God's attribute of Justice demands PSA

dizerner

Well-known member
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne. (Ps. 89:14 NKJ)

Does God subvert judgment? Or does the Almighty pervert justice? (Job 8:3 NKJ)

Now if God designates one consequence of sin for one sinner, and a completely different consequence of the exact same sin for a different sinner, he has created an inequity of justice that is often condemned in Scripture:

Diverse weights and diverse measures, They are both alike, an abomination to the LORD. (Prov. 20:10 NKJ)

13 "You shall not have in your bag differing weights, a heavy and a light.
14 "You shall not have in your house differing measures, a large and a small.
15 "You shall have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure, that your days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
16 "For all who do such things, all who behave unrighteously, are an abomination to the LORD your God. (Deut. 25:13-16 NKJ)


Now God is not a hypocrite: if he cares about unequal weights in such small matters as day to day transactions, how much more unequal punishments for far more serious sins against a holy God?

A heavy weight for sinners but a light weight for Christ?
A large weight for sinners but a small weight for Christ?
A second death for sinners but only a first death for Christ?
Wrath for every sinner but absolutely no wrath for Christ?

Denying PSA violates God's fundamental attribute of Justice.

There is a reason even humans in their sense of legality have a saying that "justice is blind" and show equal weights:

5137XBJxTAS._AC_UF8941000_QL80__1_20.jpg
 
We confess that God is one: One Father, One Son, One Spirit. He is not three beings but one being in three persons.

If one person "The Father" expends his wrath on "The Son", then it implies that the Trinity works separately; that is, it implies that two beings with two wills exist, one willing to expend his wrath and the other to receive it. It also implies that God has two parts (Father and Son).

So, it implies that God is two, is made up of parts, of separate wills.

But we confess that God is one. As one God, he has one will because he is ONE being. He is not made up of parts.
 
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne. (Ps. 89:14 NKJ)

Does God subvert judgment? Or does the Almighty pervert justice? (Job 8:3 NKJ)


Now if God designates one consequence of sin for one sinner, and a completely different consequence of the exact same sin for a different sinner, he has created an inequity of justice that is often condemned in Scripture:

Diverse weights and diverse measures, They are both alike, an abomination to the LORD. (Prov. 20:10 NKJ)

13 "You shall not have in your bag differing weights, a heavy and a light.
14 "You shall not have in your house differing measures, a large and a small.
15 "You shall have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure, that your days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
16 "For all who do such things, all who behave unrighteously, are an abomination to the LORD your God. (Deut. 25:13-16 NKJ)

Now God is not a hypocrite: if he cares about unequal weights in such small matters as day to day transactions, how much more unequal punishments for far more serious sins against a holy God?

A heavy weight for sinners but a light weight for Christ?
A large weight for sinners but a small weight for Christ?
A second death for sinners but only a first death for Christ?
Wrath for every sinner but absolutely no wrath for Christ?

Denying PSA violates God's fundamental attribute of Justice.

There is a reason even humans in their sense of legality have a saying that "justice is blind" and show equal weights:

View attachment 227
What is the judgement for sin? Is it not death?

What did our sinless Lord do for us that He did not have to do? He gave up His life unto death for our sins, not that anyone took it, and He had the power to die and resurrect.

The Father did not kill the Son. The Son willingly died.
The Father did judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.
The Father was with Him when all others left Him.
The Father was in Christ on the cross when He was reconciling the world.

The guilt of our sin has been removed by the “Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world”.

No wrath from God the Father upon God the Son. Our God Jesus Christ died for our sins to gain us freedom from the guilt of our sin. Ransom paid. A sinless life for the sinners life.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

God Bless
 
What is the judgement for sin? Is it not death?

What did our sinless Lord do for us that He did not have to do? He gave up His life unto death for our sins, not that anyone took it, and He had the power to die and resurrect.

The Father did not kill the Son. The Son willingly died.
The Father did judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.
The Father was with Him when all others left Him.
The Father was in Christ on the cross when He was reconciling the world.

The guilt of our sin has been removed by the “Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world”.

No wrath from God the Father upon God the Son. Our God Jesus Christ died for our sins to gain us freedom from the guilt of our sin. Ransom paid. A sinless life for the sinners life.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

God Bless
Amen
 
What is the judgement for sin? Is it not death?

What did our sinless Lord do for us that He did not have to do? He gave up His life unto death for our sins, not that anyone took it, and He had the power to die and resurrect.

The Father did not kill the Son. The Son willingly died.
The Father did judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.
The Father was with Him when all others left Him.
The Father was in Christ on the cross when He was reconciling the world.

The guilt of our sin has been removed by the “Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world”.

No wrath from God the Father upon God the Son. Our God Jesus Christ died for our sins to gain us freedom from the guilt of our sin. Ransom paid. A sinless life for the sinners life.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

God Bless
A typo was made missing one word in my response. This is to clarify the statement.

Statement with typo: The Father did judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.

Corrected: The Father did not judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.

God Bless
 
A typo was made missing one word in my response. This is to clarify the statement.

Statement with typo: The Father did judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.

Corrected: The Father did not judge His Son of sin. The Father judged sin in His Son’s death.

God Bless
I can also type an essay on Kippur with no scripture references @Joe -not being facetious, since there are currently 7 theories on Atonement.
Can you post again, this time with Scripture references?
How about Is 53?
Sounds like penal atonement to me.
Johann.
 
We confess that God is one: One Father, One Son, One Spirit. He is not three beings but one being in three persons.

