Do physical bodies die because of Adam's sin?
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Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I believe that you, David Koberstein, do not have brain damage.Do you have braindamage? What cult do you belong to?
Shabbat Shalom
I believe that you are an intelligent person, created noble by God.
May God continue to bless you and your beloved ones.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Dear @Jim, @civic and @Dizerner
For most of our ancestors, all things that represented a threat to human existence on earth (eg earthquakes, diseases) were the result of something bad that men had done to cause the wrath of the gods. So, appeasing the gods was essential to prevent those things to happen.
If a person was born blind, this was the result of sins committed by his parents or by himself in a previous life.
Most of our ancestors didn't get the concept of a scenario set by God which included earthquakes and congenital blindness to give us the opportunity to glorify God. (John 9:1-3)
For example, a person born blind is an opportunity for
I personally believe all things that threaten or challenge our existence and happiness on this earth to be part of a scenario placed by God so that we can develop spiritually and know Him and become what He wants us to become.
In this cybernetic age, we may think in the scenario as a simulation game. The simulation game operates within certain rules or "laws", so that we can be trained and get skills. The simulation game is not a punishment of our sins. Within the simulation, we sin and we repent and we grow and get to know God.
For most of our ancestors, all things that represented a threat to human existence on earth (eg earthquakes, diseases) were the result of something bad that men had done to cause the wrath of the gods. So, appeasing the gods was essential to prevent those things to happen.
If a person was born blind, this was the result of sins committed by his parents or by himself in a previous life.
Most of our ancestors didn't get the concept of a scenario set by God which included earthquakes and congenital blindness to give us the opportunity to glorify God. (John 9:1-3)
For example, a person born blind is an opportunity for
- That person to develop other skills and senses
- The family and friends to value that person for what they are and develop more capacity for love
- Doctors and scientists to understand why congenital blindness happens and what can be done about it
- Society to provide adaptations and opportunities for those people
I personally believe all things that threaten or challenge our existence and happiness on this earth to be part of a scenario placed by God so that we can develop spiritually and know Him and become what He wants us to become.
In this cybernetic age, we may think in the scenario as a simulation game. The simulation game operates within certain rules or "laws", so that we can be trained and get skills. The simulation game is not a punishment of our sins. Within the simulation, we sin and we repent and we grow and get to know God.
Dizerner
Well-known member
It specifically says that is where the tree of life is, "the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." (Rev. 2:7)
You should know paradise just means "protected garden," and by extension, the idyllic state of God's presence.
The rest of your post is fairly logical garbage and I'm not sure it's worth the effort of dismantling.
I encourage you to look again over my posts showing that God does not love any kind of death.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Okay.
Then since blindness is so good and you think it's so great, why don't you burn your eyes out real quick to be blessed?
Do you think it's equitable and fair that you love your eyes so much you refuse to join your blind brothers who had no choice?
I want a straight answer out of you, and not some mealy-mouthed distraction on this.
I know you don't like the idea of punishment and God's judgments; this is the way sinners are born.
Do criminals love the justice system? Do they love the sentencing of courts? Do criminals love jails?
Of course you hate God's judgments on sin.
David Koberstein
Active member
That was not the Garden of Eden; That is heaven, represented as paradise.
Why should I know that? It is not so stated anywhere in Scripture. The following from Vine's Expository Dictionary:
Paradise
paradeisos (G3857) is an Oriental word, first used by the historian Xenophon, denoting "the parks of Persian kings and nobles." It is of Persian origin (Old Pers. pairidaeza, akin to Gk. peri, "around," and teichos, "a wall") whence it passed into Greek. See the Sept., e.g., in Neh_2:8; Ecc_2:5; Son_4:13. The Sept. translators used it of the garden of Eden, Gen_2:8, and in other respects, e.g., Num_24:6; Isa_1:30; Jer_29:5; Eze_31:8-9.
