Do physical bodies die because of Adam's sin?

[Dizerner]

The same Paul says: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned"

I am aware, lol. Everyone was present in Adam, because we are generated from him.

9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak,
10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. (Heb. 7:9-10 NKJ)

( Romans 5:12). Paul is not blaming Adam of the punishment we deserve from our own sins.

You are moving the goalposts and changing my claim. That was not my claim.

You stated we are not punished because of what Adam did, AND WE ARE.

WE ARE ALSO punished because of what we do, those are not antithetical.

Nobody is punished for the sins of other person, because God is just.

You're just assuming your own preferences and opinions are the definition of justice.

Unconvincing and idolatrous.

Would you punish Arthur for the sins of Gary? If you, being a sinner, wouldn't do it...

Now you want me to exalt myself to the place of God as determiner of all right and wrong.

Get behind me, Satan!

It is not my place to decide what should be the punishments of sin, the sheer arrogance of the suggestion is outlandish.

Never ask a sinner what he would do and use it as the standard of all righteousness.

Horrible.

Please share your insights on Jesus teaching here (John 9:1-3):

Sure. You are extrapolating too much from the passage and reading things into it.

Jesus never said "this man is not born blind because of Adam."

That is just not there.

 

[David Koberstein]

I am aware, lol. Everyone was present in Adam, because we are generated from him.

9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak,
10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. (Heb. 7:9-10 NKJ)



You are moving the goalposts and changing my claim. That was not my claim.

You stated we are not punished because of what Adam did, AND WE ARE.

WE ARE ALSO punished because of what we do, those are not antithetical.



You're just assuming your own preferences and opinions are the definition of justice.

Unconvincing and idolatrous.



Now you want me to exalt myself to the place of God as determiner of all right and wrong.

Get behind me, Satan!

It is not my place to decide what should be the punishments of sin, the sheer arrogance of the suggestion is outlandish.

Never ask a sinner what he would do and use it as the standard of all righteousness.

Horrible.



Sure. You are extrapolating too much from the passage and reading things into it.

Jesus never said "this man is not born blind because of Adam."

That is just not there.

Keep on preaching bro!
Shabbat Shalom

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I am aware, lol. Everyone was present in Adam, because we are generated from him.

9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak,
10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. (Heb. 7:9-10 NKJ)

The author of Hebrews says "so to speak", because he is using Abraham as an archetype.
Paul was also using Adam as an archetype.
Literally speaking, Levi was not in the loins of Abraham, and you were not in the loins of Adam.
So, literally speaking, you did not sin when Adam sinned, and therefore you are not punished for the sin of Adam.

That goes in line with Gods revelation in Ezekiel 18.

You're just assuming your own preferences and opinions are the definition of justice.
Now you want me to exalt myself to the place of God as determiner of all right and wrong.

I'm using the same comparisons that Jesus used.
The attributes of God are the attributes man can understand in his terms. Otherwise revelation would not even exist. Can we agree on this?
So, taking the Bible as what it is: God's revelation in human terms, is not exalting ourselves over God. On the contrary, it is honoring God´s purpose in using human vehicles and human language to talk to us.

You have resorted to the same fallacy of self-exaltation over and over. Perhaps we need a separate thread to clear this out.
When the Bible says that God is just, or merciful, those terms mean something concrete and understandable. They cannot just mean anything.
We, religious people, believe that man's morality is given by God and reflect God's atributes (atheist don't think like us).

That's why, when Christ lives in you, you are fair and just in a specific way (not in a random way), which corresponds to the general understanding of justice. Thats precisely why your light can shine in the world and non-believers can glorify God.
If the justice you express as a Christian were ininteligible for the rest of the world, what would be the purpose of shining?

Sure. You are extrapolating too much from the passage and reading things into it.

Jesus never said "this man is not born blind because of Adam."

OK, then please share your thoughts on what Jesus meant here.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

It is not my place to decide what should be the punishments of sin, the sheer arrogance of the suggestion is outlandish.
Never ask a sinner what he would do and use it as the standard of all righteousness.

It is absolutely YOUR PLACE to decide whether you should punish Arthur for the sins committed by Gary.
In fact, you make this kind of choices almost daily. Haven't you been a father, a manager in the company, a co-worker, a teacher, a pastor, etc?
Then you have had plenty of opportunity to exercise justice.
God asks YOU, as a sinner, to do that, and has given you a standard in the life of Jesus, and has endowed you with the Holy Spirit.

So it is ABSOLUTELY FAIR and RELEVANT to ask you: "Would you punish Arthur for the sins of Gary? If you, who are a sinner, wouldn't do it, why do you think that God, who is infinitely more just than you, would do it?

 

[Dizerner]

It is absolutely YOUR PLACE to decide whether you should punish Arthur for the sins committed by Gary.

This is the fundamental difference between us.

I am not an idolator and I will not put myself in the place of God and give myself God's authority, and God does not ask me to do that.

Clearly you have no problem at all doing that, no fear of God before your eyes.

For you have said in your heart:`I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' (Isa. 14:13-14 NKJ)

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

This is the fundamental difference between us.

