Eternal Divine Son of God and that the Holy Spirit eternally proceedes from the Father. That makes God the Father the First Spiritual Source/Cause/Head of the Trinity. In other words, God the Father is the Mon-Arche of the Trinity. Ultimate power is sourced in the Father. We get the English word "Monarch" from the Greek word Mon-Arche but its usage in the English language fails miserably to transfer forward the full Spiritual meaning of the Greek word. The English word only talks about single rule which is a far cry from the more expansive meaning that the Greek word contains.

Monists, Unitarians, and Muslims wrongly interpret the verses that emphasize the Mon-Arche of the Father and fall head first into Monism or Arianism.

And is one of the main reasons the Jews have rejected their MESSIAH.

 

[101G]

There are many verses that declare that Christ is the Eternal Divine Son of God and that the Holy Spirit eternally proceedes from the Father.

Well now, that's interesting. question for you, how is U using "Son of God" here, physically as a Son, as U and I, or is this term or title is used Spiritually, (as in G5207, huios, meaning metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics, or character). which way? ...................... (smile).

That makes God the Father the First Spiritual Source/Cause/Head of the Trinity.

First ERROR of the Day. do not your trinity states all your three persons are EQUAL, or Co-EQUAL? so how is one person the Head or the First, or the Source of POWER if all are EQUAL.?

In other words, God the Father is the Mon-Arche of the Trinity. Ultimate power is sourced in the Father. We get the English word "Monarch" from the Greek word Mon-Arche but its usage in the English language fails miserably to transfer forward the full Spiritual meaning of the Greek word. The English word only talks about single rule which is a far cry from the more expansive meaning that the Greek word contains.

so one Person is GREATER in power than the other..... that a slap, the Co-Equal theory, in the Face of your other two persons. but since you said this, is the Son now the Mon-Arche of your Trinity? listen, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." now the Son is the .... as you say the Mon-Arche of your Trinity, because he is the Ultimate power, the sourced now of ALL POWER, because he has .... yes, "ALL THE POWER". meaning he's the Father/Head now, (especially in the New Creation). and if you disagree, then this Mon-Arche of the Trinity is a LIE. because if ONE had Ultimate power and now another person, has it, then God Changed. and God said, he changes not. other words LEADERSHIP has changed roles within your trinity.

Monists, Unitarians, and Muslims wrongly interpret the verses that emphasize the Mon-Arche of the Father and fall head first into Monism or Arianism.

well it seem you have a Role change, and you have a power structure that is fluidicstac in nature. and you have Role playing.
so, try again.

now, 101G has a question or 2 for You. "in Revelation chapter 5 one sits on the throne, Correct. if it's the Father, HOW COME THE SON, (WHO NOW HAVE ALL POWER) DO NOT KNOW HIS RETURN DATE, ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS". but the Son has all... all ... all POWER. so how do the Father Know what the Son do not know with all POWER? also how can a second person, (now your use to be Father), KNOW something that the ONE, who is now HEAD/all powerful don't KNOW. please explain.

101G.

 

[TomL]

LOL, LOL, LOL, did 101G say that? Listen, read my lips "the one who sits on the throne was GIVEN "POWER", per Rev 4:11.

if as some believe that it is the Father who sits. well, if so, book chapter and verse as to who GAVE the Father POWER, please.

now if one believes that it is someone else other than the Father sitting on the throne, please post by name who it is.

101G.

How is it you fail to realize that verse is a problem for you

Whether it is Jesus or the father or the Spirit, it is all just one person

so how did your one person receive power?

Deal with these

Where are your modes here

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


where we see three persons simultaneously

Below we have two persons God and the word

John 1:1–2 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.


below have Jesus crying out to the father

Matthew 27:46 (KJV 1900) — 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Was there a mode switch again

Was your Jesus just a man now?

John 17:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Father and son together in eternity oops simultaneously


The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand” (John 3:35).

For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greaterworks than these will He show Him, so that you will marvel” (John 5:20).

Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love” (John 15:9).“I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know thatYou sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that they also, whomYou have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You havegiven Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world” (John 17:23–24).

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of thecloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” (Matthew17:5).

John 5:17 (ESV) — 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

John 8:49 (ESV) — 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

Matthew 10:32 (ESV) — 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,

Luke 22:29 (ESV) — 29 and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom,

John 15:8 (ESV) — 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.

John 10:29 (ESV) — 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.