Re. God's Purposes Regarding The Gentiles unto whom Paul was sent

[jeremiah1five]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/whats-love-got-to-do-with-it.623/post-81642

Hello again, @jeremiah1five,

* So why did our Lord Jesus Christ send Paul out among the Gentiles? (Acts 26: 16-18)

You need to learn Hebrew/Jewish history because you lack understanding in which when you come to decide on things that took place in Israel with the advent of Israel's Messiah and the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise that was promised by God to the Jews you make many mistakes.

Assyria took the ten northern tribes in their conquest of this people back to Assyria. This also left those that survived the onslaught to be scattered throughout the Gentile world.

Babylon then conquered Assyria and now the conquered ten northern tribes became their problem but soon the two southern tribes were conquered by Babylon and taken back to Babylon and the survivors were scattered again along with the ten northern tribes throughout the Gentile world including Babylon. While in Babylon Judaism developed and the diluted ten northern tribes mixed with the two southern tribes in Babylon and existed there until Cyrus gave permission for the Judean tribes to return back to the Holy Land. But only a remnant returned (about 10%) while the majority (90%) remained in Gentile lands. Without a Temple those that remained in Babylon centered their Mosaic tradition around their feasts while a great many - including the remnant ten northern tribes - produced offspring of several generations the grew up influenced by Babylonian culture and like the people Moses dealt with were a people estranged from their Mosaic traditions and either apostatized or became Hellenized in their Judean religion.

It was a remnant that returned to Israel to begin again to serve the Lord. Now we see the development of the three major sects arise: Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes. A new temple was built upon the ashes of the Old one and the Essenes remained in the mountainous areas while Pharisees and Sadducees remained in Jerusalem. It was the tribe of Judah that remained faithful to God and this tribe were predominantly occupying the Holy Land and Jerusalem hence the name Judaism. When Messiah arrived, He ministered to only the twelve-tribe remnant that lived in Israel. Jesus travelled into Galilee (northern tribe kingdom area) several times and the furthest south he went was Jericho. where southern tribe people lived. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and sent His disciples also to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus never ministered in any non-Hebrew Gentile lands and neither did non-Hebrew Gentiles live in Israel in any sizable number, so everything Jesus did He did to and for the House of Israel.

What was the purpose of the animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Covenant? It was to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel was it not? And also, was the lamb of God sent to atone for the sins of the children of Israel finally and eternally as instructed and commanded by God under the Mosaic Covenant. He didn't come to change the Law to atone for the sins of non-Hebrew Gentiles. That fallacy came later after the destruction of the Jewish Temple. Jesus was alive for at least three Passover Feast observances which meant that Jews that lived in Gentile lands came to Jerusalem as commanded by God and recognized by observant Jews and it was these people that returned back to their homes and synagogues sharing about this prophet named Jesus of Nazareth. Many were also present at His crucifixion along with the Feast of Harvest that year when the Holy Spirit of Promise arrived. The Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to the children of Israel and since Scripture cannot be broken, added to which would break it, subtracted from which would break it, or changed which would break it, Christ died for His people the children of Israel - not for non-Hebrew Gentiles.

The reason why Jesus sent out His disciples "to the Gentiles" before He ascended was because that's where the majority of the lost sheep of the House of Israel lived. Adding to that were Jews that came to the Feast and became born again and these returned back to their homes and synagogues in Gentile lands and took with them an outline of Peter's sermon and their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise - promised to Israel. Peter made reference to their prophet Joel about the Holy Spirit being poured out UPON ISRAEL and his reference to "Ye men of Israel" and "Ye men of Judah" encompasses all twelve tribes of Israel that heard his message.

* If what you say is true, why was it necessary for there to be an Apostle to the circumcision (Peter) and another Apostle for the uncircumcision (Paul), if only those of Israeli descent were to be saved?

There were more than one "apostle to the Gentiles" and at least three "apostles to the Jews" described in the New Covenant writings (Gal.) Saul was born in Tarsus which was a Roman-Gentile city. Saul was a popular name parents gave their male children and so maybe he was identified Saul of Tarsus to differentiate him from another Saul who was also a believer who may have had such a ministry but to the Jews. Saul was a Benjaminite, and his ancestors may have fled to Tarsus to escape a Babylonian attack. James and John were apostles to the Jews, too.

