God Has Made No Covenant With Gentiles

[Johann]

It was a mystery and even Peter post Pentecost did not believe the gentiles could be saved until God came to him in a dream. It took Gods intervention to remove the blinders and reveal the gentiles were part of Gods plan that was even hidden to the disciples at that time in the book of Acts. See acts 10 with Peter after Sauls conversion in Acts 9. Notice how closely those 2 events are linked- Peters dream following Pauls conversion- the Apostle to the gentiles.

For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written:

“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman, So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”

In this allegory we have the answer to the question of. Galatians 3:21. “Is the law against the promise of God?” Note in Galatians 3:17, that the law which was given from Mount Sinai 430 years after God gave His promise to Abraham did not annul that promise.

After Paul had preached the gospel of grace throughout Galatia and many of the sinners had been saved, some very religious law-keepers went forth proselyting and preached a mixture of law, religion and grace.

After Paul had declared God’s anathema and had given the Scriptural answers to the false teachings of the legalists he said that Hagar from Egypt, a bondwoman, spoke of the law, and that her son Ishmael was not the child of promise, but rather, was brought forth as the result of the flesh. Isaac was the child of promise. Sarah was the freewoman.

The bondwoman, Hagar, and her son, Ishmael, scoffed at Sarah and Isaac. God said, “cast them out.” God’s application of truth is that no part of the law can be mixed with God’s message of grace as a factor in the sinner’s salvation.

Galatians 2:21

“I do not frustrate the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

Romans 3:28

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

Many more-but space will not permit me Chris.

 

[DavidTree]

@Johann @civic @jeremiah1five @Grace ambassador

HIDE and SEEK = HIDDEN and REVEALED

Are Jews, today, able to understand/SEE these Mysteries written in their own Scriptures/Law/Prophets???

No, they cannot even though MESSIAH is read by them almost everyday in their own Scriptures.

Are Gentiles, who must rely on Hebrew Scriptures, able to understand/SEE these Mysteries???

No, they cannot unless God calls them out of Darkness =
Case in point: Roman Catholicism which i was raised in and yet i was still in Darkness until the Light of the Gospel shined from Above

TODAY, If you hear His Voice.......................

We, Brethren, are Living in TODAY because His Voice echoed in our souls/spirits saying: "IAM the Way, the Truth and the Life, follow Me"

TODAY, with the Holy Spirit AND the Scriptures we can Know God and have this Mystery Living inside us!

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father,
and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”


Rejoice and lift up each other in Prayer and Praise to God our Father = we are Family Forever in the Kingdom of the Love of His SON

 

[Johann]

And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets

“Ought not Christ to have suffered these things? and to enter into His glory?” The cross must come before the crown. There was no other way by which the divine plan of redemption for the individual soul and for the world at large could be carried out.

The Lord proceeded to give them a running exposition of practically the whole Old Testament.

How one would have delighted to have been in their company that day and heard the blessed Christ of God unfold the Scriptures, referring to His whole life, His rejection, His death on the cross, and resurrection, and even His ascension to God’s right hand, for in Psa_110:1 we read, “The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.”

He went through the prophecies of the whole Old Testament, beginning with Moses. Our Lord never cast any doubt on the authorship of the first five books of the Bible.

Unbelieving critics today may question it. They go so far as to deny that Moses wrote those books, but our Lord had no such doubt.

He said, “Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me” (Joh_5:46).

He knew that Moses was the writer of the early books. “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.” What a Bible-reading that was! Their hearts were thrilled as the Lord Jesus showed how He was the theme of all phophecy, and so He gave them the key that opens up the Scriptures as nothing else can. Who has ever been able to expound the Word of God and give such a wondrous unfolding of divine truth as our Lord gave that day!
This here a quotation form Ironside-How great is our God!

Shalom
Johann.

 

[Johann]

@Johann @civic @jeremiah1five @Grace ambassador

HIDE and SEEK = HIDDEN and REVEALED

Are Jews, today, able to understand/SEE these Mysteries written in their own Scriptures/Law/Prophets???

No, they cannot even though MESSIAH is read by them almost everyday in their own Scriptures.

Are Gentiles, who must rely on Hebrew Scriptures, able to understand/SEE these Mysteries???

No, they cannot unless God calls them out of Darkness =
Case in point: Roman Catholicism which i was raised in and yet i was still in Darkness until the Light of the Gospel shined from Above

TODAY, If you hear His Voice.......................

