jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The Abrahamic Covenant is everlasting. It doesn't end.
God Has Made No Covenant With Gentiles
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Abraham was one of many faithful. The promise of Eternal life never ends. That is why it is called Eternal life. You've bought the false narrative you've been taught.
The Heir of all things has come. Promote Him as such. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
That's all well and good.
But God is not done with His Chosen people Israel.
His Bride and Church is Israel and when the Times of the Gentiles end with the destruction of the Gentile nations God removes the blindness from Israel, sends His two witnesses to Israel and Israel finally acknowledge their Messiah in the Person of Jesus and Christ returns to fight against ALL the Gentile nations remaining God brings against His people - and I include Gentile Christians in that group who fight against Israel - then ALL Israel past, present, and future will be saved.
Israel also has some things to inherit as per the covenants: Salvation.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
God is not done with humanity.
There is no evidence that this will happen. Judah was the faithful among Israel. It is an allegory of the faithful from all nations.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
He is a Jew that is one inwardly. Christ has always been the solution. Out of all humanity, God will promote the faithful. There is no wall between any race/ethnicity anymore. Christ is the Heir and has called all men in Himself.
There is nothing greater than Christ. Nothing. That is why when He is with you, prisoners are still free. The slaves of man can find peace in our Lord.
This appeal you're making does nothing more than create seperation from brothers in Christ.
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
This is the same as what Jesus said:
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Jn 17:6.
Those that are redeemed by the blood of Jesus are called out of "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" as His elect are called out from the four corners of the earth, the same description of God sending His angels to gather His elect from the four winds.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mt 24:30–31.
That, incidentally, are where His elect Israel had been scattered in exile but are now returning to their homeland since 1948.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Ezek. 36:24.
14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive. Jer. 29:14.
You mean all this time Abraham's children born of Jacob/Israel were never a Jew?
You see, now that the New Covenant began for the House of Israel at the Feast of Harvest with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise 3000 Jews were born-again and saved and only in this were they a Jew inwardly, but before this day no Jew was one inwardly without the Holy Spirit. But they were a Jew outwardly. And when they had children, their babies were Jew inwardly, too. So, it makes no sense that for over two thousand years all the children of Israel were never a Jew because the Holy Spirit did not come yet and could not have God put His Law in their inward parts because the New Covenant hadn't come yet. ALL Jews were Jew outwardly as they were Jew inwardly because Saul says, "and ALL Israel (Jews) shall be saved" and they are ALL saved through covenant. One doesn't have to be "faithful" because God does not save for being "faithful." God saves His elect Israel for one reason and one reason only: Covenant. What He promised to do IN COVENANT and that is to marry His Bride and Church Israel and none are lost - not even king Saul not Judas Iscariot.
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; Dt 7:5–9.
God does not destroy holy people like Himself. If He did NO ONE who is born-again is safe.
The only true separation is when Christ separates His sheep from the goats.
On the other side of that coin, we must ALL see the same Jesus; we must ALL say the same thing as God.
To do otherwise is to oppose Him.
The "same Jesus" we are to see is the Jesus described in Scripture. The Lord knows those that are His and He will teach His people and they shall all see the same Jesus. He does it through doctrine.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It is not the same. That is your false conflation. Adam was part of the elect. Seth was part of the elect. Enoch was part of the Elect.
Conflation. You have not established the connection. You simply insist it exists.
Have you forgotten what you stated before? The word "Jew" came out of the northern tribe of "JU".... DAH". A distinction between the Israel that had abandoned God and Judah who largely still embraced the promises of David. You know... the one that contained the tribe of Benjamin. It is the very reason Paul appealed to being a "Jew of Jews". Judah and Benjamin being the two tribes that largely refused to marry among Gentiles. (which that since changed significantly).
Nothing more that an statement absent evidence. You know... "CLAIMS".....
I'm going to stop right here. I told you the truth. Accept or not. Cling to your claims or abandon them. Your choice.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
No, it's the same. Something coming out of something else:
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Rev. 5:8–9.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. n 17:6.
Same thing.
Same thing. It exists and I've posted the connection.
