Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
I do not think I have ever seen this, but it would make sense.
Faith precedes life !
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Johann
Well-known member
1 Corinthians 2:14
“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”
This passage is often used by Calvinists to support the claim of Total Depravity/Total Inability. As with all Calvinist proof texts, it is taken out of context. We simply have to read the passages before and after to understand Paul’s meaning and intention. In the preceding verses, it’s clear that Paul is addressing and discussing that believers in Christ need to rely on the Spirit to discern and grow in understanding. Three verses later Paul calls these same Christians unspiritual:
3:1-3: “Brothers and sisters, I couldn’t talk to you like spiritual people but like unspiritual people, like babies in Christ. I gave you milk to drink instead of solid food, because you weren’t up to it yet. Now you are still not up to it because you are still unspiritual. When jealousy and fighting exist between you, aren’t you unspiritual and living by human standards?”
Paul tells these Christians they can’t accept “the things of the Spirit of God” because they are choosing to follow the flesh rather than the Spirit. The point is, whether Christian or not, setting your mind on the things of the world/flesh will close you off to God. Only out of context can Calvinistic philosophy be read into this verse.
What say you?
J.
civic
Well-known member
And you would be wrong contradicting Jesus and the Apostles teaching on the topic
civic
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TibiasDad
Well-known member
God gives choice to man; man does not cause God to give him something God doesn’t want to give.
God essentially says “I want you; do you want me?” “Come , all who are thirsty, and drink of the free water of life!”
There is no hint of “I’ve chosen some to want to come and some to reject coming.”
Doug
The subject is faith precedes life
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 6:53 (LEB) — 53 Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves!
You did not address the rebuttal to your view, but in the verse you quote you fail to consider the subject is obeying the law and assume man is always controlled by the flesh.
brightfame52
Well-known member
So are you, nothing changes. Those who are in the flesh cant please God so that validates life spiritual precedes faith, case closed
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Johann
Yes. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Everyone without the Spirit, which would be the unregenerate are in the flesh. Rom 8:9 tells us w/o the spirit you are in the flesh
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Yes. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Everyone without the Spirit, which would be the unregenerate are in the flesh. Rom 8:9 tells us w/o the spirit you are in the flesh
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Johann
A Christian has the Spirit, and the flesh, so technically by having the Spirit he is not in the flesh Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Those Corinthian believers, though they acted carnally, nevertheless they had the Spirit, Paul mentioned that of them 1 Cor 6:19
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
So your argument doesnt help you with Rom 8:8 at all, those who are in the flesh dont have the Spirit dwelling in them like believers do
A Christian has the Spirit, and the flesh, so technically by having the Spirit he is not in the flesh Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Those Corinthian believers, though they acted carnally, nevertheless they had the Spirit, Paul mentioned that of them 1 Cor 6:19
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
So your argument doesnt help you with Rom 8:8 at all, those who are in the flesh dont have the Spirit dwelling in them like believers do
MTMattie
Well-known member
I have the Spirit. I am not in the flesh. So much of what I write is by the Holy Spirit... How about you?
So tell us.... is this a 666 kind of thing that those who have the mark on their foreheads or in their right hand have it so all know to avoid them?
How are we to know you have the Spirit?
How about your testimony of how the Spirit came to live in you. And I certainly hope you say good night and thank you to him when you go to bed every night.... JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT BIBLICAL DOES NOT WAIVE GOOD MANNERS.
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Johann
Well-known member
You have lost this debate @brightfame52
Here, let me help you, fact sheet of all Calvinist verses.
Calvinism Fact Sheet | Monergism
by Joel BarnesBelow are explanations of TULIP (an acronym representing Calvinism’s main tenets) followed by supporting biblical texts. Remember that not all
www.monergism.com
J.
This is how people can start to believe in Jesus, with no mention of regeneration happening yet, according to Scripture:
(Rom 10:8-13)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
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Johann
Well-known member
Thanks for that!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Well Paul wrote Rom 8:8
brightfame52
Well-known member
No its not
brightfame52
Well-known member
Sorry, scripture shows otherwise
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Belief then life
God hardened men to prevent their believing
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
the unregenerate are seen to believe here
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
these could have believed if they had not grown hardened (waxed gross)
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
