Faith precedes life !

brightfame52 said:
No it's right. Never heard of in scripture
Click to expand...
Sorry the fact that you need to believe to be saved makes it a condition.

The shipwreck or failure of ones faith shows it was not a faith irresistibly given by God

1 Timothy 1:19–20 (LEB) — 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some, because they have rejected these, have suffered shipwreck concerning their faith, 20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, in order that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

Luke 22:31–32 (LEB) — 31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded to sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail. And you, when once you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

James 1:2–4 Consider it all joy, my brothers, whenever you encounter various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking in nothing.

1 Peter 1:6–7 (LEB) — 6 in which you rejoice greatly, although now for a short time, if necessary, you are distressed by various trials, 7 so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

1 Timothy 4:1 (LEB) — 1 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

Mark 4:16–17And these are like the ones sown on the rocky ground, who whenever they hear the word immediately receive it with joy. And they have no root in themselves, but are temporary. Then when affliction or persecution comes because of the word, immediately they fall away.

Colossians 1:23 (LEB) — 23 if indeed you remain in the faith, established and steadfast and not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Rev 2:10Do not be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison so that you may be tested, and you will experience affliction ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life
 
brightfame52 said:
Not one scripture teaches that Faith or believing is the condition for salvation , in fact one cannot believe or have faith until they are saved by the work of the Spirit .
Click to expand...
Many do as any honest interpretation shows

Those who do not believe do not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
brightfame52 said:
Not one, unfortunately you have been deceived my friend. It's all of Grace unmerited condition on Christ alone.
Click to expand...
The fact you ignore all the verses shows it is you who are the deceived one

Those who do not believe do not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
brightfame52 said:
There's not one scripture in the entire Bible that conditions salvation on believing, that is works
Click to expand...
You have a serious reading issue, as many verses show men are justified—declared righteous and saved through faith.

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Peter 1:3–5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Rom 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

1 Cor 15:1–2

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Rom 5:1

Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
 
brightfame52 said:
Believing is conditioned on regeneration
Click to expand...
You have a serious reading issue, as many verses show men are justified—declared righteous and saved through faith.

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Peter 1:3–5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Rom 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

1 Cor 15:1–2

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Rom 5:1

Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

and those who do not believe cannot have life


Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 
brightfame52 said:
No I dont and Im familiar with the verses you show, Im in agreement with them
Click to expand...
If you were you, would put faith before life

For the following was in the post

Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

but you probably did not even read
 
brightfame52 said:
Those verses are saying what I'm saying
Click to expand...
Hardly

As you hold, God makes men alive so that they may believe.

Scripture holds unbelievers are not made alive.

Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 
It seems clear the act of faith did not exist prior to physical birth since man, the one exercising faith, did not exist prior to his conception; consequently, faith’s existence, or man’s exercise of faith, was absolutely impossible prior to the first birth.

This is not the case with the second birth, where man and the possibility of faith do exist, which is not only self-evident but is also evidenced by the repeated scriptural calls for man to exercise that faith.

Contrastingly, one never finds a call for the the preborn human to exercise faith or do anything for that matter.

Once again Calvinists have the cart before the horse.

cart.jpg
 
brightfame52 said:
Every verse that you post agrees with me
Click to expand...
Not if you can read

Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 
Christina said:
It seems clear the act of faith did not exist prior to physical birth since man, the one exercising faith, did not exist prior to his conception; consequently, faith’s existence, or man’s exercise of faith, was absolutely impossible prior to the first birth.
Click to expand...
And it was impossible prior to the second birth, because man had no spiritual life and existence before second birth
 
brightfame52 said:
And it was impossible prior to the second birth, because man had no spiritual life and existence before second birth
Click to expand...
You continue ignoring the scriptures


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 

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