There was no other time Israel was scattered among the nations except later on after A.D.70 when the Romans destroyed Israel and their Temple. They passed a law prohibiting Jews from returning to their homeland Israel and Jerusalem. Israel scattered as Jesus prophesied:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Mt 24:15–16.
Israel is not known for its mountain ranges. You have to go outside Israel for any "mountains."
Which is what they did.
Yeah, I know that.
I'll use "Hebrew" to refer to Israel before the twelve tribes were born.
One doesn't have to be "faithful" because God does not save for being "faithful." God saves His elect Israel for one reason and one reason only: Covenant. What He promised to do IN COVENANT and that is to marry His Bride and Church Israel and none are lost - not even king Saul not Judas Iscariot.
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Dt 7:5–8.
[Keeping the "oath" is the same as ""keeping the covenant" and "keeping the promises."
I can see you haven't thought it through.
That's OK. Take some time with this. There's no hurry. What's important is that you grasp/understand it:
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom. 2:25–29.
First, we have a Jew outwardly through circumcision. Circumcision was an outward sign. And by "giving" it to Abraham and to his seed God established covenant.
A Jew inwardly is a Jew outwardly who has both circumcisions: One of the flesh through the Abrahamic Covenant, the other of the "heart" which "heart" means "life." It doesn't mean proverbial "heart" but the life of someone.
It's like saying "Oh, [you] poor soul."
dwight92070
Well-known member
During Jesus' ministry, He told Israel that the Kingdom of God would be taken away from them and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. So Israel has not been God's chosen people ever since then. Peter tells us who is God's chosen people and nation today - all believers in Jesus the Messiah, whether Jew or Gentile:
"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession ... " 1 Peter 2:9 The nation of Israel is NOT synonymous with His bride or His church. Those names are reserved, again, for all believers in Jesus, Jew or Gentile, also called the body of Christ.
ALL of God's enemies will be judged, not just Gentiles - this includes Jewish nonbelievers.
A true Christian, whether Gentile or Jew, would not fight against Israel.
Only the remnant of Israel will be saved - this includes Jewish believers and those who are Jews inwardly among the Gentiles, also known as the Israel of God. ALL of the Israel of God will be saved. Jewish nonbelievers will be lost along with Gentile nonbelievers. The inheritance of true Israel, the body of Christ is the kingdom of God forever. Unbelieving Israel will only inherit judgment.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
First, He didn't say that to Israel. He said it to the religious leaders.
Second, what nation (producing fruit) was He referring?
Well, that would be incorrect. Israel is the apple of His eye and has everlasting covenant with Israel. In fact, when Jesus returns, He will destroy Israel's enemies, sit on the throne of David, and rule the world from Jerusalem. And His Chosen people will be there to receive her King as Promised. Their Redeemer, Deliverer, Messiah, Savior, and King.
Peter was writing to Jewish Christians. He is the apostle to the Jews and the Jews He writes to are Jewish Christians.
The designation of Church ("ekklesia" = called out [ones]) refers originally to the children of Israel God called out and delivered from the bondage of Egypt. In Scripture they are identified as the "Great Congregation in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle and they were delivered from Egypt a people of about 4 million people.
18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation:
I will praise thee among much people.
Ps 35:18.
8 Also at the same time Solomon kept the feast seven days, and all Israel with him, a very great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt. 2 Chron. 7:8.
And as far as being His bride:
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day,
I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens,
And they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil;
And they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
And I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
And I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people;
And they shall say, Thou art my God.
Hosea 2:19–23.
No, those names are reserved to whom God has reserved them.
God has covenant with Abraham and his seed.
God has covenant with Abraham's seed who are the children of Jacob/Israel.
And this covenant includes ALL Hebrew and Jewish descent.
There's a reason Saul said, "and ALL Israel shall be saved" and that is because Saul understood the salvation and deliverance God made in covenant with this people.
Ah, but they do and they will.
Saul took Isaiah's prophecy of a remnant returning to Israel (with the majority remaining in Gentile lands) and changed the word "return" and substituted "saved" which is manipulation of Scripture and highly suspect.
22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea,
Yet a remnant of them shall return:
Isaiah 10:22.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:27.
