civic
Well-known member
Got Scripture for your premise ?
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
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Is God subject to the rules of time?
civic
Well-known member
Got Scripture about time ?
Is Gos subject to the rules of time? I asked first.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I view eternal as existing before creation. If God spoke the wills into existence emetic happened at a point in time, did God plan creation prior to speaking it into existence ? There must of been a sequence of thought and discussion between the Godhead prior to creation. The mind is not static but dynamic correct ? I know this gets into a philosophical discussion but it’s a fun discussion to have nevertheless.
I think that eternity is more a word of circumstance than of time, and I think we are very close in perspective, definitely in the same general direction.
I like what you say about eternity implying a lack of change, and I would argue the same thing, but I think that lack of change can be in a limited to a certain degree.
God is eternal because he cannot change in character of who and what he is. In eternity future, we will be either forever damned or forever blessed- a condition of being that will never change.
In heaven, there will be praising and singing (as there is now) and in hell, there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth”. But yet the circumstances of that reality will never change; they are eternal!
If eternal means lack of change in any way, then God cannot be eternal in nature and do anything at all, like think or communicate.
But then again, the Godhead is one, so they already know everything. Function is not always change.
Perhaps being eternal and eternity is not really a time element but description of primary condition of nature.
It is a fun discussion!
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Thinking, reasoning involves sequence not to mention creation
WCF
GOD from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:
Westminster Assembly, The Westminster Confession of Faith: Edinburgh Edition (Philadelphia: William S. Young, 1851), 26.
If there is an order there is sequence and sequence involves time
And how do you learn and propagate its distinctives. Who sees to it that it is correctly understood or do you just avoid this?
civic
Well-known member
Yep proves sequence , planning , thinking , time etc …. Just another contradiction in Calvinism.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yes it does. Which is why I've said for a very long time that "Eternal" is not the absence of time but never ending time. A true paradox. Not this nonsense that "classic" theology presents with all it's less than adequate explanations. Atheists' laugh at "classic" theology such as this. They have some very good reasons to laugh. The subject is well worthy the effort to know it.
Why are angels "ministering spirits"? Why are we "servants of God". God doesn't need us but we certainly need Him and we need one another.
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
I think first a person needs to accept and believe that God's Word is true, "Every Word" as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. And it is these "Holy Scriptures" inspired by God that men can trust "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works". Men who are guided by these Words are called "Learned of the Father". There are "MANY" men who call Jesus Lord, Lord and preach in HIS Name, but not so "many" who are learned of the Father.
Matt. 7: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Is. 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But in this world we have Wesley, Calvin, Arminius, Huss, Smith, Russell, White and the Pope and many others, and a monster religious system who divides itself according to whose religious philosophy they adopt.
Each one transgressing God's commandments by their own traditions, each one creating their own religion, their own Judgments, their own high days and sabbaths, their own imager of God in the likeness of men, and each one pointing out the flaws in the other religious business, like you guys to the Calvinists, but never considering the beam stuck in their own eye.
It seems there is a "repentance" or an "Exodus" in every example of faithful man in the entire Bible. Not an exodus from one religious sect to another, like the Pharisees to the Sadducee or a Catholic to a Protestant. But an Exodus out of the religions of this world, out of the old man "Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".
It is this Exodus that I advocate for.
As Paul teaches.
2 Cor. 6: 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
civic
Well-known member
Got scripture for the creation of time ?
Didn’t think so just an argument from silence just like tulip
Next
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Got scripture for the creation of time ?
Didn’t think so just an argument from silence just like tulip
Next
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen
There are ages but there is no end. Eternal life. Our life is in HIM.
civic
Well-known member
Amen from age to age He remains the same
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Lewis posited the “Eternal Now” of Gods relationship to time in his natural state. Time is a measurement between two points of reality; a point between when non X becomes X. Change is always happening in this world; the earth is spinning so the sun is continually moving across the sky. Time is the measurement between the point where the sun is at one point in the sky and when it reaches another point, and there are innumerable other examples of changes.
There is no change in an eternal being. “He is the same yesterday, today, and forever” A Triune omniscient being doesn’t need to speak; they simply know.
You did not state a paradox, you simply stated a negation. “Eternal" is not the absence of time but never ending time.”
Doug
civic
Well-known member
How would you describe the plan of salvation taking place within the Trinity prior to creation ?
