Do physical bodies die because of Adam's sin?
- Thread starter Pancho Frijoles
- Start date
Yeah, so?
I believe that Romans 5 is speaking of spiritual death, not physical death.
When Ephesians speaks of being dead in trespasses and sins, that is spiritual, not physical, death.
Another nice copy and paste sermon from the internet website. This time from "Answers in Genesis". I know this might be hard to accept, but just because a website calls Jesus Lord, Lord, doesn't mean their every religious opinion posted on the internet is true Civic. I am always amazed at the hypocrisy of modern religious philosophy.
You guys fight so hard to convince others that God's entire creation of the universe, dinosaurs, galaxies, worlds and earth and all that is therein, took 6 "literal", consecutive 24-hour periods, "6 days" based on Scriptures.
But these same preachers will fight just as hard to convince others that when Jesus said HE would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights, he wasn't speaking 3 "literal" days and was really only dead from just before sundown on Friday, and was raised from the dead before sunrise on Sunday "while it was yet dark", which is barely 1.5 "literal days". And this to preserve "Good Friday" and "Easter Sunday", both ancient religious traditions of this world, created by men in worship of their image of God since before Egyptian times.
You are, once again, omitting a verse.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
The implication of your adopted religious philosophy is that God had to have changed His entire Creation after the 7th Day. According to your adopted religious philosophy, man, whales and snakes and lions and dinosaurs were all herbivores, created to eat only grass and plant life, just like you claim the fish and all the mammals and reptiles in the ocean were only grass and plant eaters. So by God's creation, man, whales and snakes and lions and dinosaurs all had the teeth and digestive system of a cow or sheep. And this because God must not have known when HE created the heavens and earth, what Adam and Eve would do, when HE placed them in the garden. And didn't realize a talking snake that HE created was living there. So according to your preaching, God had to go back, after the 7th day, because HE had already sanctified and made it holy, and completely re-do the creation of animal life to make some of them carnivores. And of course, there were no seasons before the fall of Adam, no snow, no cold weather for them to need clothing. So in the "re-creation" you promote must have happened, HE added the 4 seasons we now have as well.
I guess in your religion, it was just a fortunate accident that God had already given man dominion over the fish, and over the animals since after Adam sinned, they became necessary for food and clothing.
When you couple this religious philosophy of yours, with your preaching that God also placed impossible to obey Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, and lied to them by telling them they could obey Him, that slaughtering them by the thousands when they didn't, it becomes clear why Jesus said to "Take Heed" specifically of this world's religions, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord."
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
There is nothing here forbidding man from eating the fish or pheasant or sheep God gave them dominion over. Nor is there anything prohibiting man from eating the herbs and seeds or fruits from the plant life God gave them.
You are infecting God's Word with your own adopted religious philosophy.
No it doesn't Civic. The implication of your religious philosophy is idiotic. It makes God out to be stupid, incompetent and unjust.
In your religious philosophy why would God tell them to "subdue" any living thing. Why would God tell Adam to subdue and have dominion over Velociraptors, Tyrannosaurus rex, sharks, lions, snakes when, according to you, they were all friends with Adam, all eating grass and apples with Adam in the Garden?
Think about this religion you have adopted and are now promoting for just 5 minutes. According to the religious business you have adopted and are now promoting, because God didn't know Adam would sin when HE first created, He had to change His entire creation, change the teeth and digestive system in dinosaurs, lions, whales, sharks, praying mantises, snakes and man, had to create seasons with cold and rain making it necessary for man to clothe themselves to protect them from cold and rain, using animal skins. Punished billions of innocent animals and fish who used to be safe, living in paradise with all the animals in the world, by suddenly making them a prey for animals and men.
All this based on these 3 sentences.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat "the herb" of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat "bread", till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
"Where is the beef"? Where is this complete reversal of creation that must have taken place according to your adopted religious philosophy?
It isn't there Civic. This religious philosophy you have adopted is the creation of religious men "that walketh after the imagination of his own heart"
No Civic, it would destroy the foundation of your specific adopted religious business and its created philosophies.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
This doesn't say God punished me because of Adam's Sin. You preach that, not Paul. Paul teaches God is no respecter of persons, and I am no better than Adam or anyone else that sinned. Your assertion that God punished me because of Adam's Sin and not my own, has no basis from scripture.
That is not to say that we don't all suffer from the sinless world around us, like Abel and Caleb, Paul and Jesus did.
Yes, it will great not to be in a war against our own thoughts, and the influence of this world's religions and traditions which surround us. This is why Paul said;
2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
You have nothing but your own imagination and adopted religious philosophies of this world, to support this teaching. There is nothing in Scriptures that says God went about "re-doing" His entire creation concerning plant life, after Adam sinned. Just more religious foolishness promoted by the "many" that Jesus said to "Take heed" of, who come in His Name.
I know you are on a mission here to promote your specific religious business. And are not allowed by your masters to question their philosophies.
But I'll ask anyway, in the hopes that maybe you can escape the snare you are in.
"Do you think, in the promised New Heavens and the New Earth, God will place another snake that quotes some of God's Word to deceive people?" And if not, why? You are preaching that God's World was perfect, no death, no suffering, all animals and fish were herbivores, until Adam sinned. Why don't you ever place even the responsibility that God placed on the "God's Word" quoting snake?
Are you now preaching that God has learned His lesson by now, and won't be taken off guard by a snake HE created in the next world HE creates, like HE was in the last?