If I or someone else were to take a Scripture from the OT and post it here and change a word I'd be called out for it. I don't care if Saul was apostle of the apostles, one does not manipulate God's Word as given for their convenience.
Those that are Jews inwardly are also Jew outwardly. You need to look at that passage and the context again and next time, hopefully, come to the knowledge of the truth.
Again, God has covenant with Abraham and his seed (his seed being Isaac) and with the children of Jacob/Israel (his grandson.)
God is a God who keeps covenant, and the covenant encompasses all who are Israel and Hebrew by birth no matter if in this life they were disobedient. God's Promises (covenant) ensures their deliverance and salvation.
The inheritance of true Israel is found in the Abrahamic Covenant. Land and spiritual blessings.
And this is the inheritance of Israel and they understood it as much:
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Lk 18:18.
And they have whether in death or in life.
But in the end Saul said, "and ALL Israel SHALL BE SAVED."
And according to their covenant they will be.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
This is what a Covenant with God looks like. Take note of the intent and the language:
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant;
Gen. 6:18.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen. 17:2.
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen. 17:19.
27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Ex. 34:26–27.
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember;
Lev. 26:42.
The intent of covenant is clearly established. The language clearly establishes a covenant is made. There is no ambiguity. Nothing is hidden. God clearly states He is making a covenant and with who, and the language bears this out.
Nowhere in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets is there any statement of intent nor language of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ever making any covenant with Gentiles. Neither is there in the New Covenant writings from Matthew through Revelations any passage of those writings and with the intent and with the language of covenant that God has made a covenant with Gentiles.
Nor is God a hypocrite.
31 And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shalt drive them out before thee.
32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.
Ex. 23:31–33.
God commands Israel to make no covenant with Gentiles [non-Hebrews].
In all of creation God has made no covenant with any non-Hebrew, and this is so important to Him that He commands His Hebrew people to neither make any covenant with them. And God is not a hypocrite to command His covenant people Israel to never make covenant with any non-Hebrew (Gentiles) nor does He turn when Israel is looking or not looking and make a covenant with Gentiles. He doesn't do it. It is not there. It [covenant with Gentiles] doesn't exist.
It only exists when even Gentiles lean upon their own understanding in the vanity of their minds and re-interpret the Hebrew writings of what's called the Old Testament and the New Testament and insert a covenant with God of their own making by saying born-again Gentile believers are "of the seed of Abraham" or "are spiritual Israel and as a wild Olive tree are grafted into the natural Olive tree and elbow their way into the Abrahamic Covenant simply because they are of Christ or Christian. Born-again Gentiles re-interpret the Holy Scriptures and do so with a Gentile mindset and make huge leaps in their flawed understanding on this point and try every conceivable angle to cast themselves as being in covenant with God.
But such a Gentile covenant with God does not exist. It never has and it never will.
There is no Scripture declaring it. There is no intent of God nor is there language of God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles in Scripture.
And when Gentile Christians come to the knowledge of this truth then they will see as God sees. But until that happens, they will continue to regurgitate a flawed theology and belief that is contrary to God and His Word to their own cognitive and comprehensive hurt.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant;
Gen. 6:18.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen. 17:2.
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen. 17:19.
27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Ex. 34:26–27.
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember;
Lev. 26:42.
The intent of covenant is clearly established. The language clearly establishes a covenant is made. There is no ambiguity. Nothing is hidden. God clearly states He is making a covenant and with who, and the language bears this out.
Nowhere in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets is there any statement of intent nor language of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ever making any covenant with Gentiles. Neither is there in the New Covenant writings from Matthew through Revelations any passage of those writings and with the intent and with the language of covenant that God has made a covenant with Gentiles.
Nor is God a hypocrite.
31 And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shalt drive them out before thee.
32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.
Ex. 23:31–33.
God commands Israel to make no covenant with Gentiles [non-Hebrews].
In all of creation God has made no covenant with any non-Hebrew, and this is so important to Him that He commands His Hebrew people to neither make any covenant with them. And God is not a hypocrite to command His covenant people Israel to never make covenant with any non-Hebrew (Gentiles) nor does He turn when Israel is looking or not looking and make a covenant with Gentiles. He doesn't do it. It is not there. It [covenant with Gentiles] doesn't exist.