* Why was salvation sent to the Gentiles at Acts 28:28, if only those of Israeli descent had a hope of receiving of God's grace unto salvation?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Would Jesus break Scripture after declaring Scripture cannot be broken? Salvation wasn't sent to the non-Hebrew Gentiles, but salvation was sent to the Jews living in Gentile lands especially after the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests of Israel proper. Remember, only a remnant (10%) returned to Israel while 90% of Jews remained where they lived and that was in Assyria, Babylon, and the surrounding Gentile lands. Some even went as far west as Spain, a place Saul wanted to visit and probably did and that was to let Jews living there who knew nothing about things going on in Israel about Jesus to know He came, and He went but this is the message God wanted them to have and it is this:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 1 Cor. 15:1–11.

It was a message to and for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

 

[Complete]

You need to learn Hebrew/Jewish history because you lack understanding in which when you come to decide on things that took place in Israel with the advent of Israel's Messiah and the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise that was promised by God to the Jews you make many mistakes.

Assyria took the ten northern tribes in their conquest of this people back to Assyria. This also left those that survived the onslaught to be scattered throughout the Gentile world.

Babylon then conquered Assyria and now the conquered ten northern tribes became their problem but soon the two southern tribes were conquered by Babylon and taken back to Babylon and the survivors were scattered again along with the ten northern tribes throughout the Gentile world including Babylon. While in Babylon Judaism developed and the diluted ten northern tribes mixed with the two southern tribes in Babylon and existed there until Cyrus gave permission for the Judean tribes to return back to the Holy Land. But only a remnant returned (about 10%) while the majority (90%) remained in Gentile lands. Without a Temple those that remained in Babylon centered their Mosaic tradition around their feasts while a great many - including the remnant ten northern tribes - produced offspring of several generations the grew up influenced by Babylonian culture and like the people Moses dealt with were a people estranged from their Mosaic traditions and either apostatized or became Hellenized in their Judean religion.

It was a remnant that returned to Israel to begin again to serve the Lord. Now we see the development of the three major sects arise: Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes. A new temple was built upon the ashes of the Old one and the Essenes remained in the mountainous areas while Pharisees and Sadducees remained in Jerusalem. It was the tribe of Judah that remained faithful to God and this tribe were predominantly occupying the Holy Land and Jerusalem hence the name Judaism. When Messiah arrived, He ministered to only the twelve-tribe remnant that lived in Israel. Jesus travelled into Galilee (northern tribe kingdom area) several times and the furthest south he went was Jericho. where southern tribe people lived. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and sent His disciples also to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus never ministered in any non-Hebrew Gentile lands and neither did non-Hebrew Gentiles live in Israel in any sizable number, so everything Jesus did He did to and for the House of Israel.

What was the purpose of the animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Covenant? It was to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel was it not? And also, was the lamb of God sent to atone for the sins of the children of Israel finally and eternally as instructed and commanded by God under the Mosaic Covenant. He didn't come to change the Law to atone for the sins of non-Hebrew Gentiles. That fallacy came later after the destruction of the Jewish Temple. Jesus was alive for at least three Passover Feast observances which meant that Jews that lived in Gentile lands came to Jerusalem as commanded by God and recognized by observant Jews and it was these people that returned back to their homes and synagogues sharing about this prophet named Jesus of Nazareth. Many were also present at His crucifixion along with the Feast of Harvest that year when the Holy Spirit of Promise arrived. The Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to the children of Israel and since Scripture cannot be broken, added to which would break it, subtracted from which would break it, or changed which would break it, Christ died for His people the children of Israel - not for non-Hebrew Gentiles.

The reason why Jesus sent out His disciples "to the Gentiles" before He ascended was because that's where the majority of the lost sheep of the House of Israel lived. Adding to that were Jews that came to the Feast and became born again and these returned back to their homes and synagogues in Gentile lands and took with them an outline of Peter's sermon and their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise - promised to Israel. Peter made reference to their prophet Joel about the Holy Spirit being poured out UPON ISRAEL and his reference to "Ye men of Israel" and "Ye men of Judah" encompasses all twelve tribes of Israel that heard his message.

