civic
Well-known member
Tulip is double predestination even Calvin knew that lol
Freed from : Calvinism-TULIP-5 points Hyper-Calvinism
- Thread starter Behold
- Start date
Read it. LOL.
Has known of a God or His existence. Instinctively we know of the existence of a God or a higher power. That's a long way from hearing the gospel. Romans 1 has nothing to do with preaching the gospel. Your simply seeing what you want to see.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
atpollard,
The Catechism of the Catholic Church also has verses listed.
So what?
My whole point is that we should use the bible...
and you reply with a Confession.
Only the reformed use the Confessions.
Other Christians DO NOT.
How about posting some verse that state that man is unable to seek God?
Maybe something other than Romans 3:10?
GodsGrace
Well-known member
So you mean to tell me that before the gospel EVERYONE was lost?
(since, apparently, according to you, only the gospel saves).
If i meant to say that I would. Let me do this your way. You mean to tell me one does not have to hear the gospel to be saved???
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Of course that's what I mean to say.
If a person must hear the gospel to be saved...
it would mean no one in the OT was saved.
And you know that many in OT times were saved.
By the very same way that you and I are saved....
by faith.
Hebrews 11:1-8
1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
2 For by it the men of old gained approval.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
all those poor OT believers who are lost. because they did not hear the gospel.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
atpollard
Well-known member
John Calvin: born July 10 1509; died May 27, 1564
Synod of Dort: held in 1618-1619 in Dordrecht, Netherlands, was a significant theological event that addressed the controversy surrounding Arminianism within the Dutch Reformed Church. The synod's main goal was to clarify Reformed doctrine and offer a deeper understanding of salvation, particularly in response to the rise of Arminian theological views. The synod's decisions, known as the Canons of Dort, articulated five core doctrines of Calvinism.
T.U.L.I.P.: Although many credit Loraine Boettner (1901-1990) in The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (1932) with originating the acrostic for the Five Points of Calvinism known as TULIP it is believed that the true originator was instead Cleland Boyd McAfee (1866-1944), who did so in 1905.
If "Calvin knew" what the Synod of Dort would write 54 years after his death or how that would be popularized into an acronym 341-360 years after his death ... that was a pretty neat trick!
I think you are just a deranged hater of John Calvin and would blame him for Liberalism in the modern Methodist Church if asked about it.
civic
Well-known member
are you denying the doctrines of grace came from the teaching of calvin ?
John Calvin: born July 10 1509; died May 27, 1564
Synod of Dort: held in 1618-1619 in Dordrecht, Netherlands, was a significant theological event that addressed the controversy surrounding Arminianism within the Dutch Reformed Church. The synod's main goal was to clarify Reformed doctrine and offer a deeper understanding of salvation, particularly in response to the rise of Arminian theological views. The synod's decisions, known as the Canons of Dort, articulated five core doctrines of Calvinism.
T.U.L.I.P.: Although many credit Loraine Boettner (1901-1990) in The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (1932) with originating the acrostic for the Five Points of Calvinism known as TULIP it is believed that the true originator was instead Cleland Boyd McAfee (1866-1944), who did so in 1905.
If "Calvin knew" what the Synod of Dort would write 54 years after his death or how that would be popularized into an acronym 341-360 years after his death ... that was a pretty neat trick!
I think you are just a deranged hater of John Calvin and would blame him for Liberalism in the modern Methodist Church if asked about it.
can you read this with an objective mind ?
atpollard
Well-known member
Apparently the bullet points of Scripture confused you so much that you were unable to read the paragraph that was actually written. Here it is:
God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.
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civic
Well-known member
yep
atpollard
Well-known member
Yes.
There are 5 Doctrines of Grace because the Synod of Dort was responding to the 5 articles of the Remonstrances presented by the Arminians as specific challenges to Reformed Theology as it was then taught. The Synod met at Dort to decide if these new "reformed" ideas (taught by students of Jacob Arminius) were orthodox, heterodox or heretical teachings. The Synod ultimately ruled (right or wrong) that the 5 articles of Remonstrances were incorrect and offered 5 refutations that they believed were what Scripture actually taught. It was these 5 specific Reformed refutations to the 5 proposed Arminian "Remonstrances" that later came to be known by the acronym TULIP in the 20th Century (300 years after Dort and almost 400 years after Calvin).
John Calvin was a Reformed Theologian, so the idea that what he wrote agrees with what later Reformed Theologians wrote is not a surprise. I suspect that Martin Luther agrees with much of what the Synod of Dort wrote ... but that does not prove that Luther created TULIP or that TULIP and Lutheranism are synonymous. It just proves that they read the same Bible and reached some of the same sotierological conclusions.