It only exists when even Gentiles lean upon their own understanding in the vanity of their minds and re-interpret the Hebrew writings of what's called the Old Testament and the New Testament and insert a covenant with God of their own making by saying born-again Gentile believers are "of the seed of Abraham" or "are spiritual Israel and as a wild Olive tree are grafted into the natural Olive tree and elbow their way into the Abrahamic Covenant simply because they are of Christ or Christian. Born-again Gentiles re-interpret the Holy Scriptures and do so with a Gentile mindset and make huge leaps in their flawed understanding on this point and try every conceivable angle to cast themselves as being in covenant with God.
But such a Gentile covenant with God does not exist. It never has and it never will.
There is no Scripture declaring it. There is no intent of God nor is there language of God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles in Scripture.
And when Gentile Christians come to the knowledge of this truth then they will see as God sees. But until that happens, they will continue to regurgitate a flawed theology and belief that is contrary to God and His Word to their own cognitive and comprehensive hurt.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Racism is the only accurate definition of what you believe.
The Premillenarians teach that, beginning with the death of Christ, God postponed Israel’s kingdom; interrupted or suspended His Abrahamic and Davidic covenants, so far as the guarantee of national blessings to Israel were concerned; ushered in a new dispensation with the advent of the Holy Spirit, declaring His purpose to build that Church spoken of by Christ in Matthew 16:17 to 19, which was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:3 and 4; Ephesians 1:19 to 23). They teach that God, by the Holy Spirit, put into operation on the day of Pentecost, the new covenant, which has since gone on, without interruption from the day of Pentecost down to the present and will continue until the Body of Christ is raptured when Christ descends with the shout and trump of I Thessalonians 4:13 to 18. II Corinthians 3:5 to 12. Hebrews 10:9 to 15. Therefore they teach that the Body of Christ is the New Covenant Church, but they absolutely refuse to call that Church “Spiritual Israel”, teaching that Israel is something entirely different. They claim that Israel, by the terms of the new covenant, will be saved in the tribulation and kingdom, immediately following the rapture of the “New Covenant Church”.
Now let us bear in mind that this was spoken to all Israel. All Israel is to be saved when their Deliverer comes, that is, representatives from all twelve tribes. Romans 11:26. That Deliverer spoke of His coming as the Son of man and Israel’s redemption, in Luke 21:27 to 32. In that same chapter He confirmed concerning scattered Israel and forsaken Jerusalem that which was spoken by Moses in Deuteronomy. Read Luke 21:20 to 24. Read carefully these verses and then read in history the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70 A.D., and you will read the fulfillment in part of Deuteronomy 28, as to eating the flesh of sons and daughters. If you have read; the history of Great Britain and the United States, do you know when either of these nations ever fulfill the twenty-eighth chapter of Deuteronomy? But more of this after we set forth some of the claims of the leaders in the Anglo-Israel Movement.
These statements are copied from literature sent out from the “Anglo-Saxon Federation of America”, Haverhill, Mass.
1. The Bible does not state or infer that the Jews are God’s chosen people. Judah and Israel are entirely distinct and separate entities. II Chronicles 11.
2. The Bible made these prophecies and recorded these facts concerning Israel and the Jews. Israel was to find an island home and be moved no more. The Jews were to be strangers in all lands. Israel was to constitute a kingdom but the Jews were never to be a nation, until reunited with Israel. Jews were to remain under the law and Old Covenant, whereas Israel was to be a Christian people.
3. “Israel had nothing to do with the crucifixion of our Lord, not being in the land, except Benjamin, who accepted Him.”
4. “Ephraim” is England and “Manassah” represents the United States. Manassah was the thirteenth tribe, and that accounts for the discovery of America on October 13, 1492; and the following “thirteens” in American history. Thirteen colonies; 13 bars and 13 stars (flag); 13 letters in “E Pluribus Unum” and 13 feathers, 13 olives, and 13 arrows on American coins. First American navy, 13 ships. Cornerstone of White House laid October 13, 1792. The 13th amendment abolished slavery. General Pershing born September 13, 1860 and arrived in France for participation in the World war June 13, 1917. The first letter in Manasseh is the 13th in both English and Hebrew languages. Herbert Hoover and Charles Curtis each had 13 letters in their names.
