Don't Study The Grace Message!

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

"You heard me! Don’t study dispensationalism, study the Bible dispensationally. Rightly
Dividing the Word is the key to understanding the Bible, but what do you do with a key?
You don’t study it. Once you know how it works, you use it to unlock the lock for which it
was designed. Well, once you understand the principle of Right Division,
use it to unlock the Scriptures it was designed to open to your understanding.
Hello @Grace ambassador,

Reading through your OP again, I thank you for it, for there is too much time spent on the various, 'isms', within the umbrella of 'Christianity', and too little regard to the word of God for it's own precious sake.

As you say, a 'Key' is intended to open a door, in order that you may enter it, and partake of the wonder of what lies within.
If you are a Grace pastor or teacher, don’t teach dispensationalism, “preach The Word” (2 Tim. 4:2)
dispensationally considered. Brother Les Feldick has done a tremendous job of reaching people
with the Truth of the Rightly Divided Word, grounding them in it, and helping them grow in it, all
by simply teaching through the Bible, verse by verse, “according to The Revelation of The Mystery”
(Rom. 16:25). The saints to whom you minister can flourish under the same type of ministry.

So whether you are a Grace believer or even a Grace pastor, don’t study the Grace Message. If that’s
all you do, you will never be able to answer the challenges our opponents raise to the Truth. But the
man of God who has studied every verse they cite in its context will be thoroughly equipped to
“fight the good fight of faith” (1 Tim. 6:12), “war a good warfare” (1 Tim. 1:18), and “please Him Who
hath chosen him to be a soldier” (2 Tim. 2:4)"
(R Kurth Two Minutes)

Amen.
Amen.

To know Christ, and to make Him known.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
 
Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

"You heard me! Don’t study dispensationalism, study the Bible dispensationally. Rightly
Dividing the Word is the key to understanding the Bible, but what do you do with a key?
You don’t study it. Once you know how it works, you use it to unlock the lock for which it
was designed. Well, once you understand the principle of Right Division,
use it to unlock the Scriptures it was designed to open to your understanding.

If you are a Grace pastor or teacher, don’t teach dispensationalism, “preach The Word” (2 Tim. 4:2)
dispensationally considered. Brother Les Feldick has done a tremendous job of reaching people
with the Truth of the Rightly Divided Word, grounding them in it, and helping them grow in it, all
by simply teaching through the Bible, verse by verse, “according to The Revelation of The Mystery
(Rom. 16:25).
Ephesians 1:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
 
And?

What is your point relative to the tribulation in 70 A.d. and the fact elect are in it?
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

I am assuming you are a Calvinist and you are an amillennialist. As such you think the scriptures are speaking about you whenever they mention the word elect. Jacob was a patriarch, a father of Israel, the family of God. His name was changed to Israel at his conversion which means prince with God. This family were all generated through Jacob/Israel by a physical birth. They are not called individually children of God or sons of God but collectively when they were born as a nation in Egypt at the first Passover Israel is called the son of God, his firstborn. You do not need to take my word for this, I will quote God saying it. Take a look;

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Now God views Israel with his covenants as his firstborn son as a collective but this is for a picture and a figure and a type of his second birth of this nation. He must be "regenerated" and have a second birth to be saved and to realize the presence of God. This is what Judah refused through her rulers, the scribes and Pharisees, and is the reason the record of scriptures is careful to tell us that Jesus left the temple in Jerusalem two days before his crucifixion by his own countrymen. He came to give them life but they gave him death and the symbolism of his leaving the temple for the last time signified that this nation was dead, if one accepts the scriptural definition of death as being a separation or departure. (the last thing he said to the rulers in Matt 23 is that they will not see him again until they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord) With the resurrection of Jesus Christ after three days in the tomb God sent out his preachers with the life giving gospel to his people to give them a second opportunity with 40 years preparation to enter into his rest collectively as his son by believing his gospel, which is salvation. Forty years is the established number and time for probation. See Heb 3. It was forty years between the resurrection of Jesus Christ until their removal as a nation from the land. See below a prophecy. Remember the vineyard symbolizes the nation of Israel and the vine pictures the family of Judah. (Is 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry). Read Is 5 now.


Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
¶ He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree (ie nation), and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Probation, a second chance.

