Diserner
Well-known member
It's more fun to tilt at windmills and burn down straw men.
It makes you feel like you really accomplished something.
Let's forgive and pray for even Christians that persecute us.
God is Plural
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
It's more fun to tilt at windmills and burn down straw men.
It makes you feel like you really accomplished something.
Let's forgive and pray for even Christians that persecute us.
sethproton
Active member
ok. that is a better attitude than I have toward Civic
civic
Well-known member
Emptied what ?
civic
Well-known member
What does lower than the angels mean in reference to Christ? Can you explain it’s meaning ?
civic
Well-known member
What does it mean ?
What was emptied ?
civic
Well-known member
Do you agree with the amplified below on the meaning of Philippians 2;7 ? Why or why not ?
Amplified Bible
but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].
Here is another translation that conveys the meaning
Webster's Bible Translation
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And here
New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,
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civic
Well-known member
The Greek is ἑαυτον ἐκένωσεν heauton ekenōsen. The word κενόω kenoō means literally, to empty, "to make empty, to make vain or void." It is rendered: "made void" in Romans 4:14; "made of none effect," 1 Corinthians 1:17; "make void," 1 Corinthians 9:15; "should be vain," 2 Corinthians 9:3. The word does not occur elsewhere in the New Testament, except in the passage before us. The essential idea is that of bringing to emptiness, vanity, or nothingness; and, hence, it is applied to a case where one lays aside his rank and dignity, and becomes in respect to that as nothing; that is, he assumes a more humble rank and station. In regard to its meaning here, we may remark:
(1) that it cannot mean that he literally divested himself of his divine nature and perfections, for that was impossible. He could not cease to be omnipotent, and omnipresent, and most holy, and true, and good.
(2) it is conceivable that he might have laid aside, for a time, the symbols or the manifestation of his glory, or that the outward expressions of his majesty in heaven might have been withdrawn. It is conceivable for a divine being to intermit the exercise of his almighty power, since it cannot be supposed that God is always exerting his power to the utmost. And in like manner there might be for a time a laying aside or intermitting of these manifestations or symbols, which were expressive of the divine glory and perfections. Yet,
(3) this supposes no change in the divine nature, or in the essential glory of the divine perfections. When the sun is obscured by a cloud, or in an eclipse, there is no real change of its glory, nor are his beams extinguished, nor is the sun himself in any measure changed. His luster is only for a time obscured. So it might have been in regard to the manifestation of the glory of the Son of God. Of course there is much in regard to this which is obscure, but the language of the apostle undoubtedly implies more than that he took an humble place, or that he demeaned himself in an humble manner. In regard to the actual change respecting his manifestations in heaven, or the withdrawing of the symbols of his glory there, the Scriptures are nearly silent, and conjecture is useless - perhaps improper. The language before us fairly implies that he laid aside that which was expressive of his being divine - that glory which is involved in the phrase "being in the form of God" - and took upon himself another form and manifestation in the condition of a servant.Barnes
hope this helps !!!
(1) that it cannot mean that he literally divested himself of his divine nature and perfections, for that was impossible. He could not cease to be omnipotent, and omnipresent, and most holy, and true, and good.
(2) it is conceivable that he might have laid aside, for a time, the symbols or the manifestation of his glory, or that the outward expressions of his majesty in heaven might have been withdrawn. It is conceivable for a divine being to intermit the exercise of his almighty power, since it cannot be supposed that God is always exerting his power to the utmost. And in like manner there might be for a time a laying aside or intermitting of these manifestations or symbols, which were expressive of the divine glory and perfections. Yet,
(3) this supposes no change in the divine nature, or in the essential glory of the divine perfections. When the sun is obscured by a cloud, or in an eclipse, there is no real change of its glory, nor are his beams extinguished, nor is the sun himself in any measure changed. His luster is only for a time obscured. So it might have been in regard to the manifestation of the glory of the Son of God. Of course there is much in regard to this which is obscure, but the language of the apostle undoubtedly implies more than that he took an humble place, or that he demeaned himself in an humble manner. In regard to the actual change respecting his manifestations in heaven, or the withdrawing of the symbols of his glory there, the Scriptures are nearly silent, and conjecture is useless - perhaps improper. The language before us fairly implies that he laid aside that which was expressive of his being divine - that glory which is involved in the phrase "being in the form of God" - and took upon himself another form and manifestation in the condition of a servant.Barnes
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Poole
