Freed from : Calvinism-TULIP-5 points Hyper-Calvinism

The moon used to have water on it.
It used to be alive.
It's DEAD now.
Nothing LIVES on it.

Sounds like the prodigal son and His sheep who became lost.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32


The Son was alive while connected to the father in relationship, but he disconnected and became lost.

Just exactly like the branches in the Vine became disconnected.


He had to return to the Lord and be restored, just like Peter returned and was restored.


While apart from the Lord they became spiritually dead, lost.


  • for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’
 
Sounds like the prodigal son and His sheep who became lost.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32


The Son was alive while connected to the father in relationship, but he disconnected and became lost.

Just exactly like the branches in the Vine became disconnected.


He had to return to the Lord and be restored, just like Peter returned and was restored.


While apart from the Lord they became spiritually dead, lost.


  • for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’
Exactly.
I brought up the sheep that went astray...maybe in the OSAS thread.

It went ASTRAY.
Which means that one CAN go astray.

We must believe all of scripture and not just the verses that sound comforting to us.

Lies are not comforting but dangerous.
 
Exactly.
I brought up the sheep that went astray...maybe in the OSAS thread.

It went ASTRAY.
Which means that one CAN go astray.

We must believe all of scripture and not just the verses that sound comforting to us.

Lies are not comforting but dangerous.


We see why the sheep went astray when we examine Matthew’s version of the parable of the lost sheep.


What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
.
Matthew 18:12-17


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
.


Here we see what Jesus is teaching His disciples. If one of His sheep sins, the go after him and pleaded with him to repent of his sin and return. In this way you will gain your brother back.


However if he chooses to be stubborn and does want to stop sinning then go and get another brother to continue to work with the brother who sins.


If after hearing two brothers try to get him to return, he continues to remain stubborn, then go get the church, including the church leadership and try to convince the brother to repent and return in order to be restored back to Christ.


Then after all this if this Christian brother want to continue in his sin, then consider him as a sinner, a tax collector or a heathen.


This is the biblical way of going after one of His sheep who has become lost.



James the brother of the Lord says it this way -

  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
 
Calvinism believes Saul of Tarsus was already regenerated while persecuting the church.
Can you cite any sources that affirm this ?
I cannot find a Calvinist that said that, but the BIBLE does say this …
  • Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. (NKJV)
So what does “who separated me from my mother’s womb” mean? What did God separate Paul (Saul) for (from the “womb”)?

I think “regenerated” is a reach not supported by scripture, but I think there is a question in there worth asking about what “separated” means.
 

At least many of them do.

They teach a person must first be born again before they can believe.

Acts 9 is when Saul believed.

As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.
So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.
Acts 9:3-6

He confessed Jesus as Lord.


Before that he had Stephen murdered.

He was on his way to Damascus for more of the same.
 
At least many of them do.

They teach a person must first be born again before they can believe.

Acts 9 is when Saul believed.

As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.
So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.
Acts 9:3-6

He confessed Jesus as Lord.


Before that he had Stephen murdered.

He was on his way to Damascus for more of the same.
But he was not born again even in the calvinist sense when they stoned Stephen, And even then, all he did was essentially hold their coats while they stoned him.

We have to be careful about falsly accusing people of things.. that does not help us
 
But he was not born again even in the calvinist sense when they stoned Stephen, And even then, all he did was essentially hold their coats while they stoned him.

We have to be careful about falsly accusing people of things.. that does not help us

Brightfame is on the main Forum where I teach.

He has openly stated that a person is born again BEFORE they believe.
 
Brightfame is on the main Forum where I teach.

He has openly stated that a person is born again BEFORE they believe.
Yes I’ve heard the same thing it’s a Calvinist distinctive. Regeneration happens before the hearing and believing of the gospel. God must regenerate the dead corpse
 
Just to set the record straight from a “Calvinist” Confession, the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith states …
Of Saving Faith
Chapter 14, Paragraph 1:
The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,(2 Cor 4:13; Eph 2:8) and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word;(Rom. 10:14,17) by which also, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord's supper, prayer, and other means appointed of God, it is increased and strengthened. (Luke 17:5; 1 Pet. 2:2; Acts 20:32)
  • 2 Cor 4:13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak,”
  • Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
  • Rom. 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
  • Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
  • Luke 17:5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
  • 1 Pet. 2:2 Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—
  • Acts 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Paragraph 2
By this faith a Christian believes to be true whatsoever is revealed in the Word for the authority of God himself, and also apprehends an excellency therein above all other writings and all things in the world, as it bears forth the glory of God in his attributes, the excellency of Christ in his nature and offices, and the power and fullness of the Holy Spirit in his workings and operations: and so is enabled to cast his soul upon the truth consequently believed; and also acts differently upon that which each particular passage thereof contains; yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life and that which is to come; but the principle acts of saving faith have immediate relation to Christ, accepting, receiving, and resting upon him alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.