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

God will keep his covenants with Israel and at some point in the near future will save every one of them and they will be born again a son.

Speaking of blind and cast away Israel in 58 AD, Paul says this:

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

What did he means "provoke them that are my flesh?" Well he just said this;

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul said he was a Christian Jew, but a Jew nonetheless 30 years after his conversion. Then he said this about the timing when he will save Israel collectively.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The great tribulation is pictured as intense fire and is a purging of the dross and the purifying of Israel and few will be left alive when it is over.

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers (of Israel), A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people (of Israel).

The church is a separate entity from all the above and takes on a gentile character in the world from AD 70 when Israel lost her national identity and were disbursed into gentile lands and under gentile rule until 1948.
 
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

I am assuming you are a Calvinist and you are an amillennialist. As such you think the scriptures are speaking about you whenever they mention the word elect. Jacob was a patriarch, a father of Israel, the family of God. His name was changed to Israel at his conversion which means prince with God. This family were all generated through Jacob/Israel by a physical birth. They are not called individually children of God or sons of God but collectively when they were born as a nation in Egypt at the first Passover Israel is called the son of God, his firstborn. You do not need to take my word for this, I will quote God saying it. Take a look;

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Now God views Israel with his covenants as his firstborn son as a collective but this is for a picture and a figure and a type of his second birth of this nation. He must be "regenerated" and have a second birth to be saved and to realize the presence of God. This is what Judah refused through her rulers, the scribes and Pharisees, and is the reason the record of scriptures is careful to tell us that Jesus left the temple in Jerusalem two days before his crucifixion by his own countrymen. He came to give them life but they gave him death and the symbolism of his leaving the temple for the last time signified that this nation was dead, if one accepts the scriptural definition of death as being a separation or departure. (the last thing he said to the rulers in Matt 23 is that they will not see him again until they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord) With the resurrection of Jesus Christ after three days in the tomb God sent out his preachers with the life giving gospel to his people to give them a second opportunity with 40 years preparation to enter into his rest collectively as his son by believing his gospel, which is salvation. Forty years is the established number and time for probation. See Heb 3. It was forty years between the resurrection of Jesus Christ until their removal as a nation from the land. See below a prophecy. Remember the vineyard symbolizes the nation of Israel and the vine pictures the family of Judah. (Is 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry). Read Is 5 now.


Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
¶ He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree (ie nation), and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Probation, a second chance.

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

God will keep his covenants with Israel and at some point in the near future will save every one of them and they will be born again a son.

Speaking of blind and cast away Israel in 58 AD, Paul says this:

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

What did he means "provoke them that are my flesh?" Well he just said this;

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul said he was a Christian Jew, but a Jew nonetheless 30 years after his conversion. Then he said this about the timing when he will save Israel collectively.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The great tribulation is pictured as intense fire and is a purging of the dross and the purifying of Israel and few will be left alive when it is over.

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers (of Israel), A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people (of Israel).

The church is a separate entity from all the above and takes on a gentile character in the world from AD 70 when Israel lost her national identity and were disbursed into gentile lands and under gentile rule until 1948.
You are assuming incorrectly. I am not a Calvinist, You can call me an Amillenialist but my position is really that of a realized millenialist.

The great tribulation is seen here

Matthew 24:1–22 (NASB 2020) — 1 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” 3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains. 9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand—16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

It concerns Jerusalem and the temple and took place in 70 A.D.

There was no rapture. Historically Jewish Christian were told to escape to Pella and did
 
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.​
Isa 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.​
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.​

Jacob was a patriarch, a father of Israel, the family of God. His name was changed to Israel at his conversion which means prince with God. This family were all generated through Jacob/Israel by a physical birth. They are not called individually children of God or sons of God but collectively when they were born as a nation in Egypt at the first Passover Israel is called the son of God, his firstborn. You do not need to take my word for this, I will quote God saying it. Take a look;

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.​
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:​
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.​
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;​
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;​