There were more than one "apostle to the Gentiles" and at least three "apostles to the Jews" described in the New Covenant writings (Gal.) Saul was born in Tarsus which was a Roman-Gentile city. Saul was a popular name parents gave their male children and so maybe he was identified Saul of Tarsus to differentiate him from another Saul who was also a believer who may have had such a ministry but to the Jews. Saul was a Benjaminite, and his ancestors may have fled to Tarsus to escape a Babylonian attack. James and John were apostles to the Jews, too

Would Jesus break Scripture after declaring Scripture cannot be broken? Salvation wasn't sent to the non-Hebrew Gentiles, but salvation was sent to the Jews living in Gentile lands especially after the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests of Israel proper. Remember, only a remnant (10%) returned to Israel while 90% of Jews remained where they lived and that was in Assyria, Babylon, and the surrounding Gentile lands. Some even went as far west as Spain, a place Saul wanted to visit and probably did and that was to let Jews living there who knew nothing about things going on in Israel about Jesus to know He came, and He went but this is the message God wanted them to have and it is this:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 1 Cor. 15:1–11.

It was a message to and for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

@jeremiah1five,

Thank you for addressing my post, and for giving me an insight into your knowledge of the history of the northern tribes, which I have no cause to question. However your understanding of what is termed a Gentile, and of the God determined ministry to them, as evidenced in past entries on the forum, deter me from engaging with you in relation to what, though the testimony of Scripture, you strenuously seek to deny.

May God in His mercy deliver you from this delusion.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mikesw]

@jeremiah1five,

Thank you for addressing my post, and for giving me an insight into your knowledge of the history of the northern tribes, which I have no cause to question. However your understanding of what is termed a Gentile, and of the God determined ministry to them, as evidenced in past entries on the forum, deter me from engaging with you in relation to what, though the testimony of Scripture, you strenuously seek to deny.

May God in His mercy deliver you from this delusion.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It does not take very long to realize that his vision in church only lets him quote two passages. Hopefully God will deliver him from his private interpretation of scripture. There as some details he is accurate about, but his vision won't let him understand enough of scripture to be able to share those findings to the benefit of others. Also, he has not shared how his message benefits Christians who are not of the Israel bloodline.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five,

Thank you for addressing my post, and for giving me an insight into your knowledge of the history of the northern tribes, which I have no cause to question. However your understanding of what is termed a Gentile, and of the God determined ministry to them, as evidenced in past entries on the forum, deter me from engaging with you in relation to what, though the testimony of Scripture, you strenuously seek to deny.

May God in His mercy deliver you from this delusion.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I can't stop you from believing false doctrine.

We shall see in the end.

 

[101G]

Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken. The same goes for God's spoken word. When God spoke His Word to Moses and told him to write down the events described in Genesis 17 (for example) and you're sitting next to Moses and hear what God says to Moses are you going to contradict God and say that He means something else contrary to what He said??? This is what God told Moses:

ERROR, listen to what MOSES told all of God people from God. Deuteronomy 30:11 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off." Deuteronomy 30:12 "It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?" Deuteronomy 30:13 "Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?" Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

and this was confirmed by the apostle Paul, Romans 10:6 "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above" Romans 10:7 "Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)" Romans 10:8 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

did not it was told to hear the prophet that God will raise up? hear ye him, which is Christ.

read Deuteronomy 30 and Romans 10 for there in is all men RIGHTEOUSNESS, OT as well as NT.

101G.

 

[jeremiah1five]

ERROR, listen to what MOSES told all of God people from God. Deuteronomy 30:11 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off." Deuteronomy 30:12 "It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?" Deuteronomy 30:13 "Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?" Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

and this was confirmed by the apostle Paul, Romans 10:6 "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above" Romans 10:7 "Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)" Romans 10:8 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

did not it was told to hear the prophet that God will raise up? hear ye him, which is Christ.

read Deuteronomy 30 and Romans 10 for there in is all men RIGHTEOUSNESS, OT as well as NT.

101G.

Been there, done that.
Thanks.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You COMPLETE-ly misunderstand what I say.

Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken. The same goes for God's spoken word. When God spoke His Word to Moses and told him to write down the events described in Genesis 17 (for example) and you're sitting next to Moses and hear what God says to Moses are you going to contradict God and say that He means something else contrary to what He said??? This is what God told Moses:

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

This covenant has an Heir. That Heir is Jesus Christ. You own nothing. The Heir of all things is Jesus Christ.

