Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Eternally-Grateful]

Do you deny that God graced us with free will?

show me one post where I have denied we have free will to chose to receive his gift in grace or reject his gift in unbelief.

the fact you even ask this question PROVES you have not heard a word I have said. and PROVES you are not understanding because you see only what you want to see. not what is actually being said

My statements are certainly trying to twist your erroneous presuppositions into the right direction.

yet you can not do anything to resolve the conflict that YOU create with your belief system, you give me no purpose or reason to even consider what you say is true

Now you’re resorting to baseless Ad Hominems because you’ve been nailed for barking against practices that were given up 2000 years ago.

Can you focus on the word of God without the Ad Hominems? Is that too much to ask of you?

Good God man, what a joke.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Paul means works of the Law, and by that, meritorious works, or actions attempting to contribute virtue and worth.

Paul certainly believed our faith meant we have to actually do things, not give one moment of mental assent.

And this is why the Holy Spirit inspired James (really Jacob) to balance Paul out.

No

Paul does not mean works of the law

In romans 4. he spoke of abrahams works.. there was no law in abrahams day

in titus 3. He spoke of works of righteousness, or any good deed. which is any work, not just works of the law

in eph 2, the law is not in context. and paul is speaking to a gentile church in ephesus who has never been under law

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I’m not angry at anyone. That’s you projecting your anger to others.

I am not angry

I am just busy exposing people who reject the cross and try to replace it with their good works

 

[synergy]

yet works of the law are good works.
Obedience to any Command God has ever given is good works..

"Obedience to any Command God has ever given" (the Repent and Believe command that produces salvation in you) "is good works". Excellent!!!
You're beginning to see the light.

The bible does agree with itself if interpreted properly.
its why the bible can be trusted. and why we can use it to determine if someone is saying something, if it comes from God or not
Like you?
yes. and you have been exposed as doing that very thing this morning
so read these words to yourself and take your own advise.

How do you reconcile these 2 diametrically opposed incoherent statements of yours:

Your bible can not agree with itself

The bible does agree with itself.

 

[brightfame52]

the person is not regenerated until after they recieve it in faith

he who does not believe is condemned already

you can not be regenerated while in a condemned state

regeneration is the result of having condemnation removed

and as jesus said, this happens when we recieve him, when we believe and trust him..

That's why you are promoting salvation by your work of the flesh. If a person is not regenerate they are in the flesh.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God's trustworthiness does not somehow force no one to sin.

What kind of ridiculous logic is this even? (hint: it's monergism)

Can you not take one step back and see the extreme absurdities your position has cornered you into?

Let God be true, and EVERY MAN a liar.

How dare you even begin to insinuate that all our failures towards God are somehow HIS fault.

lol.. another religious zealot who uses religious terms, who can not hear what anyone says, because he is arguing religion not the word

and people wonder why the world looks at christians and want nothing to do with us.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

"Obedience to any Command God has ever given" (the Repent and Believe command that produces salvation in you) "is good works". Excellent!!!

I Can not earn salvation because i repent and trust the work of god on the cross> and his promise to save me

You're beginning to see the light.

I saw the light 50 years ago my friend. thats when I was born again.

God has been growing me since

How do you reconcile these 2 diametrically opposed statements of yours:

You first

resolve the contradictions in the cverses you post and the verses I keep giving you which you totally ignore..

cant you guys see anyone who comes in here sees me respond to every verse you give, but every time I give my list of verses. not one person responds.

who do you think you are fooling? certainly not me..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That's why you are promoting salvation by your work of the flesh. If a person is not regenerate they are in the flesh.

HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IS CONDEMNED ALREADY

Why do you insist a person who has not repented and recieved Gods gift of life is already alive.

Your not helping yourself or those who called you into the room

 

[civic]

Brother

Will you please listen

I NEVER SAID IT WAS GOD'S FAITH

I said GOD HELPED US IN HIS WORK TO BRING US TO TRUST HIM Istop trusting self. or repent from unbelief to faith).

why is it people seem so hard to understand?

I love you bro. But you appear to be looking at me from an anticalvinist calvinist lens and not hearing what I am saying.

If you are saying Gods grace precedes man’s faith then I’m in agreement. But God does not cause our faith otherwise He would be showing favoritism with some over others. Gods grace is universal not willing for anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance. God does not interfere with man’s volition/ will.

Jesus said if any man is willing , let him come.

 

[synergy]

Your right. But a true believer does them out of love, not expecting anything in return.. But God reward them anyway
Yes he does
Those who HAVE ETERNAL LIFE WILL do good works.
if we trust God with our eternity. I think we will trust God with some things here on earth. don't you?
yes.. Descriptive not prescriptive

Actually it is you who can't see the difference between any work of merit and works of love

You're beginning to see that good works are not works of the Law. There's some hope for you yet to see what Paul is talking about when he says that it's works of the Law that is opposed to Grace.

dude, you are so far out there you can not even read properly. You read what I say like you read the word of God. you read what you want to dee.
let me try one more time.
YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THER WORD causes the bible to contradict itself.
now. can youi understand, or do I have to speak slower or S P E L L I T O U T so you can understand?