5. The Celtic-Anglo-Saxons are Israel, the chosen people of God. The British Isle inhabitants are descendants among others, from the tribes of Saxons (Isaac’s sons), the Danes of Dan, the Jutes of Judah, the Fresians, the Picts, and the Scots, and Normans of Benjamin.
Orthodox -- Orthopodeo -- Orthotomeo
Surely every child of God earnestly desires to be “orthodox”. “Orthodox” in the Greek means to “think right”. When the word is used concerning spiritual things, it suggests that the person is sound in doctrine and perhaps earnestly contending for the faith once-for-all delivered unto the saints. Any
bereanbiblesociety.org
Do you see how dangerous it is? Replacement Theory-YisraEl is STILL God"s chosen and covenental people
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Talk about race. God, when He instituted His Covenant and circumcision, He 'created" a race, and separation from the newly 'created' Gentiles. For there were no Gentiles until there was a Hebrew race. So, yes, God is racist on this count. He MADE the Hebrew race through Abraham and later through Moses MADE them a nation ABOVE ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH!
ABOVE!
L.A.M.B.
Active member
Jeremiah 31:31-34 ( NLT)
"But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days," says the LORD. "I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.Colossians 2:11-12
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Galatians 3:27-28
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.Philippians 2:11-13
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Which is before Jerusalem on the east,
And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
And there shall be a very great valley;
And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north,
And half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains;
For the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal:
Yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
And the LORD my God shall come,
And all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
Not day, nor night:
But it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day,
That living waters shall go out from Jerusalem;
Half of them toward the former sea,
And half of them toward the hinder sea:
In summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
In that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem:
And it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place,
From Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate,
And from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction;
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people
That have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,
And their eyes shall consume away in their holes,
And their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them;
And they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour,
And his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
And the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together,
Gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse,
Of the mule, of the camel, and of the a.s.s,
And of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations
Which came against Jerusalem
Shall even go up from year to year
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
And to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up
Of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
Even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain;
There shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt,
And the punishment of all nations
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses,
HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
And the pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts:
And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Zec 14:1-21
Do you see verse 21?
When Adonai sits on the throne of His glory at Jerusalem only Hebrews will occupy their Promised Land as defined by boundary before Moses died.
And Moses went up from the plains of Moab unto the mountain of Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, that is over against Jericho. And the LORD shewed him all the land of Gilead, unto Dan,
2 And all Naphtali, and the land of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah, unto the utmost sea,
3 And the south, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, unto Zoar.
Deut. 34:1–3.
No Gentiles will live in this area. No stranger, No sojourner. No non-Jew.
God will cleanse the land of all heathen and pagan and Gentile defilment.
God is very racist. Only one race will have the pre-eminence.
The Hebrew/Jewish people.
Through Covenant.
God has made no covenant with Gentiles.
None.
I think you all should do more studying of the Hebrew Scriptures and God's Law given through Moses, especially the Feast of Tabernacles. It will be God's established Laws given through Moses by which God will judge the Gentiles - this includes Gentile Christians.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:31.
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Which is before Jerusalem on the east,
And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
And there shall be a very great valley;
And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north,
And half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains;
For the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal:
Yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
And the LORD my God shall come,
And all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
Not day, nor night:
But it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day,
That living waters shall go out from Jerusalem;
Half of them toward the former sea,
And half of them toward the hinder sea:
In summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
In that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem:
And it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place,
From Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate,
And from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction;
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people
That have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,
And their eyes shall consume away in their holes,
And their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them;
And they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour,
And his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
And the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together,
Gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse,
Of the mule, of the camel, and of the a.s.s,
And of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations
Which came against Jerusalem
Shall even go up from year to year
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
And to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up
Of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
Even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain;
There shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt,
And the punishment of all nations
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses,
HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
And the pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts:
And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Zec 14:1-21
Do you see verse 21?
