Freed from : Calvinism-TULIP-5 points Hyper-Calvinism

[Jim]

We know God will replace this universe/world and recreate a brand new one. This version 1 will pass and Version 2.0 will be permanent.

I do not believe that eternal life will be a physical existence. Instead, it will be purely spiritual in nature. The concept of eternal life in a physical world is not rational.

 

[civic]

I do not believe that eternal life will be a physical existence. Instead, it will be purely spiritual in nature. The concept of eternal life in a physical world is not rational.

I’ll get you this after church and golf today

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No we are not damaged or stained by anything that Adam did.

Your right,

We are placed in adam. Adam being our head.

Just like when we are placed in christ. Christ is our spiritual head

Just Like Israel was placed into moses. Their spiritual head.

In adam all die. So that in christ all shall be made alive

Augustine is a man, lets listen to God and not worry about what some man long since dead believed

 

[civic]

I do not believe that eternal life will be a physical existence. Instead, it will be purely spiritual in nature. The concept of eternal life in a physical world is not rational.

So you don’t believe heaven is a real place having a real throne or a physical Jesus who still has His Resurrected body the disciples saw and touched still having the marks in His body from His crucifixion in His side, hands and feet ?

You also don’t believe in the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven 1500 miles by 1500 miles ?

 

[Jim]

So you don’t believe heaven is a real place having a real throne or a physical Jesus who still has His Resurrected body the disciples saw and touched still having the marks in His body from His crucifixion in His side, hands and feet ?

You also don’t believe in the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven 1500 miles by 1500 miles ?

I believe heaven is real. I do not believe heaven is a physical "place". I don't believe that Jesus is still in His physical resurrected body; I believe He is in His spiritual "body". He was Spirit before coming to earth in the form of man.

John 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

I don't believe in a literal physical New Jerusalem. I don't believe in a literal city of pure gold (Rev 21:19). I don't believe in literal gates of pearl, etc. etc.

The message in all such descriptions is that no matter how great, how magnificent, how glorious we might think of heaven and life in heaven, it will be orders of magnitude greater than we can even picture or imagine with our limited experiential physical existence here on earth in this physical universe.

 

[Jim]

In adam all die. So that in christ all shall be made alive

That is referencing physical dying and the resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns.

 

[GodsGrace]

He didn't.

He said "πᾶσα ἡ κτίσις" [all the creation]. This is essentially the same thing that Mark said, " πάσῃ τῇ κτίσει." [the whole creation] in Mark 16:15. Except there the whole creation is recognized as being everyone, i.e., every person, not the animals nor the brute inanimate creation. Thus Romans 8 should also be limited to mankind, not the animals nor the brute inanimate creation.

From Strong's:

G2937
κτίσις
ktisis
ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.


From Thayer:

G2937
κτίσις
ktisis
Thayer Definition:
1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc
1a) the act of creating, creation
1b) creation, i.e. thing created
1b1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
1b1a) anything created
1b1b) after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called)
1b1c) the sum or aggregate of things created
1c) institution, ordinance

Gotta love Strong's.
It could mean anything.

Why did you HIGHLIGHT CREATURE?

Why didn't you highlight CREATION..THINGS CREATED...ACT OF ESTABLISHING...ANYTHING CREATED...
THE SUN OR THINGS CREATED....

??

 

[GodsGrace]

That is referencing physical dying and the resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns.

All die in Adam....

the reference can be physical or spiritual.

Adam died SPIRITUALLY first
and then
Physically.

We now all die physically and also spiritually.

This is why we need salvation from spiritual death.

Ephesians 2:5
5Even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved
Ephesians 2:1
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

 

[GodsGrace]

None of Romans 8:18-23 really makes any sense if you include the entire brute creation and the animal kingdom apart from human beings. The sun, the moon and the stars do not wait in eager expectation of anything. And the same for the animals, Only mankind can have the capacity for anything being presented in that passage.

If you disagree, please explain in what capacity can any besides man possibly exhibit anything presented there, including longing, awaiting, futility, bondage, freedom, groaning.