Now God views Israel with his covenants as his firstborn son as a collective but this is for a picture and a figure and a type of his second birth of this nation. He must be "regenerated" and have a second birth to be saved and to realize the presence of God. This is what Judah refused through her rulers, the scribes and Pharisees, and is the reason the record of scriptures is careful to tell us that Jesus left the temple in Jerusalem two days before his crucifixion by his own countrymen. He came to give them life but they gave him death and the symbolism of his leaving the temple for the last time signified that this nation was dead, if one accepts the scriptural definition of death as being a separation or departure. (the last thing he said to the rulers in Matt 23 is that they will not see him again until they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord) With the resurrection of Jesus Christ after three days in the tomb God sent out his preachers with the life giving gospel to his people to give them a second opportunity with 40 years preparation to enter into his rest collectively as his son by believing his gospel, which is salvation. Forty years is the established number and time for probation. See Heb 3. It was forty years between the resurrection of Jesus Christ until their removal as a nation from the land. See below a prophecy. Remember the vineyard symbolizes the nation of Israel and the vine pictures the family of Judah. (Is 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry). Read Is 5 now.

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.​
He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.​
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree (ie nation), and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?​

Probation, a second chance.

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:​
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.​
10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.​

God will keep his covenants with Israel and at some point in the near future will save every one of them and they will be born again a son.

Speaking of blind and cast away Israel in 58 AD, Paul says this:

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.​
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?​
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:​
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.​
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?​

What did he mean "provoke them that are my flesh?" Well he just said this;

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.​

Paul said he was a Christian Jew, but a Jew nonetheless 30 years after his conversion. Then he said this about the timing when he will save Israel collectively.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:​
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.​

The great tribulation is pictured as intense fire and is a purging of the dross and the purifying of Israel and few will be left alive when it is over.

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.​
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.​
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.​
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;​
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:​
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.​
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers (of Israel), A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.​
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people (of Israel).​

The church is a separate entity from all the above and takes on a gentile character in the world from AD 70 when Israel lost her national identity and were disbursed into gentile lands and under gentile rule until 1948.
Hello JD731,

Thank you for this. Like Oliver Twist I ask for more. :)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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You are assuming incorrectly. I am not a Calvinist, You can call me an Amillenialist but my position is really that of a realized millenialist.

The great tribulation is seen here

Matthew 24:1–22 (NASB 2020) — 1 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” 3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains. 9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand—16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

It concerns Jerusalem and the temple and took place in 70 A.D.

There was no rapture. Historically Jewish Christian were told to escape to Pella and did

Roman Period
Pella was rebuilt again during the first centuries BC and AD, and in the late AD 60s it reportedly served as a refuge for Christians fleeing the Jewish-Roman turmoil in Jerusalem.


Benjamin M. Ioset, “Pella,” ed. John D. Barry et al., The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).
 
You are assuming incorrectly. I am not a Calvinist, You can call me an Amillenialist but my position is really that of a realized millenialist.

The great tribulation is seen here

Matthew 24:1–22 (NASB 2020) — 1 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” 3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains. 9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand—16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

It concerns Jerusalem and the temple and took place in 70 A.D.

There was no rapture. Historically Jewish Christian were told to escape to Pella and did

The beginning of a parable which is a prophecy.
Lk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
The end of the parable.

The suggested response to the prophecy.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

Do you believe this prophecy strong enough to do as Jesus said, pray that you will be worthy enough to escape the things he has cataloged? In verse 34 he speaks of "that day" which almost always means the "day of the Lord" that occupies so much of the warnings of the prophets.

Let me say first of all that your NASB does great damage to the typology of the temple doctrine in the scriptures by changing the actions of Jesus, who is God, from leaving the temple to leaving the grounds. It is my belief that some men will promote ignorance by such actions and oppose the truths of God and persuade others to oppose him as well.

For Jesus to not come back to the temple after rebuking the national leaders was highly significant.


Here is a truth you may not know. There are 89 chapters in the 4 gospel accounts of the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ in Israel. There are 28 chapters in Matthew, 16 chapters in Mark, 24 chapters in Luke and 21 chapters in John. 28 + 16 + 24 + 21 = 89 chapters total. Now the public ministry of Jesus Christ was 3 1/2 years but we have almost exactly 1/3 of the chapters devoted to the last seven days of his ministry to Israel and to a couple of events immediately after his resurrection from the dead on the day after the sabbath, or day 8. The number 8 is the number God uses in his scriptures of truth for new things. Things like a new covenant. a new creation in Christ, a new birth, a new man, etc, The number 9 is associated with fruit bearing and it is interesting what Jesus said about fruit bearing and to whom he said it. It was in John 12, the last chapter in John before he arrived in Jerusalem to die and rise again from the dead. Take a look;

Joh 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

This is an amazing response to these men, these gentiles. His death and being planted in the ground would mean life for these Greeks and the world but until then he could not bear any fruit among them. Therefore he did not respond to them at that time.

