civic
Well-known member
Yes the Son was together with the Father sharing the same Glory together before the world was created. John 17:5.
From what position did Jesus Christ lower Himself?
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
- Start date
101G
Well-known member
Correct. many do not understand the ECHAD of God, JESUS/YESHUA as the "ANOTHER" of himself, or as the Greeks say in the NT the G243 allos of himself in Flesh.
the Key to this UNDERSTANDING can be found right at the beginning in Genesis, Chapter 1 and verse 1. the Hebrew term "Beginning says it all,
H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
and this "FIRST" is in Ordinal Designations
so the ECHAD of God is clearly seen in the OT and the NT, that was to come.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
100% correct. now a question. did JESUS as Son of God Create and MAKE... "ALL THINGS?" No, not as Son of God.
I commend all who know that it is JESUS who created and MADE ALL THINGS..... but in what capacity, as Father, or Son?
this is the sticking point. but not for 101G. in the ECHAD of the Godhead, JESUS as the Ordinal First created and MADE all things, but not in the capacity as Son in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state while in flesh. he even tells us so. as Son in Natural Flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state while on earth he CREATED and MADE...... "NOTHING". but as the Ordinal First/LORD/ Father, he in that capacity in the ECHAD, made and CREATED "ALL THINGS"
people, people, people, understand the Godhead in the ECHAD capacity of Ordinal First/LORD/title Father, CREATOR and MAKER of ALL THINGS. and in the capacity of Ordinal Last/Lord/Title Son, REDEEMER and SAVIOUR of that he CREATED and MADE as the Ordinal First. man if people can grasp the understanding of Ordinal First, and Ordinal Last, the bible will open up clearly.
foot note: as Ordinal First and Last, this is the reason for the pronoun shift in scriptures. US and OUR, in reference to HIM and HE, it's just amazing how God put truth so close in our faces until we sub-consciously just read by, or pass it without notice.
101G will keep on saying it..... ECHAD, Ordinal First and Ordinal Last.
101G.
APAK
Active member
Thanks Doug for your reply.
I do not believe as you do on this topic.
Have a great Day....and a blessed one.....APAK
101G
Well-known member
Doug Brents
Well-known member
OK, please break this down in simple English. I cannot follow what you are saying.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
I appreciate that you do not believe as I do, but you should not believe differently than what Scripture says. And Scripture says clearly that Jesus participated in the creation of everything that was created, and that He was both with God, and was God, from the beginning.
What part of that do you not believe?
101G
Well-known member
ok, God is a ECHAD of himself EQUALLY SHARED as First and Last, in "TIME", "PLACE", ORDER" or "RANK".
101G
civic
Well-known member
No there was no " Jesus" prior to the Incarnation, that is His human name, His birth name as a man. He was the Son prior to the Incarnation, the Eternal Son without beginning, just as the Father is Eternal so to is the Son. Its the Son speaking in John 17:5 about His and the Fathers shared glory together before Creation.
John 17:1 proceeds John 17:5.
17:1“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
17:5- And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
He can't. He is making an "association" argument based upon what he thinks ancient Hebrew relates. It is nothing more than conjecture. It is an extension of traditional "Oneness" teachings.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
And this means what about Jesus? Jesus is God just as the Father is God just as the Holy Spirit is God. Three beings so united in power and purpose that they are one entity.
101G
Well-known member
ERROR, listen, Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb." the NAME was here before the WORLD was even Made.
the Son was to Come. this is why we have H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym. it's the same one Person in the ECHAD. Listen, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." that's why the term "BEGINNING" in Genesis 1:1 is to be understood. "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", or "RANK".
101G.
civic
Well-known member
Nice try but thats not what the bible says. All it states like with every parent is they pick out a name before they have a child. I did that will all our children before they were born, We had picked out names before they were formed in the womb.
Luke 2
The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told.
21 On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.
101G
Well-known member
understand there is ONLY "ONE" Person who is GOD. now Listen, Father and Son are ONLY TITLES of the ONE person whom you calls the Holy Spirit..... (smile). the Holy Spirit is the ONE TRUE GOD who is JESUS. in the ECHAD of God, he Jesus the Holy Spirit is the Ordinal First, LORD, all cap. Title Father, CREATOR and MAKER of ALL THINGS. and as Ordinal Last, he is REDEEMER, and SAVIOUR of ALL THAT HE CREATED and MADE. do you understand now. whom you put Last is FIRST, and Last
101G.
101G
Well-known member
another ERROR on your part, Listen, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." WHEN WAS THAT DAY THAT CAME? John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
WHO WAS SPEAKING IN BOTH PLACES? JESUS... B.A.M. BAM, BAM... (Smile)
101G.
civic
Well-known member
You are changing the argument- we are talking about the human name given to the Son at His birth.
Jesus did not pre exist as a man, He pre existed as the Eternal Son. You are conflating them.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
I'm going to give you some advice. The best way to understand ancient Hebrew is to correlate the many uses of various words together to enable you to determine the specific range of meanings with each word. You're making an argument from time without considering Scriptures that contradict your conclusion.
civic
Well-known member
Exactly !
God means what He says and says what He means. He sent the Son is everywhere in the N.T.
It doesn't say God sent Jesus, but God sent the Son.
Rockson
Well-known member
So 101G. Open up something to me clearly so I can see where you're coming from . Are you into the Oneness belief that there is no real Father God and Jesus is God but no Father?
101G
Well-known member
no, 101G is what God is, and what God taught, Diversified ONENESS in the ECHAD of First and Last. God is the EQUAL SHARE of himself in flesh that was to come. now came, and is Amalgamated in GLORIFIED Flesh. meaning as Revelation states, he is the "which is, and which was, and which is to come", or simply put "I AM THAT I AM"...
now, understand. there is a FATHER, which is a TITLE, who is JESUS, and there is a SON, which is a TITLE, who is JESUS in the ECHAD of God the ONE PERSON who is JESUS, the "HOLY Spirit". and these titles are in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", or "RANK".
101G.