I am not an idolator and I will not put myself in the place of God and give myself God's authority, and God does not ask me to do that.

My friend: You are being REQUIRED BY GOD to exert justice, mercy, wisdom, etc every single day.

Your statement has no ground in real life, and no grounds in the Bible, where God constantly requires us to exert those godly attributes.
If I'm misunderstanding you in something, let me know, please.

 

[Jim]

You are ignorant by any standard;

When you talk to yourself like that, do you respond at all?

 

[Jim]

You probably need to put him and his Latino buddy on ignore. I already did the Latino. I can only take so much nonsense and ignorance. Besides I can't tolerate people disrespecting and dishonoring God.
Shabbat Shalom

The entire forum members should probably put you on ignore. None disrespect and dishonor God more than you are doing here. It doesn't seem to be out of ignorance so much as out of malice, though it may be both.

 

[David Koberstein]

You never did tell me what cult you represent.
It's obviously not Christianity or Messianic.
You are much like your father (Satan) that perverts Biblical truth and discredits Adonai.
Are you trying to ascend to the most High?
I'm very close to putting you on ignore for disrespecting and discrediting the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Who in the Hell do you think you are? The Master Designer of the universe created you out of dirt and you have the utmost nerve like Goliath in the Tanakh to steal thie respect and honor that belongs to Hashem?
Shabbat Shalom

 

[TedT]

Pre-Conception Existence Theology is condemned by Scripture.

Where?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The entire forum members should probably put you on ignore. None disrespect and dishonor God more than you are doing here. It doesn't seem to be out of ignorance so much as out of malice, though it may be both.

Hello Jim!

I suspect, based on my experience in Internet Forums, that some participants face psychiatric challenges.
They do not represent the attitudes or views of the vast majority of the mentally healthy in their religious communities.

This is a delicate topic to discuss, first because even if we were professional psychiatrists, a Forum is not precisely the place were a diagnosis can be made. Second, because there is a strong prejudice against psychiatric problems. To call somebody mentally ill is taken as an insult, when in reality it is no more insult that saying that somebody is diabetic.
However, it has been estimated that around one in two people will experience a mental health disorder at some point in their lifetime. This includes a wide range of conditions, from anxiety and depression to more severe disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

Personally I have an attention deficit disorder, which drives me sometimes to write posts with impulsivity, particularly in the afternoons and evenings (now, for example!)

When I find people who seem to enjoy insulting systematically other individuals or religious groups, I prefer to think they have a mental problem rather than a spiritual problem.

 

[David Koberstein]

Where?

Everywhere you look. I believe previous responses have given you that Scripture. So read it and learn.
Shalom

 

[Dizerner]

Where?

Psalm 139 says we are created in our mother's womb, not before we were born.

Plus your motive to believe it is all entirely off.

 

[TedT]

Everyone was present in Adam, because we are generated from him.

ImCo:
I do not accept this bit of eisegetics... each elect is sown separately into this world by the Son of Man Matt 13:37-38 while the devil sows each son of the evil one into this world, Matt 13:38-39.

Adam generates no one! No one is conceived as human except by the will of GOD who causes each to be conceived into their body.

 

[Dizerner]

Adam generates no one! No one is conceived as human except by the will of GOD who causes each to be conceived into their body.

I do hope you know people have something to do with it.

 

[Dizerner]

I've definitely met some crazy people online, heh.

You just share the Gospel, show some genuine concern, pray sincerely and believe that God can reach them.

Most mean people are just mean, though.

 

[David Koberstein]

Psalm 139 says we are created in our mother's womb, not before we were born.

Plus your motive to believe it is all entirely off.

ImCo:
I do not accept this bit of eisegetics... each elect is sown separately into this world by the Son of Man Matt 13:37-38 while the devil sows each son of the evil one into this world, Matt 13:38-39.

Adam generates no one! No one is conceived as human except by the will of GOD who causes each to be conceived into their body.

Adam's sin genetics was passed on to all humanity. In Romans in states for All have sinned. Adam is the father of all humanity
and Eve is the mother of all living.
Adonai's command to him was to be fruitful and multiply.What part of that do you not understand?
Shalom

 

[TedT]

Psalm 139 says we are created in our mother's womb, not before we were born.

Plus your motive to believe it is all entirely off.

What is your proof that Ps 139 refers to my eternal spirit (which praised GOD when HE created the physical universe) and not just to my human body when HE sowed me into this world by HIS breath, Matt 13:36-39?

 

[TedT]

Adam's sin genetics was passed on to all humanity. In Romans in states for All have sinned.

It DOES NOT say all sinned due to Adam' sin but that because they are sinners already all die when they come into Adam's genetics.

 

[David Koberstein]

What is your proof that Ps 139 refers to my eternal spirit (which praised GOD when HE created the physical universe) and not just to my human body when HE sowed me into this world by HIS breath, Matt 13:36-39?

I'm tired of throwing my pearls before swine.
You will be on ignore, so I don't waste my precious time refuting your heresy and crap.
Besides your interrupting my Wild Card game.
Shalom