Freed from : Calvinism-TULIP-5 points Hyper-Calvinism

[civic]

the issue is @JLB is trying to say Saul was already regenerated when Stephen was stoned according to calvinism.

this is in error

no thats impossible- even Paul declares murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul was a murderer until Damascus Road experience with Jesus.

Paul received the Holy Spirit after Damascus.

Acts 9:17-19
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18;Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19;and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

 

[JLB]

When Saul was there during stephen stoning. He was not born again yet according to calvinism
, You can say he was until your blue in the face. your wrong.
No calvinist would think this

I know he wasn’t.

But many in Calvinism teach that we are born again before we believe.

 

[JLB]

in Calvinism regeneration ( new birth, born again, born of the spirit, from death to life etc .... ) occures before the hearing and believing of the gospel.

Yes sir.

Please explain that to EG.

 

[JLB]

the issue is @JLB is trying to say Saul was already regenerated when Stephen was stoned according to calvinism.

That is what Calvinist’s believe not me.

I have stated this several times now.

 

[JLB]

no thats impossible- even Paul declares murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul was a murderer until Damascus Road experience with Jesus.

Paul received the Holy Spirit after Damascus.

Acts 9:17-19
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18;Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19;and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

My point in using Saul of Tarsus to the Calvinist is to show them the error in their theology.

They claim that Christians are regenerated, born again before they believe the Gospel.


When you ask them when Saul was born again, they have no answer.

 

[civic]

My point in using Saul of Tarsus to the Calvinist is to show them the error in their theology.

They claim that Christians are regenerated, born again before they believe the Gospel.


When you ask them when Saul was born again, they have no answer.

Agreed but the text tells us as I pointed out in Acts 9

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I know he wasn’t.

But many in Calvinism teach that we are born again before we believe.

This is what you said

Yes agreed.

Calvinism believes Saul of Tarsus was already regenerated while persecuting the church.


Sad.

Before that he had Stephen murdered.

He was on his way to Damascus for more of the same.

1. Saul did not have Stephen murdered.
2. Saul was not persecuting the church when he was regenerated according to Calvinism. He was regenerated after he got knocked off his horse. His persecution of the church had ceased to be a priority at this time, He met the lord of Heaven

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes sir.

Please explain that to EG.

He does not have to. EG already knows this..

JLB needs some guidance on listening skills

 

[JLB]

This is what you said

Yes. That is standard Calvinism teaching.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That is what Calvinist’s believe not me.

NO THEY DO NOT!!

I have stated this several times now.

and you are wrong every time you say it.

Either way, thanks for proving what I was saying was right.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes. That is standard Calvinism teaching.

shaking my head.

Are you able to listen to what people are saying?

 

[JLB]

1. Saul did not have Stephen murdered.

“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”
Stephen the Martyr
When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Now Saul was consenting to his death.
Acts 7:51-8:1

Here is the meaning of the Greek word “consenting”.

Saul was pleased, and gratified his plan to persecute and murder Christian’s was carried out.

 

[JLB]

NO THEY DO NOT!!



and you are wrong every time you say it.

Either way, thanks for proving what I was saying was right.

I guess you don’t even understand what the teachings of Calvinism entail.

 

[JLB]

Being born again before one can believe is standard in Calvinism and related theologies. Many, maybe most, think that Abraham was born again before he believed.

shaking my head.

Are you able to listen to what people are saying?

Jim understands.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”
Stephen the Martyr
When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Now Saul was consenting to his death.
Acts 7:51-8:1

Here is the meaning of the Greek word “consenting”.

Saul was pleased, and gratified his plan to persecute and murder Christian’s was carried out.



View attachment 1952

do you understand the difference between I approve, I Am pleased. I hit like on a facebook post because I approve?

and I am in charge, I command you to go do this.

All this says is Saul approved of what happened. it did not say he had him killed.


You said he had Stephen killed. He did not have stephen killed. He approved of it

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I guess you don’t even understand what the teachings of Calvinism entail.

I understand it completely

Already told you. Calvinism teaches it is almost an instantaneous action between the time one is regenerated and they come to faith

Stephen was killed DAYS befire this happened.

so no calvinist would say Saul was regenerated when he held the clothes of those who stoned Stepehn

again. you seem to have a comprehension or reading problem.

and to be honest. it is getting frustrating.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Jim understands.

You still do not understand

Calvinism teaches one is regenerated before faith.

I KNOW THIS

your saying MORE THAN THIS, and misrepresenting calvinism by saying Paul was already regenerated (saved) when he stoned Stephen

again, can you comprehend what you are saying and what others are trying to tell you

 

[Jim]

so no calvinist would say Saul was regenerated when he held the clothes of those who stoned Stepehn

He was regenerated but still needed to have his sins washed away???? I don't think so.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

He was regenerated but still needed to have his sins washed away???? I don't think so.

Oh I agree

But again, That is not what JLB is saying

He was saying a Calvinist would say he was regenerated when Saul watched Stephen get killed

this is not true.

 

[JLB]

do you understand the difference between I approve, I Am pleased. I hit like on a facebook post because I approve?

and I am in charge, I command you to go do this.

All this says is Saul approved of what happened. it did not say he had him killed.


You said he had Stephen killed. He did not have stephen killed. He approved of it

He was the Pharisee of Pharisee’s and was appointed to destroy the church.


He was on his way to Damascus for more of the same when Jesus appeared to him.


Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
Acts 9:4-5


Do you believe Jesus was encountering the main guy that was heading up the persecution of some underling?