Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Jim]

OT Saints who "believed the Word of God" were born-again by the Spirit thru the circumcision of the heart

Where do you read that the OT saints received the circumcision of the heart?

Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching

Sorry @DavidTree, but that does not make your case. All that says is that Abraham, Issac and Jacob are living.

 

[DavidTree]

Where do you read that the OT saints received the circumcision of the heart?

Sorry @DavidTree, but that does not make your case. All that says is that Abraham, Issac and Jacob are living.

God offered circucision of the heart from the very beginning and HE Spoke it to Moses and Jeremiah, David, Isaiah and i believe Ezekiel as well.

How is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "Living" if they were not born-again?

 

[Jim]

God offered circucision of the heart from the very beginning and HE Spoke it to Moses and Jeremiah, David, Isaiah and i believe Ezekiel as well.

Could you give me the reference for that?

How is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "Living" if they were not born-again?

I think you are extrapolating spiritually dead beyond what it actually means. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, was the rich man alive when he appealed to Abraham? Was he born again?

 

[DavidTree]

Could you give me the reference for that?

I think you are extrapolating spiritually dead beyond what it actually means. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, was the rich man alive when he appealed to Abraham? Was he born again?

ty = for the rich man/Lazarus

Hell/Agony in Fire is Death = the Death that sin brought upon every man = Genesis chapter 3 = the rich man was NOT regenerated/born-again, therefore Death was appointed to him

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. - Deut 30:6

 

[brightfame52]

The Shepherd is in heaven.

The Shepherd works through his disciples.

The lost sheep must repent and return or remain lost as a sinner or tax collector.


Mathew’s version;


Jesus gives the step by step instructions to His disciples on how to go about compelling lost sheep repent and return.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:12-17


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.


But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.


Each person who becomes lost must choose to hear, (listen and obey) and return to God, or remain lost as a heathen and tax collector.

You dont pay attention. What did the lost coin do ? Nothing, it laid there lost, it had to be found and rescued. Lk 15:8-10

8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

The repentance is the effect of the woman finding the lost coin. The coin didn't obey anything, its passive in the being found. The Credit goes to the seeking woman, you understand ?

BTW thats the work of the Holy Spirit, seeking out Gods redeemed elect and granting them repentance.

The entire Lk 15 Parable is about Each Person of the Godhead Trinity doing their part in the Salvation of the sinner who fell in Adam.

 

[synergy]

ty = for the rich man/Lazarus

Hell/Agony in Fire is Death = the Death that sin brought upon every man = Genesis chapter 3 = the rich man was NOT regenerated/born-again, therefore Death was appointed to him

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. - Deut 30:6

Another prophesy for the future generations of OT Saints.

Question: at what point were the OT Saints regenerated?

 

[DavidTree]

Another prophesy for the future generations of OT Saints.

Question: at what point were the OT Saints regenerated?

God's direct words to Moses and the People HE Called out of the world is NOT a prophesy

This is God's Promise to all who believe His Word = Genesis to Revelation

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. - Deut 30:6

 

[synergy]

God's direct words to Moses and the People HE Called out of the world is NOT a prophesy

This is God's Promise to all who believe His Word = Genesis to Revelation

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. - Deut 30:6

He will but when? When will regeneration actually occur for OT Saints?

 

[brightfame52]

That was a prophesy for OT Saints, not enacted during Abraham's, Isaiah's, or David's time. So how does that fact affect the salvation or regeneration of OT Saints?

That was a prophecy for the Church, based on Christs Death of the New Covenant.

 

[synergy]

That was a prophecy for the Church, based on Christs Death of the New Covenant.

Therefore, there was no regeneration in OT times.

 

[DavidTree]

He will but when? When will regeneration actually occur for OT Saints?

the Regeneration of the Holy Spirit Began in Genesis and continues right thru to Revelation and the Second Coming of Christ

Every OT Saint that BELIEVED the WORD that was GOD received the circumcision of the heart unto regeneration.

JESUS Said to Nick/Jewish Rabbi = "You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?

 

[brightfame52]

Therefore, there was no regeneration in OT times.

Sure it was !

 

[Jim]

ty = for the rich man/Lazarus

Hell/Agony in Fire is Death = the Death that sin brought upon every man = Genesis chapter 3 = the rich man was NOT regenerated/born-again, therefore Death was appointed to him

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. - Deut 30:6

That is a prophecy which I believe was and is fulfilled in the New Covenant (Compare this with Jerimiah 31:31-40; 32:36-42).

 

[DavidTree]

That is a prophecy which I believe was and is fulfilled in the New Covenant (Compare this with Jerimiah 31:31-40; 32:36-42).

Not a prophesy but a Promise to all who BELIEVED the WORD that was GOD

JESUS Says that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are LIVING
This also applies to everyone who received regeneration from God when they believed His WORD

"Abraham believed the Word/God and it was credited to him as Righteousness"

JESUS Says: these words I speak to to you, they are Spirit and they are LIFE

 

[DavidTree]

Therefore, there was no regeneration in OT times.

"Abraham believed the Word/God and it was credited to him as Righteousness"

JESUS Says: these words I speak to to you, they are Spirit and they are LIFE

Therefore God granted regeneration beginning in Genesis to those of Faith in His Word

 

[brightfame52]

Not a prophesy but a Promise to all who BELIEVED the WORD that was GOD

JESUS Says that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are LIVING
This also applies to everyone who received regeneration from God when they believed His WORD

"Abraham believed the Word/God and it was credited to him as Righteousness"

JESUS Says: these words I speak to to you, they are Spirit and they are LIFE

The New Covenant Promises are specifically for the seed of Abraham, a spiritual seed through Christ Gal 3:16 and it applies to all who belong to Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So them who were chosen in Christ Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him[Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

They are the seed of Abraham, and all the New Covenant promises and blessings Jer 31:31-40; 32:36-42 belong to them

 

[DavidTree]

The New Covenant Promises are specifically for the seed of Abraham, a spiritual seed through Christ Gal 3:16 and it applies to all who belong to Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So them who were chosen in Christ Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him[Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

They are the seed of Abraham, and all the New Covenant promises and blessings Jer 31:31-40; 32:36-42 belong to them

Therefore, Abraham and all who believed the Word that was God was regenerated to LIFE thru the WORD

@synergy

 

[brightfame52]

Therefore, Abraham and all who believed the Word that was God was regenerated to LIFE thru the WORD

@synergy

Yeah, all believers in the OT who had Faith, were regenerated, faith is and has always been a fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22 If a person isnt regenerated, born of the Spirit, they are in the flesh period ! Now did not Enoch please God Heb 11:5

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

If he was in the flesh, unregenerate, this would have applied to him Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[DavidTree]

Yeah, all believers in the OT who had Faith, were regenerated, faith is and has always been a fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22 If a person isnt regenerated, born of the Spirit, they are in the flesh period ! Now did not Enoch please God Heb 11:5

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

If he was in the flesh, unregenerate, this would have applied to him Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

BEAUTIFUL

 

[brightfame52]

Where do you read that the OT saints received the circumcision of the heart?

Sorry @DavidTree, but that does not make your case. All that says is that Abraham, Issac and Jacob are living.

It says more than that, It says God is the God of the Living, spiritually living, see Abraham, Issac and Jacob were physically dead, but they were still living spiritually with God in paradise. So the ones who are not spiritually living, He is not their God, except for their Creator, but not as the God of their Salvation, He had no saving interest for them, no love for them Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You think these had God as a Covenant God ? Christ as a Covenant Mediator ? NO Matt 8:22


But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Is He their God ?