In Luk_23:43, the promise of the Lord to the repentant robber was fulfilled the same day; Christ, at His death, having committed His spirit to the Father, went in spirit immediately into Heaven itself, the dwelling place of God (the Lord's mention of the place as "paradise" must have been a great comfort to the malefactor; to the oriental mind it expressed the sum total of blessedness). Thither the apostle Paul was caught up, 2Co_12:4, spoken of as "the third heaven" (2Co_12:3 does not introduce a different vision), beyond the heavens of the natural creation (see Heb_4:14, RV, with reference to the Ascension). The same region is mentioned in Rev_2:7, where the "tree of life," the figurative antitype of that in Eden, held out to the overcomer, is spoken of as being in "the Paradise of God" (RV), marg., "garden," as in Gen_2:8.
Logical garbage? An interesting phrase. What does it even mean?
I am not sure what logical garbage even means, but given your usage of the phrase, I feel comfortable in giving it back to you as a response to looking over your posts.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Sigh, I'm sorry you thought the Bible was a dictionary, what?!
You see what I mean by logical garbage?
Then you post a DICTIONARY that proves my point, I really love the irony in that.
Now I would have to take the time to show how each thing you say is nonsense, and then have you make zero effort to understand why, and just parrot back my criticisms to me like a kid on the playground.
Not worth my time.
Well good; then please don't bother to ever respond to any of my posts.
David Koberstein
Active member
You are ignorant by any standard; especially of biblical creation. After the fall, man now has to work the ground he was created from to eat and produce food by the sweat of his brow. Man will return to the dust of the ground when he dies. All vegetation and fruit have an expiration date. It didn't before the fall. Man was a vegetarian before the fall. Because there was no need to kill anything for meat. There were no processes of any kind before the fall. God's Word was the only process before the fall and His Word was violated which resulted in sin. Since God's Word is the process; He can change it at anytime. Lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt for disobedience. Balaams donkey could talk. The 3 Hebrew men were thrown into a extremely hot
furnace and not one hair on them was cinched. Moses parted the mighty Red Sea with his staff for escape from Pharoah. We now have disease in the world from the fall and sin. I hope you get the point that things are different after the fall. God is the Author of physics and other natural law not Man.Shabbat Shalom
David Koberstein
Active member
You probably need to put him and his Latino buddy on ignore. I already did the Latino. I can only take so much nonsense and ignorance. Besides I can't tolerate people disrespecting and dishonoring God.
Shabbat Shalom
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I'll give you an straight answer, as I am a doctor who has fought disease and works in the development of medications to fight disease.
The opportunity to fight blindness is good. And such a good thing is possible only if blindness exist.
So, next time you find a person born blind, do not blame Adam, nor the devil. Make it an opportunity to glorify God.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
We are punished because of what we do, not because what Adam did.
Please review how Jesus dealt with this issue.
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth.
And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him"
Please reflect on the passage and share with us your thoughts.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Unbiblical.
For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. (Rom. 5:15 NKJ)
You can spend endless hours using logical judo to make this verse say the opposite of what it says.
Spare your time, for it will be ignored out of respect for Scripture.
David Koberstein
Active member
No. You heretics!
Dizerner
Well-known member
Pre-Conception Existence Theology is condemned by Scripture.
"by the one man's offense many died"
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
The same Paul says: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" ( Romans 5:12). Paul is not blaming Adam of the punishment we deserve from our own sins. He is trying to stop Christians from Jewish and Greek origin to quarrel. Paul is telling them they all have Adam as father and they all have Christ as Lord. In the same way Adam represents separation from God (death) Jesus represents reconciliation with God (eternal life). Jews and Greeks should be one. That's all.
This is God's justice:
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the punishment of the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father bear the punishment of the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:9, 20)
Nobody is punished for the sins of other person, because God is just.
Would you punish Arthur for the sins of Gary? If you, being a sinner, wouldn't do it, how do you think that Our Father in Heaven would do it?
Please share your insights on Jesus teaching here (John 9:1-3):
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth.
And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him"
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David Koberstein
Active member
You know the first red flag of these cultists is that they try to discredit God the supreme moral governor of the universe.
Shabbat Shalom
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