We, Brethren, are Living in TODAY because His Voice echoed in our souls/spirits saying: "IAM the Way, the Truth and the Life, follow Me"

TODAY, with the Holy Spirit AND the Scriptures we can Know God and have this Mystery Living inside us!

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father,
and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”


Rejoice and lift up each other in Prayer and Praise to God our Father = we are Family Forever in the Kingdom of the Love of His SON

Family forever-Amen and Amen.

 

[DavidTree]

Family forever-Amen and Amen.

Something to SEE

 

[jeremiah1five]

Something to SEE

I'm going to download to my phone.
LOL.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm going to download to my phone.
LOL.

If you get enough people to download this to their phones, will they get the message???

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you get enough people to download this to their phones, will they get the message???

The irony is the video shows people characters mind-numbed to their cell phones and I want to download to my phone (implying I'm numbed to my phone, too.)
You got that, yes? lol.

 

[DavidTree]

The irony is the video shows people characters mind-numbed to their cell phones and I want to download to my phone (implying I'm numbed to my phone, too.)
You got that, yes? lol.

Picked up on it right away and it was a good lol.

That is why i asked in humor, how many downloads until they get the message!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I think you make some very good points but, technically, isn’t the Noahic covenant a covenant which God made with Gentiles?

And that is TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT in 2023. Eph 2:8,9 covers it nicely.

 

[civic]

And that is TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT in 2023. Eph 2:8,9 covers it nicely.

Yes it does brother !!!

 

[DavidTree]

And that is TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT in 2023. Eph 2:8,9 covers it nicely.

i understand your point with Eph ch2, however i would not say "TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT" unless you clarified that we live in TODAY which brings us to CHRIST and the NEW COVENANT = which is the FULFILLMENT of the Covenant made to Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham.

Have a Great Day = TODAY

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Church, or Great Congregation of the LORD is Israel. The Bride of Christ is Israel for God says in the Old Testament that He is betrothed to Israel forever. But God has made no covenant with Gentiles.
When all is said and done, and Israel's Messiah and King sits on the throne of David to rule His people from Jerusalem there will be a Marriage Supper of the Lamb and His Bride. Israel is there by covenant, but Gentiles will be there by invitation.
God has made no covenant with Gentiles.

Some of you have probably wondered why I've mentioned there are those who treat Gentile Christians as "second class citizens".

Here is a perfect example.

1. Salvation through Christ predates any covenant with Abraham.

Covenants are "PROMISES" from God.

1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The promises given to Abraham have always been based on the fact that God promised salvation BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN...... in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ the heir of all promises given. Countless children of Adam have had the promises of Jesus Christ long before Abraham was ever born.

So these types of argument are ridiculous. All it does it create competition of egos among the children of Adam. Lord knows.... there is far too much of that going on today.

 

[DavidTree]

Some of you have probably wondered why I've mentioned there are those who treat Gentile Christians as "second class citizens".

Here is a perfect example.

1. Salvation through Christ predates any covenant with Abraham.

Covenants are "PROMISES" from God.

1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The promises given to Abraham have always been based on the fact that God promised salvation BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN...... in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ the heir of all promises given. Countless children of Adam have had the promises of Jesus Christ long before Abraham was ever born.

So these types of argument are ridiculous. All it does it create competition of egos among the children of Adam. Lord knows.... there is far too much of that going on today.

Hallelu-YAH = someone SEES the MESSAGE = "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"

 

[jeremiah1five]

@Johann @civic @jeremiah1five @Grace ambassador

HIDE and SEEK = HIDDEN and REVEALED
Are Jews, today, able to understand/SEE these Mysteries written in their own Scriptures/Law/Prophets???

Yes, they are. Jews have for the past 1,970 years been drawn to their Redeemer in reverse number to when the early Church of 2000 years ago was populated predominantly by born-again Jews but several hard-core, uncircumcised non-covenant Gentiles being were being born-again and saved. Now, it has been the last 1,930 years been born-again and a small number of Jews drawn to their Messiah.

No, they cannot even though MESSIAH is read by them almost everyday in their own Scriptures.

You make it sound as though God STOPPED saving His people during this era of Times of the Gentiles which is incorrect. Jews are being saved while we wait for the Times of the Gentiles to end, which is not too far away, and then God turns His full attention back to Israel, removes their blindness, and picks up where He left off and continues to build His Church which begun on Pentecost A.D. 32.