But back to the 89 chapters.

In Matthew, he came to Jerusalem in chapter 21 + 8 = 28
In Mark, in chapter 11 + 6 = 16
Luke, in chapter 19:28 = 6 = 24
John, in chapter 13 +9 = 21

8 +6 + 6 +9 = 29 chapters
29 / 89 = 32.5842%

All of these chapters above were written after the Jewish rulers had decided to kill Jesus Christ.

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

So Jesus Christ came to Jerusalem knowing that he would be put to death by his own countrymen, those he came to save. He was fulfilling his office as the perfect prophet and most of his parables that he spoke as he met with Israel in the temple from the first day of the week until the fifth day before he left for the final time was about a finality. His parables were about the end of the day, about supper time, about harvest time, about the refusal of those who had been previously bidden to the marriage refusing to come and a delay while the master sent out his servants to invite those in the hedges and highways so his house will be full and the marriage feast be filled with guests. We have the full prophecy of this present age in these parables of Jesus Christ and he has not spoken another word while he awaits the time of the feast.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There is a reckoning for both Jews and gentiles who would not respond to his invitation to come to his supper. It is death to all before his supper.

Lu 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

What is going to happen to them?

Lu 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.


.......

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day (the day of the Lord) shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

For one third of the ministry of Jesus Christ to be devoted to the last 8 days of his life should instruct us about how important they are. The remainder of the history in time is laid out in the parables of Jesus. A good deal if not most of his prophecies are in these chapters.

If one is interesting in the chronology of these days, they can be tracked day by day in the gospel of Mark.
 
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Hello JD731,

Thank you for this. Like Oliver Twist I ask for more. :)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Bless you and thank you. The Lord Jesus is deserving of all our praise and adoration and may he be worshipped from the depths of our hearts.

Here is a prayer for us that blesses me when I read it;

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling (which is the glorified body when he comes for us), and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world (aion = age), but also in that (aion = age) which is to come (after this age): (our hope will be realized at that time)
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

I say AMEN to that.
 
The beginning of a parable which is a prophecy.
Lk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
The end of the parable.

The suggested response to the prophecy.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

Do you believe this prophecy strong enough to do as Jesus said, pray that you will be worthy enough to escape the things he has cataloged? In verse 34 he speaks of "that day" which almost always means the "day of the Lord" that occupies so much of the warnings of the prophets.

Let me say first of all that your NASB does great damage to the typology of the temple doctrine in the scriptures by changing the actions of Jesus, who is God, from leaving the temple to leaving the grounds. It is my belief that some men will promote ignorance by such actions and oppose the truths of God and persuade others to oppose him as well.

For Jesus to not come back to the temple after rebuking the national leaders was highly significant.


Here is a truth you may not know. There are 89 chapters in the 4 gospel accounts of the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ in Israel. There are 28 chapters in Matthew, 16 chapters in Mark, 24 chapters in Luke and 21 chapters in John. 28 + 16 + 24 + 21 = 89 chapters total. Now the public ministry of Jesus Christ was 3 1/2 years but we have almost exactly 1/3 of the chapters devoted to the last seven days of his ministry to Israel and to a couple of events immediately after his resurrection from the dead on the day after the sabbath, or day 8. The number 8 is the number God uses in his scriptures of truth for new things. Things like a new covenant. a new creation in Christ, a new birth, a new man, etc, The number 9 is associated with fruit bearing and it is interesting what Jesus said about fruit bearing and to whom he said it. It was in John 12, the last chapter in John before he arrived in Jerusalem to die and rise again from the dead. Take a look;

Joh 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

This is an amazing response to these men, these gentiles. His death and being planted in the ground would mean life for these Greeks and the world but until then he could not bear any fruit among them. Therefore he did not respond to them at that time.

But back to the 89 chapters.