I have heard that John Calvin was inclined towards "Limited Atonement" but could not accept it as definitive because he felt that scripture was not sufficiently clear one way or the other. If true (I have not read Calvin's work for myself, nor have I any interest - I am a Baptist and, thus Sola Scriptura for authority), then Calvin could not be the author of TULIP since he would at best be a 4-point TU*IP (theologically speaking).
atpollard
Well-known member
Are you claiming the ghost of John Calvin was at the Synod of Dort and possessed Cleland Boyd McAfee in 1905?
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atpollard
Well-known member
I don't think that I can ...
"Did you know that the events God foreknew in 1 Samuel 23 did not occur ..."
This feels like SLANDER against Scripture and God rather than commentary on Calvin or Gill.
I am uncomfortable taking inspiration from one that opens with the blasphemy against the word of God as a GIVEN and just moves on with no need to support his accusation that "Scripture got it wrong and, therefore, cannot be trusted."
If he had a point, I will never reach it. He lost me with his opening line.
I believe:
Of the Holy Scriptures
Chapter 1
Paragraph 1
The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience,1although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet they are not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and His will which is necessary unto salvation.2Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in diversified manners to reveal Himself, and to declare (that) His will unto His church;3and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which makes the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now completed.41 2 Tim. 3:15–17; Is. 8:20; Luke 16:29,31; Eph. 2:20
2Rom. 1:19-21, 2:14–15; Psalm 19:1-3
3Heb. 1:1
4Prov. 22:19-21; Rom. 15:4; 2 Pet. 1:19–20
Paragraph 2
Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Esther
Job
Psalms
Proverbs
Ecclesiastes
The Song of Solomon
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Ezekiel
Daniel
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi
—
MatthewMark
Luke
John
Acts
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude
Revelation
All of which are given by the inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life.5
52 Tim. 3:16
Paragraph 3
The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon or rule of the Scripture, and, therefore, are of no authority to the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of than other human writings.66Luke 24:27,44; Rom. 3:2
Paragraph 4
The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, depends not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God.77 2 Pet. 1:19–21; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Thess. 2:13; 1 John 5:9
Paragraph 5
We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church of God to a high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scriptures; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, and the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, and many other incomparable excellencies, and entire perfections thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.88 John 16:13-14; 1 Cor. 2:10-12; 1 John 2:20, 27
Paragraph 6
The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men.9 Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word,10 and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.119 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Gal. 1:8,9
10 John 6:45; 1 Cor. 2:9-12
11 1 Cor. 11:13,14; 1 Cor. 14:26,40
Paragraph 7
All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all;12 yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of ordinary means, may attain to a sufficient understanding of them.1312 2 Pet. 3:16
13 Ps. 19:7; Psalm 119:130
Paragraph 8
The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old),14 and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic; so as in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal to them.15 But because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have a right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded in the fear of God to read,16 and search them,17 therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,18 that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner, and through patience and comfort of the Scriptures may have hope.1914 Rom. 3:2
15 Isa. 8:20
16 Acts 15:15
17 John 5:39
18 1 Cor. 14:6,9,11-12,24,28
19 Col. 3:16
Paragraph 9
The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which are not many, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly.2020 2 Pet. 1:20–21; Acts 15:15–16
Paragraph 10
The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved.2121 Matt. 22:29, 31, 32; Eph. 2:20; Acts 28:23
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Who cares what the Synod of Dort addressed.
John Calvin: born July 10 1509; died May 27, 1564
Synod of Dort: held in 1618-1619 in Dordrecht, Netherlands, was a significant theological event that addressed the controversy surrounding Arminianism within the Dutch Reformed Church. The synod's main goal was to clarify Reformed doctrine and offer a deeper understanding of salvation, particularly in response to the rise of Arminian theological views. The synod's decisions, known as the Canons of Dort, articulated five core doctrines of Calvinism.
T.U.L.I.P.: Although many credit Loraine Boettner (1901-1990) in The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (1932) with originating the acrostic for the Five Points of Calvinism known as TULIP it is believed that the true originator was instead Cleland Boyd McAfee (1866-1944), who did so in 1905.
If "Calvin knew" what the Synod of Dort would write 54 years after his death or how that would be popularized into an acronym 341-360 years after his death ... that was a pretty neat trick!
I think you are just a deranged hater of John Calvin and would blame him for Liberalism in the modern Methodist Church if asked about it.
Could you post some scripture that states that man was predestinated to heaven (or hell)?.
I haven't found any.
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