Sorry I do not believe God is made more perfect and you did not address scriptural rebuttal
Why? Is scripture or philosophy the standard
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Why? Is scripture or philosophy the standard
You are running from scripture
It's scripture, Deal with it and stop running from your responsibility
Ex. 16:4; "And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not" Deut. 8:2; "the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart" Deut. 13:3; "For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth" with the "eyes" figure of speech referring to the reality that God looks and sees so that He can "show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him" 2 Chr. 16:9; "The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God" Ps. 14:2; "I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings" Jer. 17:10; "I also will no longer drive out before [Israel] any of the nations which Joshua left when he died, so that through them I may test Israel, whether they will keep the ways of the Lord, to walk in them as their fathers kept them, or not" Jud. 2:21-22
Prayer Can Change What Would Otherwise Be the Future.
Jehoahaz pleaded and God listened and helped deliver Israel 2 Kings 13:4; God told Hezekiah to prepare for "you shall die and not live" but the King pleaded with God who then said, "I have heard your prayer and surely I will heal you... And I will add to your days fifteen years" 2 Kings 20:1-6; a persistent widow pleaded with an unjust judge and Jesus interpreted His own parable, Shall not God answer the prayers of those who continue to ask God Luke 18:1-7; the friend who comes asking for bread at midnight is resisted until his persists and Jesus interprets His parables saying So ask God "and it will be given to you" Luke 11:5-9;
and I did not claim as you falsely post god knows but does not know
Not only do you fail to address scripture but you distort
atpollard
Well-known member
Should we SHARPIE out all the verses that imply the contrary, like Ephesians 1:11
My question for you is this ...
If God changes, was God more perfect BEFORE the change or AFTER the change?
Perfect cannot change without becoming less than perfect, so has God become MORE or LESS perfect with each change?
It seems important to know if God is getting BETTER or WORSE!
As for me and my house ...
- “God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and he will not fulfill it” (Numbers 23:19)?
- “They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, but you are the same, and your years have no end” (Psalm 102:26-27).
- “when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us” (Hebrews 6:17-18)
- “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8)
- “the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places” (Eph. 3:9-10)
- “was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God” (1 Peter 1:20)
- “in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began” (Titus 1:2)
- “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change” (James 1:17)
... IMMUTABILITY!
It is funny they will not address scripture
Neither He remains unchanged in his essential attributes
civic
Well-known member
yep
Sorry I do not believe God is made more perfect and you did not address scriptural rebuttal
Ex. 16:4; "And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not" Deut. 8:2; "the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart" Deut. 13:3; "For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth" with the "eyes" figure of speech referring to the reality that God looks and sees so that He can "show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him" 2 Chr. 16:9; "The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God" Ps. 14:2; "I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings" Jer. 17:10; "I also will no longer drive out before [Israel] any of the nations which Joshua left when he died, so that through them I may test Israel, whether they will keep the ways of the Lord, to walk in them as their fathers kept them, or not" Jud. 2:21-22
Prayer Can Change What Would Otherwise Be the Future.
Jehoahaz pleaded and God listened and helped deliver Israel 2 Kings 13:4; God told Hezekiah to prepare for "you shall die and not live" but the King pleaded with God who then said, "I have heard your prayer and surely I will heal you... And I will add to your days fifteen years" 2 Kings 20:1-6; a persistent widow pleaded with an unjust judge and Jesus interpreted His own parable, Shall not God answer the prayers of those who continue to ask God Luke 18:1-7; the friend who comes asking for bread at midnight is resisted until his persists and Jesus interprets His parables saying So ask God "and it will be given to you" Luke 11:5-9;
So you do not believe scripture?
1 Kings 21:29
“Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself before me, I will not bring the disaster in his days; but in his son's days I will bring the disaster upon his house.”
2 Chron 12:12And when he humbled himself, the wrath of the Lord turned from him, that he would not destroy him altogether: and also in Judah things went well.
