civic
Well-known member
They are not real. Greek mythology is not real. Don’t believe in Zeus , Achilles ?
Do physical bodies die because of Adam's sin?
- Thread starter Pancho Frijoles
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Richard
Active member
Just the facts:
Death Came Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Most wise men in Greece and the philosophers did not believe that the stories of the gods were factually correct.
The reality of a myth does not depend on the accuracy of the facts presented, but the lessons learned. That's the whole point.
It is like reading poetry. The difference is that in poetry, the images consist of few lines or words, while in myths consist in long stories.
When you go to a theater with little children to watch a play, you don't think that the actors are lying to you.
Your children may react as if what they were watching was a real story happening in that moment before their eyes. Then the parents talk to the child to let them know that the people on the stage are actors are representing something... and once back at home, they discuss with the child what he learned from the play. Will children grow believing that theater is a lie? Of course not!
Perhaps some of them, when they reach adulthood, will create their own plays or movies to tell stories.
civic
Well-known member
The Bible is not actors they were all real people in history beginning with the first man God created , Adam.
Celestial bodies are still physical items and follow their rules of physics.
Jesus is still a human. A transformed human as what well become but a human nevertheless with a form of physicality. He is certainly no ghost. So what's your problem with Jesus' form of physicality that believers will all inherit in the future?
Jesus' human condition has been immortalized in his Ascension. That's what believers will be transformed into so I don't know if that addresses your concern or not.
That's only possible with the Cross. That leaves out Allah in the cold.
You're just speculating. Greece was populated with brilliant philosophers and the presence of demons was visible for all to see. Even the Bible mentions them frequently. Allah is clearly one of those demons.
Well, your timing might be off here in that Satan flung some of stars to earth before he and his black angels were flung down, the same word.
Who were these people called stars that Satan flung to earth? They must have been sinners or he could have had no power over them, right? But why would Satan fling them away just before he needed every sinner in his fight against GOD's army?? It doesn't make sense.
So I suggest that these stars were the sinful elect who rebelled against GOD's command to come out from among the satanic but who would not fight for Satan against their GOD. As useless to his fight, Satan flung them down to the earth, to Sheol deep in the earth.
When GOD gave them bodies, ie, sowed them into bodies, Matt 13:36-39, is open to speculation but Adam being called the first to bring sin into the world (when he was the third to sin in the garden) implies to me that he was brought from Sheol into his new body by the breath of GOD first before any other sinner.
I'm curious to know, how is my timing off?
That is all about spiritual death, not physical death.
Great minds think alike!
In that case, he would have chosen to eat of the Tree of Life and he would have lived forever. No World Wars, no Holocausts, no Ethnic Cleansing, etc....
They believe humans are born with an immortal spirit. In my study and understanding, this is the oldest and most powerful deception used by the prince of this world, as Eve was convinced of the exact same thing. "You shall surely not die".
Jesus said there were men who, in this life, have already received their reward.
Matt. 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
God, through His Servant Moses, said "Life" and "death" is a choice that God places before men.
I especially like what is written about Jesus, when HE came to the knowledge that HE was a mortal man.
Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this choice made by Jesus) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Heb. 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, "and was heard" in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
It seems good to discuss what the Scriptures say concerning these things in search of "Doctrine, Correction, Reproof and "Instruction in Righteousness". As opposed to spending our lives justifying ourselves.
I agree that human and non-human life on earth is "mortal". But I think there is a difference between the spirit God breathed into animals, and spirit God breathed into humans. In my understanding, a pig has no choice in his life. He was created for a purpose which doesn't include being food for God's People. And the pig will always be a pig. And he is perfect in God's creation, because this world needs pigs. But the pig cannot make himself clean for food, cannot act like a wolf, or a snake or a cow, as it doesn't have a spirit that would give it the capacity to be anything other than a pig. In like manner, a cow is a cow. It has been created for a purpose, one of which is food for mankind as God commands in His Holy scriptures. The Cow eats grass. The serpent can talk till it is blue in the face, trying to get the cow to eat a fish, or gophers or swine's flesh. But the Cow has no spirit in it, that would allow it to "choose" to deviate from the purpose of God's creation.
But a human can be born innocent, perfect in God's eyes in obedience to the very purpose of its creation, but can grow to completely reject God's created purpose, it can act like an animal, or a god, or a wolf, or a snake, or a pig or a cow etc. Unlike an animal, It can choose to be clean, or become completely unclean, obedient or disobedient, submissive or rebellious and completely reject its creator.
This human has been given a spirit to "choose" to change, to cleanse himself, to "repent", to, as it is written, "Cast away his transgressions", and God will forget his past deeds and allow this man to repent from past choices, and allow him to "Choose" again, only this time to "choose Life". That's pretty good news in my view, given I am also found in the fashion of a man.
So I believe you are right, animals have no spirit to "Choose Life" or "Choose death". But it seems humans do, having a different spirit given to them, in my understanding.
I think, according to the "bible", that what I "do" in my life, is what determines if my life will be prolonged or not. I don't believe "Biological Death" was ever a real consideration except that I only have power to "do" something while I'm biologically alive. After I'm biologically dead, I can "do" or choose nothing.
Duet. 30: 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
I my reality, I can only "DO" something "Right Now". I can't go back in time, or forward in time and "do" anything. That's why, in my humble view, it is so important the teaching, "Today" if you hear HIS voice, harden not your hearts", as in the examples of men who, as Paul teaches, were shown the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible", but didn't believe it, (Have faith) choosing instead to "save their life" as opposed to losing it, for the Jesus "of the bibles" sake, These men already have their reward.
I agree with you 100% that the phrase "Tree of Life" is a metaphor. The Bible says our body will change. There are some who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that claim to know what this changed body will be. But if Paul and the Apostles didn't know, I doubt the promoters of this world's religious businesses will know.
1 John 3: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man "that hath this hope in him" purifieth himself, "even as he is pure".
Again, a pig or maggot or slug was not given the capacity of spirit to engage in such an action. In my view.
Great topic Pancho. Thanks for the reply and opportunity to share my understanding with you.
Richard
Active member
Adam probably could have eaten from the Tree of Life originally, but God gives no decree that he had to eat of it to sustain his life at that point. But, the tree may have been one means by which God used to help support and maintain Adam and Eve—perhaps a type of sustenance like manna.
Manna was a miraculous food that God provided for the Israelites in the wilderness. It symbolized God's care, provision, and test of obedience.
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