In Matthew, he came to Jerusalem in chapter 21 + 8 = 28
In Mark, in chapter 11 + 6 = 16
Luke, in chapter 19:28 = 6 = 24
John, in chapter 13 +9 = 21

8 +6 + 6 +9 = 29 chapters
29 / 89 = 32.5842%

All of these chapters above were written after the Jewish rulers had decided to kill Jesus Christ.

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

So Jesus Christ came to Jerusalem knowing that he would be put to death by his own countrymen, those he came to save. He was fulfilling his office as the perfect prophet and most of his parables that he spoke as he met with Israel in the temple from the first day of the week until the fifth day before he left for the final time was about a finality. His parables were about the end of the day, about supper time, about harvest time, about the refusal of those who had been previously bidden to the marriage refusing to come and a delay while the master sent out his servants to invite those in the hedges and highways so his house will be full and the marriage feast be filled with guests. We have the full prophecy of this present age in these parables of Jesus Christ and he has not spoken another word while he awaits the time of the feast.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There is a reckoning for both Jews and gentiles who would not respond to his invitation to come to his supper. It is death to all before his supper.

Lu 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

What is going to happen to them?

Lu 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.


.......

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day (the day of the Lord) shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

For one third of the ministry of Jesus Christ to be devoted to the last 8 days of his life should instruct us about how important they are. The remainder of the history in time is laid out in the parables of Jesus. A good deal if not most of his prophecies are in these chapters.

If one is interesting in the chronology of these days, they can be tracked day by day in the gospel of Mark.
????

There is nothing there supporting a pre trib rapture to or a future to us millennium at the return of Christ
 
Sorry, but your erroneous assumption required addressing

Don't assume
Well, if I am guilty of assuming you are guilty of presuming. I asked that question of grace ambassador and you presumed to answer for him. (unless of course you are grace ambassador).

Ps 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

But, my curiosity is satisfied. Back to the topic in my next post. Thank you.
 
Well, if I am guilty of assuming you are guilty of presuming. I asked that question of grace ambassador and you presumed to answer for him. (unless of course you are grace ambassador).

Ps 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

But, my curiosity is satisfied. Back to the topic in my next post. Thank you.
My presumption rather mis identification came about by Grace ambassador insertion of self into the discussion
 
????

There is nothing there supporting a pre trib rapture,,,,,
This is so true. There is nothing about the rapture of the church of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24, the chapter you have quoted more than once in this thread. You did it to refute the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on the earth over his people Israel and by extension, the nations of the world. As a matter of fact there is nothing in the gospel accounts of either of the 4 writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John where they mention the church of Jesus Christ. Our Lord Jesus hints at the future church in Matthew 16 when he says he will build it upon the Rock, speaking of himself and insinuating it was not something he was currently doing but something he will do in the future. As a matter of fact when he said that Peter presumptuously rebuked him sharply for saying it. I think you should read the scriptures using reason and logic and stop reading them just to prove your adopted doctrines.

Here is some reason and logic for you. We are told that the church is a mystery, the understanding of which requires divine revelation in the hearts of those whom the Spirit of God has birthed into his kingdom when they believed the the gospel of Christ. This gospel is defined in first Corinthians 15, written by the apostle Paul in AD 54. He says it is the gospel by which repentant sinners are saved and it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

You don't say that.

Now work with me here a minute. If the apostle Paul was the one whom God chose to reveal and teach the mysteries of the church, why would Jesus be talking about it in 30 AD when no one had a clue about it? Paul was not even saved until 37/38 AD which was after the national rulers rejected the salvation of Jesus Christ by rejecting God's gift of the Spirit, who is life. He is required for anyone to enter into the kingdom of God, see Jn 3:3; 7. So what did God do? He did what he said earlier that he would do. He sent his men out to the hedges and highways to those who had not been previously bidden and invited them to come and fill his house with guests. They did not know that the guests who entered in the house at the wedding supper would also become the bride.

There is nothing there supporting.... a future to us millennium at the return of Christ.
There are two types of ministries that are associated with this "present age." The first are the mysteries of the church. Paul is charged with making them known and explaining them to the gentile who had no previous relationship with God and needed to be told what is expected of them.

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers (of Israel):
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Of course he was speaking of the gentiles who were saved.