Are Gentiles, who must rely on Hebrew Scriptures, able to understand/SEE these Mysteries???

Yes, they can. There is a group, for instance, who call themselves "Jews for Jesus." No doubt God is still revealing Himself to Israel.

No, they cannot unless God calls them out of Darkness =

And that's what He's been doing the last 1,930 years since Pentecost A.D. 32.
God has not forsaken His people nor break His covenant with them.

Case in point: Roman Catholicism which i was raised in and yet i was still in Darkness until the Light of the Gospel shined from Above
TODAY, If you hear His Voice.......................

Did you really 'hear His actual voice"?

We, Brethren, are Living in TODAY because His Voice echoed in our souls/spirits saying: "IAM the Way, the Truth and the Life, follow Me"

Is that what He said in your soul/spirit?

TODAY, with the Holy Spirit AND the Scriptures we can Know God and have this Mystery Living inside us!

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father,
and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”


Rejoice and lift up each other in Prayer and Praise to God our Father = we are Family Forever in the Kingdom of the Love of His SON

Now consider who you are and as such your 'relationship' with God. Are you Jew or are you Gentile. Because there is difference between how God "treats" each group. One is in covenant; the other is not.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Some of you have probably wondered why I've mentioned there are those who treat Gentile Christians as "second class citizens".

Here is a perfect example.

1. Salvation through Christ predates any covenant with Abraham.

Covenants are "PROMISES" from God.

1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The promises given to Abraham have always been based on the fact that God promised salvation BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN...... in Jesus Christ.

I presume you're targeting what God said to the serpent in Genesis 3:15?
God made no covenant with Adam and Eve. The first mention of covenant is with Noah and his seed in Genesis 9:9

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen. 9:9–13.

First, this covenant is specifically with Noah and his seed.
Second, as you can see by the language the covenant addresses God destroying the earth with flood waters. All living creatures from within the Ark benefit.
Third, this covenant is also towards the earth itself.

Jesus Christ the heir of all promises given. Countless children of Adam have had the promises of Jesus Christ long before Abraham was ever born.

But looking back one can see a particular family ancestry that threads through Adam to Abel, Seth, to Eber (father of the Hebrew), to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Daivd, and to Joseph and to Jesus. God is discriminate, not indiscriminate in who He's chosen to reveal Himself and to what family or ethnic line.

So these types of argument are ridiculous. All it does it create competition of egos among the children of Adam. Lord knows.... there is far too much of that going on today.

Not "among" the children or Adam, but between those who are recipients of God's covenant promises and those who are not. In time we see that God has Sovereignly chosen one family line to have covenant with over all the families of the earth. And the covenant that really matters is the one to whom He made promise and that would be Abraham.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Dt 7:6–8.

The "father's" God is referring are found identified here:

1 THE book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; Mt 1:1–2.

Abraham the Hebrew and to his son, Isaac, and to his grandson Jacob. Later, the Mosaic Covenant is made with the children of Jacob/Israel, a people of twelve tribes also known collectively as the Jews.

 

[Brakelite]

I am not Hebrew. I am born of European bloodlines (although I've never been there) but am redeemed by the same blood

 

[Brakelite]

I am not Hebrew. I am born of European bloodlines (although I've never been there) but am redeemed by the same blood of the same Lamb that redeemed those of the children of Israel who by faith in Christ receive the promises.
KJV 2 Peter 1:1-4
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:... Yay... That's me!!!
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
That's a covenant made with gentiles.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I am not Hebrew. I am born of European bloodlines (although I've never been there) but am redeemed by the same blood of the same Lamb that redeemed those of the children of Israel who by faith in Christ receive the promises.
KJV 2 Peter 1:1-4
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:... Yay... That's me!!!
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
That's a covenant made with gentiles.

Let's first establish that the New Covenant writings of Saul, Peter, James John, etc., were written by Jewish Christians and to and for other Jewish Christians and in their writings, they address Israel's history, their culture, their covenants (Abrahamic and Mosaic), their Tabernacle and Temple, their kingdoms, and the main people in-between.
First, the Advent of Israel's prophesied Messiah arrived and changed everything, but He didn't change the covenants, merely fulfilled them to an extent.
Then, the Advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise arrived, and the era of the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and Judah began on the Day of Pentecost and in one day 3000 Jews were born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit and at this point began what Jesus promised Israel through His disciples to build His Church, a Church which is a continuation of the Church (Greek: "ekkesia" meaning "called out [ones]) from out of Egypt and wandered in the desert at the time of Moses and the Tabernacle in which nearly 4 million Jews in a new covenant (Moses) were identified as the "Great Congregation" (in the desert.)