Which is why you preach a false gospel that promotes sinful men as being heirs. They're not.

No man has anything Eternal without the sole Eternal Heir of Abraham... Jesus Christ.

You're preaching a gospel of dead men.......

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Christ is alive forever more!

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[101G]

Been there, done that.

so why not OBEY that?

101G.

 

[Complete]

Subject Heading:- God's Purposes Regarding The Gentiles unto whom Paul was sent​

Hello @jeremiah1five,

The following are the words of the risen Christ to Paul, which tells us what God's purpose was regarding both the people of Israel and the Gentiles, to whom Paul was being sent:-

'Delivering thee from the People,
and from the Gentiles,
unto whom now I send thee,
To open their eyes,
and to turn them from darkness to light,
and from the power of Satan unto God,
that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
and inheritance among them which are sanctified
by faith that is in Me.'
(Act 26:17-18)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

This covenant has an Heir. That Heir is Jesus Christ. You own nothing. The Heir of all things is Jesus Christ.

God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his seed. Isaac inherited the promises upon Abraham's death, and Jacob inherited the promises upon Isaac's death. Each succeeding generation inherited the promises in due course.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:23–24.

The Hebrews were "kept" under the Law (schoolmaster) until faith should be revealed. And faith was revealed when the Holy Spirit of Promise arrived - not before. Until His arrival every Hebrew was "kept" until the Holy Spirit arrived. And with His arrival natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel.

Which is why you preach a false gospel that promotes sinful men as being heirs. They're not.

I don't. Since the covenants are with the Hebrew people they were commanded by God to slay an animal to atone for their sins. This continued yearly until Messiah would come and die finally and eternally for the Hebrew people that were "kept" until the Holy Spirit came and faith appeared. They - the Hebrews - may be sinful men but God had a system in place that would lead the people to Christ and when Christ came and died for this people God was satisfied.

No man has anything Eternal without the sole Eternal Heir of Abraham... Jesus Christ.

You're preaching a gospel of dead men.......

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Christ is alive forever more!

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The only men that can approach are those God has called and the people He called are the Hebrews...NOT Gentiles.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Subject Heading:- God's Purposes Regarding The Gentiles unto whom Paul was sent​

Hello @jeremiah1five,

The following are the words of the risen Christ to Paul, which tells us what God's purpose was regarding both the people of Israel and the Gentiles, to whom Paul was being sent:-

'Delivering thee from the People,
and from the Gentiles,
unto whom now I send thee,
To open their eyes,
and to turn them from darkness to light,
and from the power of Satan unto God,
that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
and inheritance among them which are sanctified
by faith that is in Me.'
(Act 26:17-18)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

God's plan is the same. Nothing's changed. As Shepherd God is addressing the material and spiritual need of His people. All three covenants are to and for the Hebrew people and in keeping His promise to this people sent His Son to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Mission accomplished. All Israel shall be saved.
There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in the covenants of God. Anyone who is the seed of Abraham will be delivered from sin and death and eternal separation from their God. God keeps His Promises to His people and this truth led Saul to understand and say, "All Israel shall be saved."
As far as non-Hebrew Gentiles are concerned, God has no covenant to do anything for non-Hebrew Gentiles. In fact, God thinks nothing about these people. At the appointed time they will all be destroyed and removed from His Presence.

 

[Jim]

God's plan is the same. Nothing's changed. As Shepherd God is addressing the material and spiritual need of His people. All three covenants are to and for the Hebrew people and in keeping His promise to this people sent His Son to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Mission accomplished. All Israel shall be saved.
There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in the covenants of God. Anyone who is the seed of Abraham will be delivered from sin and death and eternal separation from their God. God keeps His Promises to His people and this truth led Saul to understand and say, "All Israel shall be saved."
As far as non-Hebrew Gentiles are concerned, God has no covenant to do anything for non-Hebrew Gentiles. In fact, God thinks nothing about these people. At the appointed time they will all be destroyed and removed from His Presence.

For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel (Rom 9:6)

Gentiles are non-Hebrews.

 

[jeremiah1five]

For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel (Rom 9:6)

Gentiles are non-Hebrews.

Here is the whole counsel of God and not just a passage that can be used and manipulated to prove one's pet theories.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Making a distinction between Isaac and Ishmael.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom. 9:6–13.