This person seriously thinks that the Paraclete is not the Holy Spirit that we all embody but is Baha'u'llah. That is some strong weed that's being passed around amongst the Baha'i.
Are you serious? It is the spirit that becomes depraved by sin and needs to be repaired, i.e., reborn.
101G
Well-known member
it's called disobedience, you're not in fellowship with God, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
101G.
Of course you are right Jim.
In my understanding, it is the spirit within us that guides our deeds that God, Jesus and Paul said we would all be judged by. It is written that the "Word" of God that HE gave Jesus to give to us, "Is Spirit and is Life". And in fact, there is no other path to life than though this "Word". When the spirit in us joins with, or "Yields itself" to this "Word", the result is a change in our deeds as we become reborn and grow in the knowledge of God. This is because there is Life within us. When the spirit within us rejects or ignores this "Word", even though we might call Jesus Lord, Lord, and preach in His Name, there is no Life within us. Because as you stated, the spirit within us becomes depraved by sin, and is in need of repair. Without the "Word" such a repair is not possible, the sinful deeds will never cease, and we will receive the reward promised by God in the Holy Scriptures to those who "Work Iniquity".
Great analogy.
101G
Well-known member
To all, since a few do not understand the difference between spiritual death and or separation and Physical Death. in Comparision to relationship and fellowship to God.
a. spiritual separation (which some calls spiritual death). the Greek term for "DEATH" here is
G599 ἀποθνήσκω apothnesko (a-po-thnee'-skō) v.
to die off.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G575 and G2348]
KJV: be dead, death, die, lie a-dying, be slain (X with)
Root(s): G575, G2348
to die off? it's a process? notice how this word can be use... "lie a-dying" WHAT? d-y-i-n-g. let's see this term used in scripture, Mark 12:20 "Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed." this is the same word used. now this, 1 Corinthians 15:31 "I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." ... die ... daily, sound like a process. let's give an example as to see this clearly. say for instance one has a disease that could lead to death...... untreated or without cure.... result in death. but if a cure is found, even though one has a DEATH Sentence, yet alive until the cure, are in a state of death.
b. spiritual separation (as in ADAM), example, you have a child, and your child goes anti-social and kill, is that not your child? yes, the relationship do not change. you are that child parent, and that child is your son or daughter. and as a Parent you might NOT like what your child did, (which is broken fellowship), but the relationship do not change. and you as a Parent will do all in your power to help your child. as with God, who is the GREAT parent of us all has done in his power to help us in this time of BROKEN FELLOWSHIP. he paid the price for our disobedience/sin. his blood is the cure to our disease called sin.
and remember..... Adam was a Son, supportive scripture, Luke 3:38 "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." the relationship do not change, only BROKEN FELLOWSHIP that separate us from our Father. hence REPENTANCE, and FORGIVENESS.
now, separation and DEATH are they the same? let's see. 1 Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:" 1 Corinthians 7:11 "But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife."
a many, not all IGNORANT preachers use this scriptures to say you cannot remarry while your wife is alive, she must be dead before one can remarry. THIS is the IGNORANCE 101G speak of. "depart" means separate, but he and she is still married. only until he or she ... "PUT AWAY"/dissolve the marriage then either party can remarry. so their is a process. so, one can be separate, but yet married. until he or she ... "PUT AWAY" or dissolve the marriage, then one can remarry.
we need to look up these word, and how they are really used in context.
101G.
a. spiritual separation (which some calls spiritual death). the Greek term for "DEATH" here is
G599 ἀποθνήσκω apothnesko (a-po-thnee'-skō) v.
to die off.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G575 and G2348]
KJV: be dead, death, die, lie a-dying, be slain (X with)
Root(s): G575, G2348
to die off? it's a process? notice how this word can be use... "lie a-dying" WHAT? d-y-i-n-g. let's see this term used in scripture, Mark 12:20 "Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed." this is the same word used. now this, 1 Corinthians 15:31 "I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." ... die ... daily, sound like a process. let's give an example as to see this clearly. say for instance one has a disease that could lead to death...... untreated or without cure.... result in death. but if a cure is found, even though one has a DEATH Sentence, yet alive until the cure, are in a state of death.
b. spiritual separation (as in ADAM), example, you have a child, and your child goes anti-social and kill, is that not your child? yes, the relationship do not change. you are that child parent, and that child is your son or daughter. and as a Parent you might NOT like what your child did, (which is broken fellowship), but the relationship do not change. and you as a Parent will do all in your power to help your child. as with God, who is the GREAT parent of us all has done in his power to help us in this time of BROKEN FELLOWSHIP. he paid the price for our disobedience/sin. his blood is the cure to our disease called sin.
and remember..... Adam was a Son, supportive scripture, Luke 3:38 "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." the relationship do not change, only BROKEN FELLOWSHIP that separate us from our Father. hence REPENTANCE, and FORGIVENESS.
now, separation and DEATH are they the same? let's see. 1 Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:" 1 Corinthians 7:11 "But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife."
a many, not all IGNORANT preachers use this scriptures to say you cannot remarry while your wife is alive, she must be dead before one can remarry. THIS is the IGNORANCE 101G speak of. "depart" means separate, but he and she is still married. only until he or she ... "PUT AWAY"/dissolve the marriage then either party can remarry. so their is a process. so, one can be separate, but yet married. until he or she ... "PUT AWAY" or dissolve the marriage, then one can remarry.
we need to look up these word, and how they are really used in context.
101G.
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