If one person "The Father" expends his wrath on "The Son", then it implies that the Trinity works separately; that is, it implies that two beings with two wills exist, one willing to expend his wrath and the other to receive it. It also implies that God has two parts (Father and Son).

So, it implies that God is two, is made up of parts, of separate wills.

But we confess that God is one. As one God, he has one will because he is ONE being. He is not made up of parts.
The Bible doe snot teach that Elohim/plural is one/singular Being.

Genesis - "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness"

That should be a Good Start for you.

Peace
 
The Bible doe snot teach that Elohim/plural is one/singular Being.

Genesis - "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness"

That should be a Good Start for you.

Peace
DT, may we ask you a starter question also? John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." him here is one person ..... Correct, now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

IS THIS THE SAME "ONE" PERSON WHO "MADE ALL THINGS?" yes or no.

101G.
 
DT, may we ask you a starter question also? John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." him here is one person ..... Correct, now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

IS THIS THE SAME "ONE" PERSON WHO "MADE ALL THINGS?" yes or no.

101G.
Let this Mind be in you

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Elohim FATHER Elohim SON Elohim HOLY SPIRIT are 3 who are Echad/One
 
Let this Mind be in you

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Elohim FATHER Elohim SON Elohim HOLY SPIRIT are 3 who are Echad/One
and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. LIKE IS NOT IS, for remember we're the ... "IMAGE" not him..... (smile).
Elohim FATHER Elohim SON Elohim HOLY SPIRIT are 3 who are Echad/One
ERROR, you have it backwards, Elohim HOLY SPIRIT who hold both the titles "Father" and "Son" in in the ECHAD of ONE, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. ....... (smile)..... :giggle:

101G.
 
and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. LIKE IS NOT IS, for remember we're the ... "IMAGE" not him..... (smile).

ERROR, you have it backwards, Elohim HOLY SPIRIT who hold both the titles "Father" and "Son" in in the ECHAD of ONE, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. ....... (smile)..... :giggle:

101G.
Maybe this will help you SEE 3 = Matthew 3

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is (FATHER)My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
 
Maybe this will help you SEE 3 = Matthew 3

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is (FATHER)My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
The One is not the Other. :)
 
Maybe this will help you SEE 3 = Matthew 3

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is (FATHER)My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
ERROR, the scriptures states, "A Voice came from heaven". it did not say it was the Father's voice..... you assumed that by what was said. when one assumes, that put the spiritual noose around your neck.

now 101G will give you some more rope. for we have proof that the voice is just that a voice from heaven, and it may not be necessary the Fathers Voice. we have scripture to back this up. when thew bible say, "A VOICE FROM HEAVEN" and do not specify who voice it is.... don't add or take away from the word of God. when the Bible say a Voice, leave it like it is, because we have bible to prove that more than just the Father Speaks from Heaven. example, when Abraham was about to sacrifice his son..... "His only begotten son", a voice from heaven stopped him, and it was not God who spoke from heaven. LISTEN and LEARN, Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I." Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." now afterward.... Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time," Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:" Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

STOP, hold it, who was speaking from Heaven.... God or the angel? answer the ANGEL was speaking for God.
see when you added, "his is (FATHER)My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” you assumed IGNORANGLY, that the voice was the Father's. well if scripture do not say so, why add, or assume? the scriptures are clear... do not add or take away from the word of God. and you just did that by "assumption".

so you made a MISTAKE. you need to repent.

101G.
 
ERROR, the scriptures states, "A Voice came from heaven". it did not say it was the Father's voice..... you assumed that by what was said. when one assumes, that put the spiritual noose around your neck.

now 101G will give you some more rope. for we have proof that the voice is just that a voice from heaven, and it may not be necessary the Fathers Voice. we have scripture to back this up. when thew bible say, "A VOICE FROM HEAVEN" and do not specify who voice it is.... don't add or take away from the word of God. when the Bible say a Voice, leave it like it is, because we have bible to prove that more than just the Father Speaks from Heaven. example, when Abraham was about to sacrifice his son..... "His only begotten son", a voice from heaven stopped him, and it was not God who spoke from heaven. LISTEN and LEARN, Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I." Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." now afterward.... Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time," Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:" Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

STOP, hold it, who was speaking from Heaven.... God or the angel? answer the ANGEL was speaking for God.
see when you added, "his is (FATHER)My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” you assumed IGNORANGLY, that the voice was the Father's. well if scripture do not say so, why add, or assume? the scriptures are clear... do not add or take away from the word of God. and you just did that by "assumption".

so you made a MISTAKE. you need to repent.

101G.
@101G says: ERROR, the scriptures states, "A Voice came from heaven". it did not say it was the Father's voice..... you assumed that by what was said. when one assumes, that put the spiritual noose around your neck."

The Voice from Heaven said: "This is MY Beloved Son"

First Person is speaking = only the FATHER can say "MY...Son"
 
@101G says: ERROR, the scriptures states, "A Voice came from heaven". it did not say it was the Father's voice..... you assumed that by what was said. when one assumes, that put the spiritual noose around your neck."

The Voice from Heaven said: "This is MY Beloved Son"

First Person is speaking = only the FATHER can say "MY...Son"
Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time," Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:"

who is FIRST PERSON here... "Myself", and "I". but who was speaking those words? answer the angel ... for, for, for, the LORD. READ that verse again.

101G.
 
Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time," Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:"

who is FIRST PERSON here... "Myself", and "I". but who was speaking those words? answer the angel ... for, for, for, the LORD. READ that verse again.

101G.
It is accepted that in this scripture passage, the "angel(messenger) of the Lord is Jesus.
 
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