When Adonai sits on the throne of His glory at Jerusalem only Hebrews will occupy their Promised Land as defined by boundary before Moses died.
And Moses went up from the plains of Moab unto the mountain of Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, that is over against Jericho. And the LORD shewed him all the land of Gilead, unto Dan,
2 And all Naphtali, and the land of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah, unto the utmost sea,
3 And the south, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, unto Zoar.
Deut. 34:1–3.
No Gentiles will live in this area. No stranger, No sojourner. No non-Jew.
God will cleanse the land of all heathen and pagan and Gentile defilment.
God is very racist. Only one race will have the pre-eminence.
The Hebrew/Jewish people.
Through Covenant.
God has made no covenant with Gentiles.
None.
I think you all should do more studying of the Hebrew Scriptures and God's Law given through Moses, especially the Feast of Tabernacles. It will be God's established Laws given through Moses by which God will judge the Gentiles - this includes Gentile Christians.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:31.
Last edited:
Clay
Member
When we enter into a Covenant with Jesus, we identify ourselves with Him; and then it does not matter what our nationality, social position, or sex is: in Christ we are equal. By identifying with Christ, we become the seed (descendants) of Abraham, and we inherit all the promises made to Abraham and his seed.
God is not through with Israel yet, despite the nation as a whole choosing not to believe in Jesus. He provides a thorough-going answer to the question, “Has God rejected His people, Israel?” That answer is a firm, “Absolutely not,” and he provides multiple points of evidence.
God is not through with Israel yet, despite the nation as a whole choosing not to believe in Jesus. He provides a thorough-going answer to the question, “Has God rejected His people, Israel?” That answer is a firm, “Absolutely not,” and he provides multiple points of evidence.
What is the New Covenant? | GotQuestions.org
What is the New Covenant? How is the New Covenant related to premillennialism and amillennialism?
www.gotquestions.org
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
First, this position and belief violate Scripture. When God made the Abrahamic Covenant, the Scripture says it is between God, Abraham, and his seed (descendants.) This covenant is closed for one because it received the signature of circumcision. Signed, sealed, awaiting full delivery.
Second, if God wanted Gentiles in this covenant, they would have been mentioned in the covenant itself in Genesis where the covenant is described.
Third, the Abrahamic Covenant says Abraham and his descendants will be given the land of Canaan which encompasses a greater area of possession. Your position that Gentiles are in the Abrahamic Covenant "through Christ" necessitates Gentiles will also be given the Promised Land to share with the Jews. However, Zechariah states that when the time comes for the Jews to possess their Promised Land that God is going to cleanse the Promised Land of all Gentile presence. Your belief contradicts Scripture.
Fourth, to be in the Abrahamic Covenant God demands Abraham and his descendants (seed) circumcise their flesh and if one does not, they themselves are to be "cut off" from the covenant and the people of the covenant. Have you obeyed what God demands and been circumcised?
Fifth, Since you claim to be in the Abrahamic Covenant which of the twelve tribes do you belong?
I'm pretty sure you are basing your belief that by being in Christ you are automatically now included in the Abrahamic Covenant on Saul's words in Galatian letter chapter 3. Well, I think you've misunderstood what Saul was saying and WHO he was saying it to. So, let's take his letter and come to the knowledge of the truth:
First, let me say that Saul, a Jewish Christian, and a true son of Abraham (being in Christ now according to your erroneous belief would make him TWICE in the Abrahamic Covenant), is writing to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region, NOT to Gentiles. He may mention Gentiles but when he does it must be discerned which Gentile? There were three Gentile groups mentioned in Scripture: Gentile proselytes, God-Fearers, and what I call hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, or Barbarian Gentiles.
Identifying WHO Saul may be referring to is key to understanding his words. But here's the portion of Saul's words upon which Gentile church teaches this error: I will bring out key words to help understand what Saul is saying and TO WHOM he is writing to in the first place. Saul is writing to Jewish Christians:
23 But before faith came, we [Jews] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [Jews} schoolmaster to bring us [Jews] unto Christ, that we [Jews] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [Jews] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [Jews] are all [Jews] the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [Jews] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [Jews] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [Jews] be Christ’s, then are ye [Jews] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:21–29.