Sure it makes sense.
It just doesn't fit YOUR theory.

Paul changes from ALL OF CREATION to MANKIND,,,and I posted the verses.

Nature is infected with the sin nature just as man is.
But this goes against your belief system so you must deny it.

Are there hurricanes? Earthquakes?
WHY?

Do some fruit grow beautifully and some grow with bumps and defects?
WHY?

The sin nature effects EVERYTHING on earth.
Everything.

You want to believe there is no sin nature.
It's what makes us sin.

But you want to believe that it's US that sin....
Fine...but
WHY?

 

[MTMattie]

First, the interpretation of water in Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus as the amniotic water of birth is simply ludicrous. No such euphemism of born in water being the physical birth was ever presented in the Bible.

I disagree.

 

[GodsGrace]

Again, please explain, specifically and literally, what it means for the sun, moon and stars to "wait in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God".

You could check out post 708 but you won't believe it.

We get stuck in our very own theologies and nothing can pull us out.

This is what Calvinists do....
They just cannot understand the meaning of a verse because they bring their own theology to it.

ALL OF CREATION is affected...
the moon is dead.
it has died.
it used to be something alive.

What killed it?

Suns end. They flare up and disappear.
Their power runs out.
Why?

Planets crash into each other.
Why?

 

[Jim]

Gotta love Strong's.
It could mean anything.

Why did you HIGHLIGHT CREATURE?

Why didn't you highlight CREATION..THINGS CREATED...ACT OF ESTABLISHING...ANYTHING CREATED...
THE SUN OR THINGS CREATED....

??

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

So do you proclaim the gospel to the rocks, mountains, oceans, sun, moon and stars? Why not? They are all part of the whole creation.

 

[Jim]

I disagree.

Where else do you find that euphemism?

 

[Jim]

You could check out post 708 but you won't believe it.

The passage of 1 Corinthians 115:12-34 is specifically about the resurrection of the dead. Are you a universalist? Will everyone be saved? If not, then what does 1 Corinthians 15:22 mean when it says there that in Christ all shall be made alive.

 

[Jim]

ALL OF CREATION is affected...
the moon is dead.
it has died.
it used to be something alive.

What killed it?

What do you mean the moon used to be something alive? There is no indication that anything outside of the earth was ever physically alive.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

So do you proclaim the gospel to the rocks, mountains, oceans, sun, moon and stars? Why not? They are all part of the whole creation.

Funny stuff Jim.

I'll overlook this.

Do you also believe THE WHOLE WORLD means the mountains in John 3:16?

CONTEXT
CONTEXT
CONTEXT

I don't like to argue words...so believe what you will.

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you mean the moon used to be something alive? There is no indication that anything outside of the earth was ever physically alive.

Whatever Jim.
Study some astronomy.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

So do you proclaim the gospel to the rocks, mountains, oceans, sun, moon and stars? Why not? They are all part of the whole creation.

By the way,,, you did NOT reply to all my question marks.

Know why?
You cannot.

Because YOUR theory cannot answer those questions.

If you can come up with an answer,,,I'm here.

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you mean the moon used to be something alive? There is no indication that anything outside of the earth was ever physically alive.

I don't know....
I came back to tell you this:

Have you ever seen a desert?
Did it have green plants growing? (or other colors)
It's known as a desert that is alive because plants are living and are considered to be "alive".

Did you ever see a desert that has NOTHING growin in it?
It's dead.
There is nothing ALIVE there.

The moon used to have water on it.
It used to be alive.
It's DEAD now.
Nothing LIVES on it.

I got this link for you. There's plenty more.

Moon Water and Ices - NASA Science

What’s big, covered in water, yet 100 times drier than the Sahara Desert? It’s not a riddle, it’s the Moon!

science.nasa.gov

 

[JLB]

Reader,

Lets look deeper now., into this "Doctrine of [Edit]" that started with Calvin, and was evolved into Hyper-Calvinism (TULIP) "the 5 points".

A "TULIP"> a hyper calvinist, a "5-point">.. is one who believes in Calvinism = extremism .