 

[Jim]

Here is the whole counsel of God and not just a passage that can be used and manipulated to prove one's pet theories.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Making a distinction between Isaac and Ishmael.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom. 9:6–13.

You need to go back to the beginning of the chapter to see what Paul is talking about. He is specifically talking about the concern that he has for "his brothers, his kinsmen according to the flesh". Those are not the ones from Ishmael. Moreover, he says, "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel". He also says, "it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring".

The distinction is between the children of the flesh and the children of the promise, the promise to Abraham (v.7).

 

[mikesw]

You need to go back to the beginning of the chapter to see what Paul is talking about. He is specifically talking about the concern that he has for "his brothers, his kinsmen according to the flesh". Those are not the ones from Ishmael. Moreover, he says, "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel". He also says, "it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring".

The distinction is between the children of the flesh and the children of the promise, the promise to Abraham (v.7).

you are arguing with someone who is informed by a vision experience in church. So jeremiah1five cannot have a change of mind until recanting that vision and being dispossessed of it.

 

[Jim]

you are arguing with someone who is informed by a vision experience in church. So jeremiah1five cannot have a change of mind until recanting that vision and being dispossessed of it.

I don't know about any vision experience in church or what it might mean. But if anyone is arguing from one thinking God has told him something in a vision, I would dismiss that out of hand.

 

[mikesw]

I don't know about any vision experience in church or what it might mean. But if anyone is arguing from one thinking God has told him something in a vision, I would dismiss that out of hand.

One of the threads started by jeremiah1five mentions that vision. he has claimed that his insight into scripture and Christ is better than Paul's. The guy shares some stuff that would be good insights but that decent stuff gets buried in his denial that "gentiles" enjoy blessings in Christ. Nor does he explain why it would be important for him to tell "gentiles" that they cannot follow Christ. That adds to suspicion about his posts.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You need to go back to the beginning of the chapter to see what Paul is talking about. He is specifically talking about the concern that he has for "his brothers, his kinsmen according to the flesh". Those are not the ones from Ishmael. Moreover, he says, "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel". He also says, "it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring".

The distinction is between the children of the flesh and the children of the promise, the promise to Abraham (v.7).

Those that are his flesh are those who are of the twelve tribes. The twelve tribes are in covenant with God and not the children of Ishmael even though they are also seed of Abraham. It is these descendants of Ishmael and Esau that God said are the "nations" and "kings" that would "come out of thee" (Abraham.)
Jacob also had a daughter and may very well be the descendants he is referring to. Jacob did not have any offspring other than the twelve sons and one daughter from two wives and two concubines/servants.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his seed. Isaac inherited the promises upon Abraham's death, and Jacob inherited the promises upon Isaac's death. Each succeeding generation inherited the promises in due course.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:23–24.

The Hebrews were "kept" under the Law (schoolmaster) until faith should be revealed. And faith was revealed when the Holy Spirit of Promise arrived - not before. Until His arrival every Hebrew was "kept" until the Holy Spirit arrived. And with His arrival natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel.

I don't. Since the covenants are with the Hebrew people they were commanded by God to slay an animal to atone for their sins. This continued yearly until Messiah would come and die finally and eternally for the Hebrew people that were "kept" until the Holy Spirit came and faith appeared. They - the Hebrews - may be sinful men but God had a system in place that would lead the people to Christ and when Christ came and died for this people God was satisfied.


The only men that can approach are those God has called and the people He called are the Hebrews...NOT Gentiles.

Where is Christ in your thoughts above? Please identify Him clearly and preach Him.

Like I said.....As most false teachers do, you ignore Christ to insert your own false teachings.

So how is this "gospel" your preaching going without Christ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Where is Christ in your thoughts above? Please identify Him clearly and preach Him.

Like I said.....As most false teachers do, you ignore Christ to insert your own false teachings.

So how is this "gospel" your preaching going without Christ?

My call does not require me to "preach Jesus."
I don't push Jesus on people who don't want to know about Him.
I await the season to share my faith and what I know of this "so-great salvation" but ONLY when the season presents itself.
Not even Jesus preaches Himself to people. He doesn't have to. We are not all "apostles" and we all do not have the same call to "preach Jesus" to people. I think you have misunderstood what Jesus instructed His disciples to do in Matthew 10 and in Acts 1. Yes, that's exactly what you've done.