God is Plural

[Wrangler]

why do you misrepresent me?

It's a sad but all too common dynamic.

Religious people cannot accept easily different religious beliefs. They feel compelled to create a Strawman and attack another's view.

IMO, this is reveals insecurity they feel about their own beliefs. Given that your beliefs had a smidgeon of justification that is contrary to theirs becomes intolerable.

A great example is both Scripture and the man Jesus is referred to as the word of God. Not one way but both. I've been thinking about creating a poll to see how many here agree.

 

[sethproton]

Was the Son equal with the Father in His deity while walking this earth ?

If not explain why.

i gave you the box ANALOGY ANALOGY ANALOGY and you pretended not to understand it. I think I am done with your silliness on this topic. God bless you Civic

 

[civic]

I have explained this to you 25 different ways over the years, Apprantlt you are never going to understnad from what I tell you

It’s always so vague that’s why , you say things that are unclear. I’m asking clarifying questions to find out what you really mean.

 

[civic]

It's a sad but all too common dynamic.

Religious people cannot accept easily different religious beliefs. They feel compelled to create a Strawman and attack another's view.

IMO, this is reveals insecurity they feel about their own beliefs. Given that your beliefs had a smidgeon of justification that is contrary to theirs becomes intolerable.

A great example is both Scripture and the man Jesus is referred to as the word of God. Not one way but both. I've been thinking about creating a poll to see how many here agree.

If what you say about me it true then as a trinitarian I would not have ever invited you here lol. What you claim might be true with some Trinitarians but it’s not with me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well, I'm not trying to be uncharitable, but that term should definitely be ditched.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Heb. 13:8 NKJ)

Being exacting.... that is not what Hebrews 13:8 means. It is statement relative to His Immutability. God has taken various forms throughout His Eternal existence. Not saying that the Incarnation isn't more complicated and interwoven in Eternal things. There is no doubt that "transient identity" is a references to His state of suffering . He suffered once for ALL. Not Eternally.

Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

 

[civic]

i gave you the box ANALOGY ANALOGY ANALOGY and you pretended not to understand it. I think I am done with your silliness on this topic. God bless you Civic

Except it’s vague what exactly was emptied ? I asked you to explain how himself was emptied and you didn’t answer the question

 

[sethproton]

It’s always so vague that’s why , you say things that are unclear. I’m asking clarifying questions to find out what you really mean.

forget the pretense. Yu are not trying to understand anything, That is not honest You understand but you don't like it and don't know how to may a real argument so you have been games for years

 

[civic]

forget the pretense. Yu are not trying to understand anything, That is not honest You understand but you don't like it and don't know how to may a real argument so you have been games for years

Let’s keep this about doctrine and teaching and not about you or me personally. I’m trying to understand what you mean by an empty box and how that related to God being empty. Empty of what ?

If there is no self what is left ?

 

[101G]

What does "took on" mean here.

And how is it "laying" anything down if all things are retained?

A. Took on ..... Hebrews 2:16 "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."
now if you don't understand, just go back up a verse or two to Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

do you know the difference between "Took Part" vs "Partaker"..... (smile).... it so obvious.

now your B question. John 10:15 "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."

John 10:17 "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." John 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

I HAVE POWER.......... that's how......."all things are retained?"...... (smile), Oh dear......

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's a sad but all too common dynamic.

Religious people cannot accept easily different religious beliefs. They feel compelled to create a Strawman and attack another's view.

IMO, this is reveals insecurity they feel about their own beliefs. Given that your beliefs had a smidgeon of justification that is contrary to theirs becomes intolerable.

A great example is both Scripture and the man Jesus is referred to as the word of God. Not one way but both. I've been thinking about creating a poll to see how many here agree.

It is clear to me that your issue isn't with me nor anyone else. It is with God. Believe was you will. That doesn't mean anyone should avoid challenging you.

I do believe one of your favorite words is "strawman"..... I personally hate the word because it is nothing more than an excuse to ignore someone.

 

[Wrangler]

If what you say about me it true then as a trinitarian I would not have ever invited you here lol. What you claim might be true with some Trinitarians but it’s not with me.

What I said was not meant to apply to trinitarians but many religious people, in general.

In yesterday’s sermon, the 5th of a 5 part series on Doubt was completed. The pastor said the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty. Jesus could work with people who doubted, which included his disciples.

Who Jesus could not work with are people with certainty, like the Pharisees.

So, while it is good to have beliefs, have certainty about them shows a lack of humility. For instance, on the trinity, I can admit certain verses appear to support the trinity. Sadly, most trinitarians cannot admit a single verse could reasonably be taken to cast doubt.