The second type of mysteries was given by Jesus Christ in the kingdom of heaven parables of which I think there are 12. Seven of them are in one chapter, Matthew 13, and the beginning is the sowing of the field with seeds. The field is the world Jesus said and is divided into 4 parts. The chapter ends with the reaping of the harvest and the separation of the tares and wheat which had been growing together. The tares had been previously bundled in different bundles by the angels for the purpose of burning them after the wheat was gathered into the barn. So these mysteries is a prophecy of this entire age that we are currently living in and it describes the age itself. So the age itself is God dealing with the world by his mercy and grace by providing atonement for the whole world in order to achieve his purpose of preparing a bride for his Son. This bride will share equally in the glories of his Son, God making it joint heirs with him.

The purpose of God in this age is glorious but the age itself is dangerous and deceptive and evil. I did not say that, God did.

Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (aion = age), according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Having said all that about the church of Jesus Christ, the focus of God in this present evil age, it remains that there is a rapture after the coming of Jesus Christ back to the earth from which he left, to rule and reign from Israel and over the nations of the earth. This is the focus of the perfect prophet Jesus Christ at the end of the age in which he died actually bringing that age to a close with his death. This coming is preceded by an angel sounding a trumpet but it is not the rapture of the church. That rapture was a mystery that was hidden and yet unrevealed at this time. Here is the language that is associated with this rapture.

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mt 24:30 And then (remember: at that time) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Note: You said they were coming from Pella, or some such place, but Jesus Christ said they are being raptured from one end of heaven to the other by the angels, plural. The rapture of the church had one accompanying angel, the archangel.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There is no mystery in these chapters in the gospels. All these things had been revealed by the prophets of Israel to Israel in OT times and had been discussed in their temple and synagogues for centuries. Those who the angels take after the great tribulation and after Christ comes back to the earth are the saved Jews among the unsaved Jews in the lands of the gentiles when God establishes his kingdom over a converted state of Israel, every one of them. They will all be taken back to the land of Israel where they will abide. The other Jews will be slain with the gentiles who are lost at the judgement of the nations in Matt 25. You should read it now.

This is all I have time for now but there is much to be said about these things. One thing is sure, these things did not happen in 70 AD like you claim.
 
This is so true. There is nothing about the rapture of the church of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24, the chapter you have quoted more than once in this thread. You did it to refute the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on the earth over his people Israel and by extension, the nations of the world. As a matter of fact there is nothing in the gospel accounts of either of the 4 writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John where they mention the church of Jesus Christ. Our Lord Jesus hints at the future church in Matthew 16 when he says he will build it upon the Rock, speaking of himself and insinuating it was not something he was currently doing but something he will do in the future. As a matter of fact when he said that Peter presumptuously rebuked him sharply for saying it. I think you should read the scriptures using reason and logic and stop reading them just to prove your adopted doctrines.

Here is some reason and logic for you. We are told that the church is a mystery, the understanding of which requires divine revelation in the hearts of those whom the Spirit of God has birthed into his kingdom when they believed the the gospel of Christ. This gospel is defined in first Corinthians 15, written by the apostle Paul in AD 54. He says it is the gospel by which repentant sinners are saved and it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

You don't say that.

Now work with me here a minute. If the apostle Paul was the one whom God chose to reveal and teach the mysteries of the church, why would Jesus be talking about it in 30 AD when no one had a clue about it? Paul was not even saved until 37/38 AD which was after the national rulers rejected the salvation of Jesus Christ by rejecting God's gift of the Spirit, who is life. He is required for anyone to enter into the kingdom of God, see Jn 3:3; 7. So what did God do? He did what he said earlier that he would do. He sent his men out to the hedges and highways to those who had not been previously bidden and invited them to come and fill his house with guests. They did not know that the guests who entered in the house at the wedding supper would also become the bride.


There are two types of ministries that are associated with this "present age." The first are the mysteries of the church. Paul is charged with making them known and explaining them to the gentile who had no previous relationship with God and needed to be told what is expected of them.

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers (of Israel):
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Of course he was speaking of the gentiles who were saved.