Made himself of no reputation; i.e. most wittingly emptied himself, or abated himself, of the all fulness of glory he had equally with God the Father, that, considering the disproportion between the creature and the Creator, he, in the eyes of those amongst whom he tabernacled, appeared to have nothing of reputation left him, Daniel 9:26. It is not said the form of God was cut off, or did empty itself; but he who did suffer in the form of God, made himself of no account, did empty, abate, or abase himself, (so the apostle elsewhere actively and passively useth the word, 1 Corinthians 11:15, with 2 Corinthians 9:3), and that indeed while subsisting in the form of God, (according to agreement, Zechariah 6:1513:7), not by laying aside the nature of God, but in some other way, i.e. his own way, kept secret till he was pleased to manifest it, Romans 16:25 Colossians 1:26; by freely coming in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16 Hebrews 10:7; which is such an astonishing wonder, and mysterious abasement, as gains the greatest veneration from his saints. Thus for a little time laying aside, at his own pleasure withdrawing, and going aside from his glorious majesty, he lessened himself for the salvation of his people. He had a liberty not to show his majesty, fulness, and glory during his pleasure, so that he could (as to our eyes) contract and shadow it, John 1:14 Colossians 2:9. His condescension was free, and unconstrained with the consent of his Father, John 3:13; so that thongh the Scripture saith: The Most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands, 1 Kings 8:27 Isaiah 66:1 Mark 5:7 Acts 7:48, yet the Son of the Highest can, at his own pleasure, show or eclipse his own glorious brightness, abate or let out his fulness, exalt or abase himself in respect of us. However, in his own simple and absolute nature, he be without variableness or shadow of turning, Jam 1:17 being his Father’s equal, and so abides most simple and immutable; yet respectively to his state, and what he had to manage for the redemption of lost man, with regard to the discovery he made of himself in the revelation of his Divine properties, the acknowledgment and celebration of them by the creatures, he emptied himself, not by ceasing to be what he was before, equal with his Father, or laying down the essential form of God, according to which he was equal to God; but by taking
Made himself of no reputation; i.e. most wittingly emptied himself, or abated himself, of the all fulness of glory he had equally with God the Father, that, considering the disproportion between the creature and the Creator, he, in the eyes of those amongst whom he tabernacled, appeared to have nothing of reputation left him, Daniel 9:26. It is not said the form of God was cut off, or did empty itself; but he who did suffer in the form of God, made himself of no account, did empty, abate, or abase himself, (so the apostle elsewhere actively and passively useth the word, 1 Corinthians 11:15, with 2 Corinthians 9:3), and that indeed while subsisting in the form of God, (according to agreement, Zechariah 6:1513:7), not by laying aside the nature of God, but in some other way, i.e. his own way, kept secret till he was pleased to manifest it, Romans 16:25 Colossians 1:26; by freely coming in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16 Hebrews 10:7; which is such an astonishing wonder, and mysterious abasement, as gains the greatest veneration from his saints. Thus for a little time laying aside, at his own pleasure withdrawing, and going aside from his glorious majesty, he lessened himself for the salvation of his people. He had a liberty not to show his majesty, fulness, and glory during his pleasure, so that he could (as to our eyes) contract and shadow it, John 1:14 Colossians 2:9. His condescension was free, and unconstrained with the consent of his Father, John 3:13; so that thongh the Scripture saith: The Most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands, 1 Kings 8:27 Isaiah 66:1 Mark 5:7 Acts 7:48, yet the Son of the Highest can, at his own pleasure, show or eclipse his own glorious brightness, abate or let out his fulness, exalt or abase himself in respect of us. However, in his own simple and absolute nature, he be without variableness or shadow of turning, Jam 1:17 being his Father’s equal, and so abides most simple and immutable; yet respectively to his state, and what he had to manage for the redemption of lost man, with regard to the discovery he made of himself in the revelation of his Divine properties, the acknowledgment and celebration of them by the creatures, he emptied himself, not by ceasing to be what he was before, equal with his Father, or laying down the essential form of God, according to which he was equal to God; but by taking
Wrangler
Well-known member
Because God is a singular person and not a corporate entity. And Corporate entities don't describe themselves as me, my, I, etc.
Isaiah 44:6
Names of God Bible
The Nations Form Idols, But the Lord Formed Israel
6 Yahweh is Israel’s Melek and Go’el.
He is Yahweh Tsebaoth.
This is what Yahweh says:
I am the first and the last,
and there is no Elohim except me.
civic
Well-known member
Lightfoot’s brief note here says nearly all that can be said with reverent certainty: “ ‘He divested Himself’ not of His Divine nature, for this was impossible, but of the glories, the prerogatives, of Deity. This He did by taking upon Him the form of a servant.”
he that hath ears to hear let him hear
hope this helps !!!
he that hath ears to hear let him hear
hope this helps !!!
sethproton
Active member
Himself
civic
Well-known member
Of what ?
He was no longer a self ?
He was no longer a Him ?
What or who was Jesus then ?
sethproton
Active member
if refers to humans position in the hierachy of creation. Men are lower in creation, angels are lower than God, He is un created.
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civic
Well-known member
So the Son is not eternal and was a created being ? That’s what JW’s teach.
sethproton
Active member
didn't you ask me what he emptied? Himelf. If God was a box, and He emptied the box, it doesn't mean he stops being a box. it means the box is empty
civic
Well-known member
So God became an empty box ?
What emptied please explain what exactly God emptied ?
sethproton
Active member
No, Why is this so hard for you ro understand? Christ is God, I just said he is uncreated,,,
Christ is eternal. never created
Christ exists forever, He is not a created being
Wrangler
Well-known member
Of course. Son's are created and one of the most important facts of the Bible is that Jesus died. Ergo, he had a beginning and an end - like all men.
And again, the Bible is explicit on this point; Jesus is a man. The theological importance of this fact cannot be understated. Jesus must be a man - and only a man - to fulfill the role God has for him. And that is to be the first fruits, our guarentee of God's plan for us. Nothing else will do.
civic
Well-known member
Was the Son equal with the Father in His deity while walking this earth ?
If not explain why.
sethproton
Active member
I have explained this to you 25 different ways over the years, Apprantlt you are never going to understnad from what I tell you