Second, the 'new thing' God began on Pentecost required searching the Hebrew Scriptures to understand what was going on in Israel and with the Hebrew people. Peter, James, John and the rest knew God was effecting events and people in this New Covenant era that was fulfillment of the New Covenant Jeremiah prophesied in chapter 31 and God's covenant with the House of Israel.
If you take a sincere look at the writings of Saul, Peter, James, and John you will see these men writing letters to other Jewish Christians discussing and trying to bring understanding of things taking place in Israel and with the Jewish people. And let's be honest here, as Jews who have covenant with God and taking in consideration their Redeemer, King and Messiah, Jesus Christ's arrival and the same with the Holy Spirit, they looked at everything through the eyes and mind of Jewish covenant and background. The Jewishness of these events cannot be denied they were occurring in Israel and with the Jewish people.

Third, while their Temple still stood everything was seen through a Jewish lens of history, covenants, practices of Temple and Tabernacle life, through their prophets, through their Scriptures and the Church Christ promised to build was being built which Church was populated by Jewish Christians who became born-again and proceeded to 'muddle through' the next four decades searching their Scriptures and learning as they went along. The Gentiles mention in the epistles must first be identified as circumcised Gentile proselytes who would attend synagogue life and privy first to the testimonies of Jewish Christians as they talked about their experiences with the Holy Spirit and of Israel's Messiah who came and died on a tree, a Roman cross. In A.D. 70 the Romans warred against Israel, defeated them and destroyed their Temple and the Jews were scattered throughout the then-known world. This destruction of their Temple effectively ended the "ism" of Judaism, and a new era was to begin. The era of the Times of the Gentiles in which Israel is blinded and scattered and God begins to "bring in" hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles to salvation and WITHOUT a covenant.

Thus, what I am trying to say and trying to 'get at' is the New Covenant writings of Saul, Peter, James, etc.), were written to other Jewish Christians and discuss things going on in Israel and their attempts at understanding what God was now doing to and for Israel proper. They are discussion and there are NO NEW COVENANTS in their writings, only discussion of their already existing covenants of Abraham and Moses, along with Psalms and Prophets. These epistles and the other writings that make up the New Covenant Scriptures, we today must first understand them in context to Israel and interpret them accordingly, that is, through a Jewish mindset of understanding. But to immediately take their writings as though they were writing to Gentiles is error. They may contain references to and for Gentiles, but let's not forget Gentile proselytes before we attempt to understand and apply them to Hungarians, or German, or French, or through a Gentile, free world western non-Jewish culture.
If you can see the Jewishness of their writings and understand them in this context, I believe your biblical understanding will deepen.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I presume you're targeting what God said to the serpent in Genesis 3:15?
God made no covenant with Adam and Eve. The first mention of covenant is with Noah and his seed in Genesis 9:9

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen. 9:9–13.

First, this covenant is specifically with Noah and his seed.
Second, as you can see by the language the covenant addresses God destroying the earth with flood waters. All living creatures from within the Ark benefit.
Third, this covenant is also towards the earth itself.

But looking back one can see a particular family ancestry that threads through Adam to Abel, Seth, to Eber (father of the Hebrew), to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Daivd, and to Joseph and to Jesus. God is discriminate, not indiscriminate in who He's chosen to reveal Himself and to what family or ethnic line.

Not "among" the children or Adam, but between those who are recipients of God's covenant promises and those who are not. In time we see that God has Sovereignly chosen one family line to have covenant with over all the families of the earth. And the covenant that really matters is the one to whom He made promise and that would be Abraham.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Dt 7:6–8.

The "father's" God is referring are found identified here:

1 THE book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; Mt 1:1–2.

Abraham the Hebrew and to his son, Isaac, and to his grandson Jacob. Later, the Mosaic Covenant is made with the children of Jacob/Israel, a people of twelve tribes also known collectively as the Jews.

I quoted the NT. I quoted Paul and Peter. They appealed to a time before the world began. A promise to humanity before the first human (Adam) was formed.

Why are you talking about Genesis?

Christ is the heir of all things. The heir of Abraham. The heir of Adam. He is King of Kings. Lord of Lord. In Him, all men are equal. Without Him all men are condemned.