Nope. There was no time when. Nothing existed but God.
Why is it you ignore certain facts?
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
- Thread starter civic
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Why is it you ignore certain facts?
civic
Well-known member
You still cannot prove your assumptions. I on the other hand have proven there is time in heaven where God dwells and there was time before there was a sun, moon and stars. Time will also exist in eternity in the new heavens and earth where God dwells in the New Jerusalem
Before creation there was nothing. No time. Nothing. FACT
civic
Well-known member
Before the sun, moon and stars were created there was time which you deny . Genesis 1 exposes your false ideas about time and so does eternity in heaven where time exists.
Keep dodging
Next
Wrong. I said that's how we measure time. PAY ATTENTION
civic
Well-known member
Changing like the wind with its direction , the ever moving and changing of the goal posts.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
While I think it has, the same might be said of your argument; that God is not timeless is even less established.
But this doesn’t negate the fact that an inference is not an assumption.
I haven’t denied this, but affirmed it as my proof that this is the beginning of time.
Is God subject to anything? You are implying that God is subject to time, and thus God cannot do anything outside the constraints of time. He is thus not omnipotent, for time does not bend to his power. God is becoming less and less almighty.
That is a static statement; God always is, always exists!
Omniscience is a static state, because there is no information that has not been known.
Yep, and that event was the beginning of time.
No planning necessary for an omniscient God.
A weak argument has to keep adding hyperbolic rhetoric to create a strawman version of their opponents beliefs. Now your throwing in the accusation of God being simplistic!
No sir, I think God is anything but simplistic! You keep making God more like man by subjecting him to time. That is making God simplistic!
Doug
Rockson
Well-known member
So simple to answer. For the reason that everything you do has duration from A, B and then C.
Rockson
Well-known member
It wouldn't be important how you tell time. If there's sequence to what you're experiencing you can always create some devise which measures things off. It wouldn't even have to be called hours and seconds that make up a 24 hour period but rather some other system. The main thing is sequencing is taking place which takes duration.
Not if you go by the bible or the common belief all change involves time
If your inference results from what it itself has not been established it is an assumption
The point the change itself involved duration unless you want to argue the creation is as eternal as God
Also there was the decree before creation more sequence more change thus more time
God is subject only to himself that would include his attributes and properties. If time is a natural property of God then it is no different then saying God is subject to himself
God always exists whether it is throughout all time or timeless.
Timelessness is however established by nothing in the bible but in the bible god clearly has sequence in his actions and relations
Before creation before the decree to create the future was not settled
God was free to create or not create
unless you are going to say God was not free, you are left with an unsettled future.
Do you deny God was free?
Nope duration between non creation and creation existed
also there was the decree to create
A timeless God cannot experience duration between events
All must be simultaneous and unending
The bible says otherwise
Jeremiah 18:11 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.
Jeremiah 49:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Therefore hear the counsel of the LORD, That he hath taken against Edom; And his purposes, that he hath purposed against the inhabitants of Teman: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: Surely he shall make their habitations desolate with them.
Jeremiah 50:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, That he hath taken against Babylon; And his purposes, that he hath purposed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: Surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them.
Really do you not know that is an established attribute of God according to classic theism
Simplicity
Berkhof, Louis
When we speak of the simplicity of God, we use the term to describe the state or quality of being simple, the condition of being free from division into parts, and therefore from compositeness. It means that God is not composite and is not susceptible of division in any sense of the word.
Berkhof, Louis. Systematic Theology (p. 50). . Kindle Edition.
Bavinck, Herman
It is this conviction that lies behind the teaching of Christian theology that God is “simple,” that is, free from composition. God is identical with each of his attributes; he is what he possesses. In God “to be” is the same as to be wise, to be good, or to be powerful. All God’s attributes are identical with his essence. In all his attributes he is pure being, absolute reality. We cannot refrain from speaking of God’s being, and in the description of God’s essence Christian theology places his aseity in the foreground as the primary attribute traditionally associated with the name YHWH. God is the One who exists of and through himself, the perfect being who is absolute in wisdom and goodness, righteousness and holiness, power and blessedness.
Bavinck, Herman. Reformed Dogmatics : Volume 2: God and Creation (p. 70). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Dolezal, James
It should be readily confessed that the exact function of free will in God who is himself pure act is beyond the scope of human knowledge. Just as we cannot comprehend God as ipsum esse subsistens, we cannot comprehend the identity between God as eternal, immutable, pure act and his will for the world as free and uncoerced. Though we discover strong reasons for confessing both simplicity and freedom in God, we cannot form an isomorphically adequate notion of how this is the case. In fact, this confession of ignorance is precisely what one finds in the Thomist and Reformed traditions.
Dolezal, James E.. God without Parts: Divine Simplicity and the Metaphysics of God’s Absoluteness (pp. 210-211). Pickwick Publications, An Imprint of Wipf and Stock Publishers. Kindle Edition.
Frame, John
To say that God is simple, in scholastic philosophy, is to say that there is no compositism in his being. Specifically, there is no composition of physical parts, form and matter, actual and potential, genus and differentia, substance and accident, God and his essence, essence and attributes, attributes and one another, or essence and esse. God is not, then, in any sense made up of parts.
John Frame, The Doctrine of God
God’s simplicity is his indivisibility, his perfect lack of composition. This means that each of and all his perfections are his essence.
MacArthur, John; Mayhue, Richard. Biblical Doctrine (Kindle Locations 4378-4379). Crossway. Kindle Edition
Well then you deny classic theism.
And it was classic theism not me that argues for the simplicity of God
You show God had experienced a before moment when nothing but himself existed
and an after when he created
A timeless God has no before or after
Further as God was free to create or not create then before he decreed to create the future was open
Sorry you have duration between God's being and the act of creation
Thus god had a past when he was not a creator and an after his not creating being
Things which cannot be true of a timeless God
Are you claiming God was not free to create or not create
Hello
If he was free to take either option the future was open
Think Mr gnostic Calvinist heretic
You asked how we keep time. I told you because apparently you skipped first grade.
Glad I could help
I agree except when nothing exists prior to creation.
So He pondered which road to take yet knew what road He would take? And I meed to think? LOL
Nope. Nothing existed. Not possible.
I think He is catching on.
Open future is not logically possible if God is omniscient.
What was that you said? Oh ya, THINK
civic
Well-known member
lol now God is nothing, what's next
Grow up