Tell us how these 2 statements are not incoherent:

Your bible can not agree with itself

The bible does agree with itself.

the verses you posted in no way refute anything i have said. but in fact cause paul and james to appose each other.
Are you anti-pauline as many others are?

These are your very words: "the verses you posted .... cause Paul and James to appose each other".
You are in fact taking issue with Bible verses that I posted and that they are the ones that are causing Paul and James to oppose each other. Now you're into your anti-Bible mindframe.
Tell us how you would rewrite the Bible verses so that they do not "cause paul and james to appose each other" in your mind.
You have done that with James 2:14b so it won't be the first time you attempted such a thing.

 

[Dizerner]

If one moment of faith is not a work of merit—

Then neither is two moments of faith.

If two moments of faith are not a work of merit—

Neither is any amount of moments.

 

[brightfame52]

HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IS CONDEMNED ALREADY

Why do you insist a person who has not repented and recieved Gods gift of life is already alive.

Your not helping yourself or those who called you into the room

Any way you spin it, you are teaching salvation by the works of the flesh, In essence you are also by implication you teach the removal of condemnation by a work of the flesh. I believe Christs death removed condemnation.

 

[Dizerner]

Any way you spin it, you are teaching salvation by the works of the flesh, In essence you are also by implication you teach the removal of condemnation by a work of the flesh. I believe Christs death removed condemnation.

Sounds like you believe in more grace than he does to be honest.

 

[Blessed]

That is not true. Demons do believe that God exists, but they do not place their confidence and trust in God. Thus thet believe that God exists but they do not believe in God, i.e., they do not have faith in God. That was a major message of James.

If they only believe that God exists why do they tremble?

 

[GodsGrace]

what does believ have to do with romans 11

romans 11 is about the question "is God done with Israel?

I do not have to do any of this

a work is a work is a work

it does not matter if it is a work of the law. or a work of obedience to any of the hundreds of other commands God gave us

itf we obey to merit something.. it is a work of merit

if we obey out of love, and expect nothing in return (like christ did) then it is a work of love

You tell me I misquote you when I respond to a specific sentence or statement.

So I'm leaving the above, but would like to highlight what you said:

I do not have to do any of this

a work is a work is a work

it does not matter if it is a work of the law. or a work of obedience to any of the hundreds of other commands God gave us


You could go ahead and add the rest of what you wrote.
It' IRRELEVANT....
What you've stated above is not what Jesus taught or any of the NT writers.

If we do not obey Jesus...He is not our Lord.

Not those who cry LORD, LORD....
but those who DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

We MUST do the will of the Father...
AFTER salvation.

God has always demanded obedience....
no obedience....
no salvation.....

Doesn't matter how much you believe Jesus died for you...
if you DISOBEY His commands...
You are NOT doing the will of the Father.

The wise man DOES what he heard Jesus say.
Be not only HEARERS of the word
but DOERS of the word.

 

[GodsGrace]

Any way you spin it, you are teaching salvation by the works of the flesh, In essence you are also by implication you teach the removal of condemnation by a work of the flesh. I believe Christs death removed condemnation.

Christ's death removes condemnation if you OBEY His commands...
Otherwise you're worse off than before.

John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
That sounds like a born again person, that loves Jesus, has TO DO something....

YOU call it works salvation...

JESUS calls it bearing fruit:

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Every branch IN JESUS (a saved person) that does NOT BEAR FRUIT....
will be CUT AWAY.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If you are saying Gods grace precedes man’s faith then I’m in agreement.

I am saying it is Gods works based on his grace and all the work he does in our lives to bring us to the point we must make a decision.

A. Trust God and be saved
B. Continue to reject God and remain unsaved

But God does not cause our faith otherwise He would be showing favoritism with some over others.

I never said he caused out faith. I am not sure why you would even think this

Gods grace is universal not willing for anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance. God does not interfere with man’s volition/ will.

Yes

Jesus said if any man is willing , let him come.

Yes
But man still has to have something to believe in, and he still must be taught to understand what it is

this is the work of God

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You're beginning to see that good works are not works of the Law.

dude I am done with you. I never said in any time that works were works of the law. that has been you

when your ready to humble yourself and actually listen to what I have to say. and not continually see only what you want to see. Come talk to me. I would love to converse with you

until then. I see no reason to continue

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You tell me I misquote you when I respond to a specific sentence or statement.

So I'm leaving the above, but would like to highlight what you said:

I do not have to do any of this

a work is a work is a work

it does not matter if it is a work of the law. or a work of obedience to any of the hundreds of other commands God gave us


You could go ahead and add the rest of what you wrote.
It' IRRELEVANT....
What you've stated above is not what Jesus taught or any of the NT writers.

yet they did

If we do not obey Jesus...He is not our Lord.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT NOT WANTING TO OBEY

I am DONE.. YOU refuse to listen,,

go earn your salvation, feel free.. But know I will not allow you to lead others astray

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Any way you spin it, you are teaching salvation by the works of the flesh,

No I am teaching salvation by the work of God

In essence you are also by implication you teach the removal of condemnation by a work of the flesh. I believe Christs death removed condemnation.

I just teach what God said

HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IS CONDEMNED ALREADY

HE WHO BELIEVES IS NOT CONDEMNED.

you have people not condemned while still in a state of unbelief

good luck with that