The Hebrew nation since the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) had entered the New Covenant era based upon the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31-34. Take note that in this covenant no Gentiles are included because no Gentiles are mentioned as part of ANY Hebrew covenant. These Jewish men (Matthew, Luke, Mark, John, James, Peter, Saul, and the others) are smack dab in the middle of this "new thing" God was doing in the earth and it didn't come with instructions. Well, it did. the instructions are found in the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. In other words, one MUST "search the Scriptures" to understand this New Covenant and what God was doing to and among the Jews.
Jewish Christians that became Jewish Christians through the new birth by the Holy Spirit of Promise were rightly concerned about their standing in the Abrahamic Covenant which Saul addresses perfectly.
First, Gentiles were NEVER "heirs" to the Abrahamic Covenant.
Second, Saul is addressing these Jewish Christian concerns in his Galatian letter as I point out above.
Third, in verse 29 Saul is not making a new covenant here. Saul does not make covenants for God and Christ. God makes His own covenants, and He is NOT making one here.
It is clear from the text in Galatians 3 that Saul is addressing Jews who have become Christians and were worried about their standing in the Abrahamic Covenant. Saul tells them:
"if ye [Jews] be Christ’s, then are ye [Jews] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
So, these passages clearly show Saul is addressing Jews and not Gentiles and the teaching that Gentiles are in the Abrahamic Covenant is untrue.
None of the covenants does God require faith. By virtue of the Hebrew people from Abraham down through to his descendants, the children of Jacob/Israel, being in covenant is self-contained salvation for all Israel. In Acts 2 it says 3000 Jews were born again and the beginning of Christ building His Church. And for four decades until the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple that's exactly what Christ did. Choice is unnecessary in the Jewish covenants. God will keep His promises even though Israel doesn't because the nature and purpose of the covenants is the Redemption of those God has chosen to save.
I hope you take what I clearly brought out from Saul's letter to Jewish Christians, specifically, chapter 3.
ALL the writings from Matthew to Revelation are written to Jews. Gentiles might be mentions, but then one must identify which Gentiles are being spoken of: Proselytes, God-Fearers, or uncircumcised idol-worshiping Romans, Scythians, Greeks, etc.?
It's a good thing to read your overall position towards God's Chosen people Israel.
When we realize, God has promises to fulfill towards Israel that are still yet future then such person is near to the kingdom of God.
In all this ranting of yours, not once is the Ultimate Covenant, that clearly supercedes all other covenants, mentioned by you. Read Luke 22:20.
(Luke 22:20) Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
So are you now going to start crying in your soup that Gentiles stole that inheritance from Israel? Israel itself took that Covenant and threw it out the window. Should you now be demoted below peewee leagues?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Very good.
Here's that Covenant in more detail.
Notice it is a Covenant between God and the House of Israel AND GENTILES ARE NOT THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. None. Never. Ever.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour [meaning a member of the other twelve tribes], and every man his brother [meaning a member of the same tribe], saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.
And you are also correct. It IS the Ultimate Covenant between God and Israel to redeem His covenant people. Thoroughly. Finally.
And pay special notice to the Law of Moses being put in their inward parts and being written in their hearts. This is reference of the Holy Spirit who is going to indwell every Israeli who has ever lived as Saul said in Romans, "and ALL ISRAEL SHALL be SAVED!"
Pay notice also that God does the saving and there is no requirement of faith nor of "accepting Jesus into [one's] heart."
Israel will finally receive her God and God shall finally receive His people.
He will be her Husband, and Israel shall be His Bride. Just the way it is described in Hosea and other prophets.
A New Covenant between God and the House of Israel and again, no mention of Gentiles in this covenant either.
Thanks for bringing this up. Good job.
So now are you going to start crying in your soup that Gentiles stole that inheritance from Israel? It is a historical fact that Israel took that Eucharist Covenant and threw it out the window.
Also, it is a fact that believing Gentiles have been grafted in and those Jews who did not believe have been broken off and cast out.
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
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