Do physical bodies die because of Adam's sin?

[101G]

You may consider the explanation offered in this thread about the loss of access to the tree of life as the cause of the biological decay and death of men.

well then 101G's point is made, because if entropy was in effect, then there was a force preventing it in Adam .... (as said, the tree of Knowledge of good and evil).

101G.

 

[TedT]

God created man in His image, meaning that He gave (or formed) each and every human being a spirit. It is in that spirit that man is created in God's image.

Yes...everyone was first created as a spirit. Humans are spirits who have been sown into, given, a human body. It is in the spirit that we will enjoy our heavenly marriage with HIM.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

@Pancho Frijoles,
the point that 101G is making is this. Adam didn't have blood before the fall into sin. the blood is the LIFE of the flesh after the fall. so was entropy in effect before the fall. because man was given a temporary LIFE.... BLOOD.

101G.

Thanks for your explanation, 101G.
Since I don't believe in a literal reading of these stories, it would not be productive for you to ask me about the implications of things that I do not take as literal, within a framework of literality. My sincere apologies.

 

[TibiasDad]

Death before sin is a problem for a perfect creation at the end of day six

With all due respect, my brother, the term for the conclusion of creation is “very good”, which does not mean perfect. It means that it was exactly what it was supposed to be. Perfection would mean death is impossible.

If physical death were not possible, there would be no need for the Tree of Life. The point that Adam and Eve were forced out of the garden so that they “must not be allowed to reach out [their] hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever” is a difficult one to overcome in that the eating of the tree is the sole reason for their not dying.


Doug

 

[101G]

Yes...everyone was first created as a spirit. Humans are spirits who have been sown into, given, a human body. It is in the sprit that we will enjoy our heavenly marriage with HIM.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, the Image is in FIGURE is it not? and a Image cannot exist without a source, correct?

as for likeness that can be figure or character... correct.

101G

 

[101G]

Since I don't believe in a literal reading of these stories, it would not be productive for you to ask me about the implications of things that I do not take as literal, within a framework of literality

thank also, but why use the criteria then, if it's not the reality you require?

101G

 

[101G]

if physical death were not possible, there would be no need for the Tree of Life.

agree, also then there was no need for the serpent either. but both was.

101G

 

[TedT]

Myths are lies , Genesis is facts not myths.

I agree...

but I remember that Genesis was written with no punctuation like this sentence: Isawabundanceonthetable leading to the Bun Dancer sect who read it: I saw a bun dance on the table. set against the Heavenly Rewards sect who read it: I saw abundance on the table. Our faith is formed from our hopes and dreams, Heb 11:1, as individual as our dna.

 

[TedT]

LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." please note not a Help ... "MATE".

First: Have you noticed that GOD created something NOT GOOD, lo tov, and then corrected it for all to be seen as good, tov? Weird, eh?

What could be not good about HIS creation? GOD's work had to be tov so where is the lack of goodness if it is not in Adam, in his bad attitude, chosen by his free will not by his creation.

Also, why would GOD have Adam look among the animals for his helper when HE knew Eve was going to be his helper? This must have been Adams foolish plan to find a helper, not GOD's.

Second: Helpmeet is an old fashioned word for helper, ie, wife, marriage partner, mate. Take your pick...

 

[101G]

First: Have you noticed that GOD created something NOT GOOD, lo tov, and then corrected it for all to be seen as good, tov? Weird, eh?

What could be not good about HIS creation? GOD's work had to be tov so where is the lack of goodness if it is not in Adam, in his bad attitude, chosen by his free will not by his creation.

Also, why would GOD have Adam look among the animals for his helper when HE knew Eve was going to be his helper? This must have been Adams foolish plan to find a helper, not GOD's.

Second: Helpmeet is an old fashioned word for helper, ie, wife, marriage partner, mate. Take your pick...

Read again 101G's post on Help Meet. https://berean-apologetics.communit...ies-die-because-of-adams-sin.2256/post-135201

101G.

 

[101G]

to all. it seems like there are so much many are missing/Understanding in the book of First/Genesis. if one want to end right, then start RIGHT ... at the beginning.

all that God made was God.

101G.

 

[synergy]

So, you do recognize that biological death in animals, plants, bacteria, etc was NOT the result of sin.

There's not enough information to forward a concrete opinion. There was sin in the world before Adam. Satan and his minions were banished to Earth before man was formed on Earth.

What you believe is that the biological death of men, our species, is the result of sin. Am I understanding you correctly?

Correct. Read Gen 3:19.

From a materialistic point of view expressed in Ecclesiastes 3:19, man and animal bodies have no difference in mortality
"For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. "

From a spiritual point of view, there is a difference. Right?

 

[synergy]

If Christ had a biological body

You don't believe Christ had a physical biological body that is now a transformed physical biological body? What was he, a ghost????

and were given the order to reproduce, and beget biologically immortal children within this planet which in turn would reproduce to beget more biologically immortal children on earth, yes, it would be catastrophic.

Fortunately, as Paul says: "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven."

People don't marry and procreate in Heaven. What type of "heaven" does Allah have in store for you?

 

[TedT]

then there is no need to discuss it with you since we both have a different standard for truth and facts. Genesis is a historical account of creation , the origins of life, man, the fall and results of sin on the world in which we live.

The logical does not instruct the mythological, sigh.

 

[civic]

"Ain't" that the truth. He has no standard.

The goalposts always move from Bahai, Koran, Bible , science , evolution etc ….

 

[civic]

The logical does not instruct the mythological, sigh.

There are no myths in the Bible just historical facts

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You don't believe Christ had a physical biological body that is now a transformed physical biological body? What was he, a ghost????

I cannot describe the type of properties of "celestial bodies", so to speak.
What I know is that they do not follow the rules and limitations of earthly bodies.

So, to insist in a physical body when it does not follow the laws of physics makes no sense.
To insist in a human body that does not work as a human body makes no sense.
If some people like you are confident in the literality of those things, it is understandable, I have nothing to criticize, as long as those beliefs do not constitute a condition put on the sinner to be forgiven and transformed by God.

To me, the important thing is that Christ is alive and victorious, and that we are crucified and resurrected with Him.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

People don't marry and procreate in Heaven.

I know.
I was just placing a hypothetical scenario for your question.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

From a spiritual point of view, there is a difference. Right?

Yes.
From a materialistic point of view, human and animal bodies follow the same biological rules.
From a spiritual point of view, we have been created in the image of God and our spirits return to Him.

This last part was questioned by the author of Ecclesiastes, who is taking a materialistic perspective on purpose to preach some words of wisdom.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Myths are lies , Genesis is facts not myths.

Why do you insist in considering myths "lies"? They are not!
It is a matter of consulting a dictionary, or the Internet.
Please let me share with you what Copilot says about the difference between a myth and a lie.