2 Chron 32:26Notwithstanding Hezekiah humbled himself for the pride of his heart, both he and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the wrath of the Lord came not upon them in the days of Hezekiah.
2 Chron 33:12And when he was in affliction, he besought the Lord his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers,
2 Chron 33:23And humbled not himself before the Lord, as Manasseh his father had humbled himself; but Amon trespassed more and more.
Looking at and believing scripture it is plain God does not change in some ways, but he changes in other ways
Compatibilism is determinism i.e. fatalism masquerading otherwise butExcept I am a compatibilist.
You however are a Open Theist. "The future is open". LOL Your God learns. That's Open Theism.
Let's try this, if not a Open Theist then what are you? Other than wrong.
Compatibilism is a form of determinism and it should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard determinism. It simply means that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. Our choices are not coerced ...i.e. we do not choose against what we want or desire, yet we never make choices contrary to God's sovereign decree. What God determines will always come to pass (Eph 1:11)...
In light of Scripture, (according to compatibilism), human choices are exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism.
www.monergism.com/compatibilistic-determinism
You are a fatalist
civic
Well-known member
Apparently not but instead denies what God has said about Himself.
he believes in mutability
yep spot on
All these were declared Righteous, just, pleased God, worshiped God
Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12
Hebrews 11:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
1 John 3:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Lot - 2 Peter 2:7, 8
2 Peter 2:7–8 (KJV 1900) — 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1
Genesis 7:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Job - Job 1:1; 34:5
Abraham - Galatians 3:6
Galatians 3:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Lydia - Acts 16:14
Cornelius - Acts 10:22
Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6
Luke 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6
Luke 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50
Simeon Luke 2:25
Enoch Hebrews 11:5
He likes to pretend his position is not fatalistic.Apparently not but instead denies what God has said about Himself.
he believes in mutability
yep spot on
civic
Well-known member
Yet another Calvinist contradiction in their theologyAll these were declared Righteous, just, pleased God, worshiped God
Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12
Hebrews 11:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
1 John 3:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Lot - 2 Peter 2:7, 8
2 Peter 2:7–8 (KJV 1900) — 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1
Genesis 7:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Job - Job 1:1; 34:5
Abraham - Galatians 3:6
Galatians 3:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Lydia - Acts 16:14
Cornelius - Acts 10:22
Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6
Luke 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6
Luke 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50
Simeon Luke 2:25
Enoch Hebrews 11:5
Compatibilism contains determinism but also free will. It's clearly the Biblical position. The very Bible itself is a great example of compatibilist there Open Theist.
Yes I do. LOL Man instinctively hates God.
atpollard
Well-known member
If you CHANGE perfect, it is no longer "perfect".
If the only response you are looking for in a conversation is denial, then ...
You have misunderstood those scriptures to prove that God changes his plan.
(Now I have addressed your "rebuttal" as you addressed my "argument" ... with a simple statement of denial.)
atpollard
Well-known member
They contradict Numbers 23:19, so they cannot mean what you think they mean.
[The criticism cuts both ways ... you answer with "scripture pong" rather than any true conversation.]
atpollard
Well-known member
So SHARPIE to ROMANS 3 ... Got it.All these were declared Righteous, just, pleased God, worshiped God
Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12
Hebrews 11:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
1 John 3:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Lot - 2 Peter 2:7, 8
2 Peter 2:7–8 (KJV 1900) — 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1
Genesis 7:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Job - Job 1:1; 34:5
Abraham - Galatians 3:6
Galatians 3:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Lydia - Acts 16:14
Cornelius - Acts 10:22
Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6
Luke 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6
Luke 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50
Simeon Luke 2:25
Enoch Hebrews 11:5
atpollard
Well-known member
@TomLSo SHARPIE to ROMANS 3 ... Got it.
What about the others?
- John 3:18-20 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed."
- Ephesians 2:1-3 And you [He made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
- 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
- James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
... SHARPIE to them, too?
Heck, if men are basically GOOD, then what do we even NEED a "Christ" for? We can just OBEY THE LAW and BE RIGHTEOUS!
