Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[GodsGrace]

I am with family in Florida so will not be around much, so no I did not run from anyone

I did hear an interesting teaching in genesis on the way down (a 13 hour trip)

I knew the Cain story and how we are introduced to human Goodtrying to come to God by our works.

But never thought of the Adam And Eve story

Immediately after they sinned. What did they do?

1 they hid
2 the tried to cover themselves with fig leaves
3. They eventually when confronted tried to blame others and not take credit for their own sin

What was God”s reaction?
God gave the gospel
1. To man he said the earth which served you will now curse you and in the end it will devour you (to dust you will return) you will
Leave with nothing. All your hard work. All you gained. You can take nothing.
2 to Satan. He will be destroyed. The woman’s seed will come and Satan will bruise his heal but her son will destroy him
3 as for the major problem now introduced which separated mankind from his God
A. Fig leaves will not work. Man is naked in front of God and his attempt to cover that failed. God showed how man can be covered so his nakedness (sin) is hidden or covered
B an innocent animal had to be killed
C God would use that innocent animals shed blood and skin to cover man’s nakedness (God had to cover us)
D man had to first come to God naked with nothing. And God would cloth them. Or they could be ok in their own fig leaves and reject Gods provisuon
4 we know Adam and Eve repented and Gid covered them
5 we know God had this figurative message if how the woman’s seed would save them. And come to Cain and abel
6 Abel Offered the best of his flock. A huge sacrifice. Cain offered human Gods his works his fig leaves which God rejected

We also see cans reaction. Which is the same as the Jews reaction to Jesus. (Can killed Abel the Jews had Christ killed)

We see the same reaction today which is sad

@Jim @synergy @GodsGrace @mailmandan @civic i hope you read and was as blessed as I was

Thanks EG.
But the story of Adam and Eve is one of my favorite and I hate to sound proudful,
but I've known all of the above for decades.

What does it have to do with obeying God?

You know How to GET TO GOD....
But a person also needs to know HOW TO STAY with §God.


As to your number 6 above....
we do not know WHY Cain's sacrifice was rejected.
We're told in Hebrews 11 that Able's sacrifice was through FAITH, and so was
a better sacrifice. But this is not clearly stated in Genesis 4:3-4

However, let's read on to:
Genesis 4:5-7
5 but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?
7 "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."


From the very beginning God demanded obedience.
I give you Adam, who did not obey.

God asked Cain why he was so angry ....
God told Cain TO DO WELL,,,to do the right thing.
But he did not....he did the wrong thing...
sin was crouching at the door and Cain let it in by not obeying God.

God always wants us to do the right thing.
This could also be called a good work...DOING the right thing.
Obeying God.

God made the Edenic Covenant with Adam.
Adam did not keep his part of the covenant.
He did not OBEY God.

 

[civic]

So you dont believe that ? It’s clear as the noon day sun to me. Your Salvation is Possessive, it’s yours when you hear about it.

Lots of things you see that no one else sees

 

[civic]

I am with family in Florida so will not be around much, so no I did not run from anyone

I did hear an interesting teaching in genesis on the way down (a 13 hour trip)

I knew the Cain story and how we are introduced to human Goodtrying to come to God by our works.

But never thought of the Adam And Eve story

Immediately after they sinned. What did they do?

1 they hid
2 the tried to cover themselves with fig leaves
3. They eventually when confronted tried to blame others and not take credit for their own sin

What was God”s reaction?
God gave the gospel
1. To man he said the earth which served you will now curse you and in the end it will devour you (to dust you will return) you will
Leave with nothing. All your hard work. All you gained. You can take nothing.
2 to Satan. He will be destroyed. The woman’s seed will come and Satan will bruise his heal but her son will destroy him
3 as for the major problem now introduced which separated mankind from his God
A. Fig leaves will not work. Man is naked in front of God and his attempt to cover that failed. God showed how man can be covered so his nakedness (sin) is hidden or covered
B an innocent animal had to be killed
C God would use that innocent animals shed blood and skin to cover man’s nakedness (God had to cover us)
D man had to first come to God naked with nothing. And God would cloth them. Or they could be ok in their own fig leaves and reject Gods provisuon
4 we know Adam and Eve repented and Gid covered them
5 we know God had this figurative message if how the woman’s seed would save them. And come to Cain and abel
6 Abel Offered the best of his flock. A huge sacrifice. Cain offered human Gods his works his fig leaves which God rejected

We also see cans reaction. Which is the same as the Jews reaction to Jesus. (Can killed Abel the Jews had Christ killed)

We see the same reaction today which is sad

@Jim @synergy @GodsGrace @mailmandan @civic i hope you read and was as blessed as I was

Enjoy your time !!!