Paragraph 3
This faith, although it be in different stages, and may be weak or strong, yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kind or nature of it, as is all other saving grace, from the faith and common grace of temporary believers; and therefore, though it may be many times assailed and weakened, yet it gets the victory, growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.

(Verses omitted, but available at this LINK)

“born again” does not appear in the Confession as an act or state prior to having faith (and the term may or may not appear in the Confession at all). However, the 1689 BCF does affirm God as the first cause in the salvation of man (if you choose to redefine God acting on human hearts as ‘born again’, then so be it … the BCF does not).
 
Brightfame is on the main Forum where I teach.

He has openly stated that a person is born again BEFORE they believe.
Yes
And listen to them,. It is an almost instantaneous thing.

so there is no way Saul was saved when stephen was stoned.

I do nto like calvinism either. But we can not falsely accuse them no more then we can allow them to falsely accuse us
 
Brightfame is on the main Forum where I teach.

He has openly stated that a person is born again BEFORE they believe.
Being born again before one can believe is standard in Calvinism and related theologies. Many, maybe most, think that Abraham was born again before he believed.
 
lol. A calvinist would not say he was born again then.

So no. this does not make calvinist teaching false (this example) what it does is falsely accuse them

Again, this is what a Calvinist was teaching.

His forum name is brightfame52.

I’m not accusing every Calvinist of this but some believe this, and teach this.
 
Again, this is what a Calvinist was teaching.

His forum name is brightfame52.

I’m not accusing every Calvinist of this but some believe this, and teach this.
Again

When Saul was there during stephen stoning. He was not born again yet according to calvinism
, You can say he was until your blue in the face. your wrong.
No calvinist would think this

According to calvinism, He would have been born again most likely when he was knocked off the horse which happened long after the stoning of Stephen. Or maybe not until the Annanias came into the room.

Yes. they believe you are born again before.

NO - no calvinist would think he was born again when stephen was killed

Humble yourself man.. You are right in what they say about what happens before faith.

You are wrong in this case about when it happened.

PS. I know the user. the user and I have had many a conflict. I usually do not respond to him.

He seems sometimes to be even more than a Calvinist. saying things most Calvinists do not even believe.
 
Funny stuff Jim.
Only to one who doesn't understand what Paul is talking about in Romans 8.
I'll overlook this.
Please don't.
Do you also believe THE WHOLE WORLD means the mountains in John 3:16?

CONTEXT
CONTEXT
CONTEXT

I don't like to argue words...so believe what you will.
Yes,

CONTEXT
CONTEXT
CONTEXT

The context demands that the entire passage, Romans 8:18-30, is speaking of a creation, a creature, that is mentally capable and aware of its circumstances and condition. This section is actually introduced by verses 12-17 which references we who are children of God who are heirs with Christ.

And in verse 17, Paul says, "and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him". Why?

"Because I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us" (v.18).

And then Paul continues to further expand on that idea in the rest of that passage. It is dealing with humanity. And specifically, not only humanity generally, "but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies" (v.23).
 
Again, this is what a Calvinist was teaching.

His forum name is brightfame52.

I’m not accusing every Calvinist of this but some believe this, and teach this.
in Calvinism regeneration ( new birth, born again, born of the spirit, from death to life etc .... ) occures before the hearing and believing of the gospel. The dead corpse cannot hear, see, understand until it is brought to life via regeneration then they can see , hear and understand the gospel.

Its backwards theology. Scripture teaches the opposite that one is drawn by God, hears the gospel, responds to the call, confesses Jesus as Lord then regeneration happens.
 
in Calvinism regeneration ( new birth, born again, born of the spirit, from death to life etc .... ) occures before the hearing and believing of the gospel. The dead corpse cannot hear, see, understand until it is brought to life via regeneration then they can see , hear and understand the gospel.

Its backwards theology. Scripture teaches the opposite that one is drawn by God, hears the gospel, responds to the call, confesses Jesus as Lord then regeneration happens.
the issue is @JLB is trying to say Saul was already regenerated when Stephen was stoned according to calvinism.

this is in error
 
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