So, both the Calvinist and the Hyper, have been led to believe that Paul the Apostle is a Calvinist. a 5 Point Hyper Calvinist.
And that is what they TEACH and BELIEVE.

So, lets look at that, and then i'll show you one more, in the next post..

First, lets understand why a person goes to hell and not to heaven..
Its simply because they "died in their sin, never forgiven", and were never born again. So, they died separated from God, by their Sin..
So, that situation, does not allow you to go to Heaven, because you were not forgiven all your sin.... born 'In Christ" as "one with God", before you died.
This is why Jesus told us.....>"YOU, MUST, be born again", and if you are not you are not a Son/Daughter of God when you died, and so your eternity is spent, where those who are not born again Sons/Daughters of God, end up... and that is not in Heaven......
There is only one other option. : HELL.

Now, Calvin and the Hyper-Calvinist, teach that Paul is a 5-point Hyper Calvinist, as they teach that a few verses that Paul wrote, that they SEE as meaning what Calvin teaches and others who evolved Calvins theology in Hyper-Calvinism.., proves that Paul is a Calvinist, and a Hyper Calvinist.
They believe that a few of Paul's verses teach the 5-points of Hyper- Calvinism as well as Calvinism.

So, listen now.... as you have to see this... in your understanding.

If Paul is a Calvinist, then Jesus is a Calvinist....... as Paul RECEIVED all His Theology "not from any man, but from the LORD", Himself.
So, If Paul is a Calvinist, then Jesus is a Calvinist., according to Calvinism and Hyper Calvinism that is "the 5 Points"..(TULIP).

Therefore, if Paul and The Lord Jesus The Christ are both Calvinists, then they will understand "pre-destined" to believe."
They will understand "pre-chosen" to believe"
They will understand "God causes you to believe or you can't".
And they will teach that always.

Now, lets look at some Verses..

1.) "their remainth no more sacrifice for your sin" because you have "willfully sinned", the sin of UNBELIEF... "just as your Father's did".

So, those verses are Hebrews 6 & 10.. .and this one..

“'"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY Spirit.!""""

So, Hyper Calvinism, teaches that this isn't possible, as you have no free will..
Yet if the Forum member can read, you Just read PAUL tell Christ rejectors, that "THEY...ALWAYS resist the Holy Spirit."
This means that Paul is one confused Calvinist, Hyper Calvinist, or that Calvinism and the "5-points" (TULIP) is a "doctrine of Devils"., as Paul just blamed them for their "resisting the Holy Spirit" that the '5-points" of Hyper Calvinism, says isn't possible.

Now when you read that "you always RESIST THE HOLY SPIRIT", then that is "you are resisting the Truth, that is the Gospel being revealed to you".., and that is also Hebrews 10".. ."If you willfully sin"...(will not believe in Jesus, willfully) there remainth no more JESUS FOR YOU... "there remaineth no more SACRIFICE for your SIN." because of your Willful decision to reject the Sacrifice who is JESUS ON THE CROSS.

So, then If Paul is the "5-point" Hyper Calvinist, who teaches that "you can't choose Christ unless you are caused to believe by the HS"............. then Paul just lied when He taught us that = THEY Resisted the Holy Spirit = Willfully........as does every Christ Rejector.

Notice that Paul didnt say..>>"well, dont worry about it, because you were just not chosen to believe".

Look now at Acts 28:28... as this is actually Hebrews 10... in the Book of the "ACTS of the Apostles."
Paul said to UNBELIEVING JEWS........>>"I will take the Gospel to the Gentiles, and they will Believe it".
So, if these JEWS were "pre-chosen" to not be the "5-Point, Hyper-Calvin" "chosen to believe" .. then you notice that Paul didnt say... "no worries, you can't believe because you are not of the chosen to believe"..

Reader, why did Paul forget all his Hyper-Calvinism, and "TULIP"< "5-points" in these Verses?

A.) Its because Paul is not a Calvinst.. Paul is not a "5-Point " TULIP... = Deceiver.

Yes agreed.

Calvinism believes Saul of Tarsus was already regenerated while persecuting the church.


Sad.