 

[brightfame52]

God doesn't set His seal upon the unregenerated.

Who said that ? Rabbit trail. A saved person is regenerated, why else would scripture say the Gospel of YOUR Salvation. One cant be in possession of salvation and be lost and unregenerated, duh

 

[brightfame52]

@Jim

Yes, of course. But @brightfame52 is saying that Ephesians 1:13 says that one is not regenerated when one hears and believes,

False accusation, if one possesses salvation, that presupposes they are regenerated, regeneration saved the person spiritually Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[brightfame52]

Lots of things you see that no one else sees

And thats the Truth

 

[JLB]

@Jim



False accusation, if one possesses salvation, that presupposes they are regenerated, regeneration saved the person spiritually Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

No one is born again until they hear and believe the Gospel message of salvation.

 

[civic]

And thats the Truth

Thanks for affirming I have the truth. Amen

 

[brightfame52]

No one is born again until they hear and believe the Gospel message of salvation.

No one can hear the Gospel of their Salvation until they possess salvation, are saved, regenerated. I

 

[brightfame52]

Thanks for affirming I have the truth. Amen

I didnt say that, you hearing and seeing things

 

[JLB]

No one can hear the Gospel of their Salvation until they possess salvation, are saved, regenerated. I

When do they become regenerated?

 

[Jim]

@Jim



False accusation, if one possesses salvation, that presupposes they are regenerated, regeneration saved the person spiritually Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

First of all, it is widely accepted that the washing of regeneration is a reference to Christian baptism which itself is widely accepted is for the forgiveness of sin. Second, whether or not one accepts either of those, it really has little to do in interpreting the meaning of Ephesians 1:13.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit, can only mean the same as the regeneration, being born again, of water and Spirit. There really is no other rational explanation. And this verse plainly says that occurred having heard the truth and believed in him, namely, Jesus Christ. And that, in contrast to the spurious and deceitful soteriology of Calvin/Reformed Theology.

 

[brightfame52]

When do they become regenerated?

Before one is made alive spiritually, or quickened, they be dead in sin and cant hear spiritually. They may here naturally, but they cannot hear spiritually and understand spiritually because dead in sin spiritually. Jesus speaking to spiritually dead sinners Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
And a person is regenerated whenever it pleases God to do so, ts a mystery Jn 3 6-8

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Gal 1:15-16

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

 

[brightfame52]

First of all, it is widely accepted that the washing of regeneration is a reference to Christian baptism which itself is widely accepted is for the forgiveness of sin. Second, whether or not one accepts either of those, it really has little to do in interpreting the meaning of Ephesians 1:13.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit, can only mean the same as the regeneration, being born again, of water and Spirit. There really is no other rational explanation. And this verse plainly says that occurred having heard the truth and believed in him, namely, Jesus Christ. And that, in contrast to the spurious and deceitful soteriology of Calvin/Reformed Theology.

It might be accepted by you, im not here giving your views

 

[MTMattie]

No one can hear the Gospel of their Salvation until they possess salvation, are saved, regenerated. I

I heard the Gospel of my Salvation long before I received. Period.

 

[civic]

I heard the Gospel of my Salvation long before I received. Period.

That is how it happens for everyone.

 

[Red Baker]

@MTMattie

I heard the Gospel of my Salvation long before I received. Period.

Nora, this is a classic example of circular reasoning ~ it does not prove the end results of WHY you believe. If any believes, it is because they were first quickened to life, regardless if they have never heard the gospel, or if they have heard the gospel many times over, and never received it as the truth.

 

[Red Baker]

@JLB

No one is born again until they hear and believe the Gospel message of salvation.

This is wrong. Regeneration is a work of God's Spirit alone, creating a new man within us, so that we can believe, obey, and follow the truth. The power to believe comes from the new man, not the flesh, that's impossible.

When do they become regenerated?

That is an unanswerable question, based on lack of true knowledge the new birth as taught in the word of God ~ even though you may be very sincere in asking, that I question, do not doubt. The time of when a person is born again from conception and before the death of our bodies is determined by God alone. John the Baptist and the thief on the cross are two perfect examples.

 

[Dizerner]

OSAS is just "Calvinism after conversion."

Half-Irresistible grace.

 

[Jim]

It might be accepted by you, im not here giving your views

I should be expected since my view is correct about Ephesians 1:13, unlike your determinist view.