The second type of mysteries was given by Jesus Christ in the kingdom of heaven parables of which I think there are 12. Seven of them are in one chapter, Matthew 13, and the beginning is the sowing of the field with seeds. The field is the world Jesus said and is divided into 4 parts. The chapter ends with the reaping of the harvest and the separation of the tares and wheat which had been growing together. The tares had been previously bundled in different bundles by the angels for the purpose of burning them after the wheat was gathered into the barn. So these mysteries is a prophecy of this entire age that we are currently living in and it describes the age itself. So the age itself is God dealing with the world by his mercy and grace by providing atonement for the whole world in order to achieve his purpose of preparing a bride for his Son. This bride will share equally in the glories of his Son, God making it joint heirs with him.

The purpose of God in this age is glorious but the age itself is dangerous and deceptive and evil. I did not say that, God did.

Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (aion = age), according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Having said all that about the church of Jesus Christ, the focus of God in this present evil age, it remains that there is a rapture after the coming of Jesus Christ back to the earth from which he left, to rule and reign from Israel and over the nations of the earth. This is the focus of the perfect prophet Jesus Christ at the end of the age in which he died actually bringing that age to a close with his death. This coming is preceded by an angel sounding a trumpet but it is not the rapture of the church. That rapture was a mystery that was hidden and yet unrevealed at this time. Here is the language that is associated with this rapture.

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mt 24:30 And then (remember: at that time) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Note: You said they were coming from Pella, or some such place, but Jesus Christ said they are being raptured from one end of heaven to the other by the angels, plural. The rapture of the church had one accompanying angel, the archangel.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There is no mystery in these chapters in the gospels. All these things had been revealed by the prophets of Israel to Israel in OT times and had been discussed in their temple and synagogues for centuries. Those who the angels take after the great tribulation and after Christ comes back to the earth are the saved Jews among the unsaved Jews in the lands of the gentiles when God establishes his kingdom over a converted state of Israel, every one of them. They will all be taken back to the land of Israel where they will abide. The other Jews will be slain with the gentiles who are lost at the judgement of the nations in Matt 25. You should read it now.

This is all I have time for now but there is much to be said about these things. One thing is sure, these things did not happen in 70 AD like you claim.
No Jesus did not say they would be raptured. He stated they would be gathered. You will note the gathering is after the tribulation

Matthew 24:29–31 (NASB 2020) — 29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET BLAST, and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
 
'For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.'

(Tit 2:11-14)

Hello @JD731 and @TomL,

In the prison epistles of Paul, written following the Divine revelation concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ given to him: Paul tells the Colossian believers, that their life is hid with Christ in God, 'and when Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory' (Col. 3:3-4). We now love and look for His 'appearing' (2 Tim. 4:8 & Titus 2:13 ).

We have died with Christ, been buried, quickened and raised with Him, and now walk in newness of life before the Father, having been ascended in Christ to God's right hand, by the reckoning of God the Father. So the fact that we will appear with Him also does not seem so very extraordinary, for He is our life. Also, should we not survive until that blessed day, we will merely be reckoned by God to be, 'asleep in Christ' (1 Cor. 15:18) so will be with Him still in spirit.

When this takes place is nothing compared with the fact that it will take place. Would it not be much better to rejoice in that certainty rather than dispute when and how? :)

We know that at His appearing He will judge 'the quick and the dead' (2 Tim. 4:1).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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'For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.'

(Tit 2:11-14)

Hello @JD731 and @TomL,

In the prison epistles of Paul, written following the Divine revelation concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ given to him: Paul tells the Colossian believers, that their life is hid with Christ in God, 'and when Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory' (Col. 3:3-4). We now love and look for His 'appearing' (2 Tim. 4:8 & Titus 2:13 ).

We have died with Christ, been buried, quickened and raised with Him, and now walk in newness of life before the Father, having been ascended in Christ to God's right hand, by the reckoning of God the Father. So the fact that we will appear with Him also does not seem so very extraordinary, for He is our life. Also, should we not survive until that blessed day, we will merely be reckoned by God to be, 'asleep in Christ' (1 Cor. 15:18) so will be with Him still in spirit.

When this takes place is nothing compared with the fact that it will take place. Would it not be much better to rejoice in that certainty rather than dispute when and how? :)

We know that at His appearing He will judge 'the quick and the dead' (2 Tim. 4:1).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
The particulars of the gospel are at stake. This is no small matter. Aside from which there is his extremely problematic beliefs concerning gentiles
 
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