For instance, in all my posts, no one replied with ‘I can see how a reasonable person could take God’s Word to discredit the trinity.’ Telling.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What I said was not meant to apply to trinitarians but many religious people, in general.

In yesterday’s sermon, the 5th of a 5 part series on Doubt was completed. The pastor said the opposite of faith is not doubt by certainty. Jesus could work with people who doubted, which included his disciples.

Who Jesus could not work with are people with certainty, like the Pharisees.

So, while it is good to have beliefs, have certainty about them shows a lack of humility. For instance, on the trinity, I can admit certain verses appear to support the trinity. Sadly, most trinitarians cannot admit a single verse could reasonably be taken to cast doubt.

For instance, in all my posts, no one replied with ‘I can see how a reasonable person could take God’s Word to discredit the trinity.’ Telling.

That is about the silliest thing I've ever read.

Christ is the object of faith. It can not be anything else. Everything else has the fingerprints of men upon it. There is plenty of room for uncertainty with such.

 

[Wrangler]

Christ is the object of faith.

Not according to Christ. He taught us to pray to God, who we relate to as father. He did not teach us to pray to him or to a trinity.

When you admit Christ is the object of faith, you must realize how this claim ALSO destroys the trinity.

To claim some variation of ‘Christ is God’ is to deny the trinity is God. Contradiction upon Contradiction. But it reveals the passion of the trinity IDOL is the man-is-god thesis.

 

[civic]

Not according to Christ. He taught us to pray to God, who we relate to as father. He did not teach us to pray to him or to a trinity.

When you admit Christ is the object of faith, you must realize how this claim ALSO destroys the trinity.

To claim some variation of ‘Christ is God’ is to deny the trinity is God. Contradiction upon Contradiction. But it reveals the passion of the trinity IDOL is the man-is-god thesis.

He said : you refuse to come to Me that you may have life. Eternal life is found in the Son.

 

[101G]

He said : you refuse to come to Me that you may have life. Eternal life is found in the Son.

correct, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." John 14:8 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

I am in the Father, and the Father in me same one person.

101G

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not according to Christ. He taught us to pray to God, who we relate to as father. He did not teach us to pray to him or to a trinity.

When you admit Christ is the object of faith, you must realize how this claim ALSO destroys the trinity.

To claim some variation of ‘Christ is God’ is to deny the trinity is God. Contradiction upon Contradiction. But it reveals the passion of the trinity IDOL is the man-is-god thesis.

No man at any time has seen the Father, the Son has declared the Father. In no way does this destroy the Trinity.

As I have repeatedly told you before, you must not know the pleasure of a son. If you did, you would understand the Unity that Father and Son share.

It is one of the reasons God gifted Adam with offspring. So humanity could understand the bond experienced in the Holy Trinity. You have no natural affection or you would know this. You can't separate a Father and His Son that are perfectly joined in harmony.

Do you hate your son? Do you consider him inferior? Do question your son's lineage?

 

[civic]

Not according to Christ. He taught us to pray to God, who we relate to as father. He did not teach us to pray to him or to a trinity.

When you admit Christ is the object of faith, you must realize how this claim ALSO destroys the trinity.

To claim some variation of ‘Christ is God’ is to deny the trinity is God. Contradiction upon Contradiction. But it reveals the passion of the trinity IDOL is the man-is-god thesis.

He said : you refuse to come to Me that you may have life. Jesus is eternal life, He is life. We see this over and over again in the Apostle Johns writings. In Him was LIFE and that LIFE was the light of man. Life of the world, the Bread of LIFE,My words are spirit and they are LIFE, I AM the way,the truth and the LIFE,The LIFE was manifested and we proclaim to you the ETERNAL Life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us- The Prologue of 1st John. So we see that when John uses the phrase True God and Eternal Life together in 1 John 5:20 that He is referring to Christ as the closest antecedent making Him the True God and Eternal Life.

Also we see that when we search the GNT that Eternal Life is never used of the Father without the Son but we see that Eternal Life is used over and over with Jesus where the Father is never mentioned. This makes a case for the deity of Christ and dismantles Unitarianism in one fell swoop.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

He said : you refuse to come to Me that you may have life. Eternal life is found in the Son.

Agreed. Doesn’t make him God.

Jesus is the the GATE by which we go through TO God, He’s like the sports coat one must wear to be seated at a fancy restaurant, not the restaurant itself. Many wear the sports coat at the one restaurant.

 

[Wrangler]

No man at any time has seen the Father, the Son has declared the Father. In no way does this destroy the Trinity.

Sure this destroys the trinity for it speaks of the Dynamic Duo.

 

[Wrangler]

If you did, you would understand the Unity that Father and Son share.

Many people have unity. Does not make them one Being/person.