Did God ( Christ ) die ?

[charismaticlady]

The interpretation of scripture is never a matter of personal preference. Different Hebrew words are used when speaking of man's creation. Our interpretation might be wrong but God's truth is specific. It's a matter of continuing to study, relying on His Spirit to be enlightened.

What I did after joining my first Christian forum site and finding out all the different interpretations of Scripture was to wonder about myself. I then asked God to wipe my mind clean of all false doctrines and misinterpretations of Scripture and teach me His interpretation and His doctrines anew.
He started immediately! I'm very sure about what I believe now, and He hasn't stopped. I knew He would answer that prayer as He has answered every prayer since I became born again of the Spirit. Before that day not one prayer had ever been answered for the previous 30 years. What a difference the Spirit makes.

 

[Logikos]

@dizerner @armylngst

Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word die. To die does not mean to go out of existence. Death is separation. Physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body (John 19:30). However, if by “death” we mean “a cessation of existence,” then, no, God did not die. For God to “die” in that sense would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His divine nature did not die, nor could it.

Jesus is truly God and truly man. His physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50). Just as our physical bodies will someday die, so did His. But as Jesus died physically, He remained alive spiritually. Jesus made good on His promise to the believing thief on the cross—He and the thief both went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit (Luke 23:43).

So, Jesus died physically on the cross, as was plain for all to see (John 19:34). But there is also the matter of spiritual death. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, He experienced death on our behalf. Even though He is God, He still had to suffer the agony of a temporary separation from the Father due to the sin He bore. After three hours of supernatural darkness, Jesus cried, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). So, could it be said that Jesus also “died” spiritually? Again, it was only His human nature that was separated from God, not His divine nature. God did not “die.”

The question for all people to ask is “what will happen to my soul/spirit when it leaves my physical body?” This is the most crucial question in life. As we saw with Jesus, our spirits will leave our bodies and travel on to somewhere else. We will either follow Him to heaven to spend eternity with Him, or we will go to hell to spend eternity in “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12). There is no other option. Jesus’ death on the cross paid the way for all who would ever believe in Him so that we can know for sure where our spirits will reside for eternity. His death provided us spiritual life, both here and in heaven. “And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you” (Romans 8:11). got ?

hope this helps !!!

Oh man! This come so close!

You are correct that death does not mean to cease to exist. You are also correct when you say that death is a separation and that physical death happens when one's spirit separates from the physical body. Where you make a mistake is by stopping there and seemingly reverting to the notion that death is a cessation of existence when applied to the spirit. It is not! Spiritual death is also a separation!

Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

What does Paul mean that he died? He didn't die physically but spiritually, right? What does that mean? Well, it means that he was separated from God. Thus just as physical death is a separation of the spirit from the physical body, so spiritual death is a separation of the spirit from God.

Did Jesus die spiritually? Was Jesus separated from God (i.e. the Father)? YES!!!

​

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”​

Further, as you make reference to in your post, Jesus went to what He called "Paradise" which we know was not "Heaven" because Jesus tells Mary, after His resurrection, that He had not yet ascended to the Father but rather was the place of the righteous dead, also known as "Abraham's Bosom", which is were all the faithful dead resided prior to the redeeming work of the cross. Thus, Jesus died in every sense in which any righteous person has ever died and He rose from the dead by His own power (John 10:18). Praise God!

 

[civic]

Oh man! This come so close!

You are correct that death does not mean to cease to exist. You are also correct when you say that death is a separation and that physical death happens when one's spirit separates from the physical body. Where you make a mistake is by stopping there and seemingly reverting to the notion that death is a cessation of existence when applied to the spirit. It is not! Spiritual death is also a separation!

Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

What does Paul mean that he died? He didn't die physically but spiritually, right? What does that mean? Well, it means that he was separated from God. Thus just as physical death is a separation of the spirit from the physical body, so spiritual death is a separation of the spirit from God.

Did Jesus die spiritually? Was Jesus separated from God (i.e. the Father)? YES!!!

​

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”​

Further, as you make reference to in your post, Jesus went to what He called "Paradise" which we know was not "Heaven" because Jesus tells Mary, after His resurrection, that He had not yet ascended to the Father but rather was the place of the righteous dead, also known as "Abraham's Bosom", which is were all the faithful dead resided prior to the redeeming work of the cross. Thus, Jesus died in every sense in which any righteous person has ever died and He rose from the dead by His own power (John 10:18). Praise God!

I address this in great detail here. It’s this study which led me out of Calvinism. It’s a thesis paper I’m at some point going to turn into a book and elaborate on each point in this link.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

 

[Logikos]

I address this in great detail here. It’s this study which led me out of Calvinism. It’s a thesis paper I’m at some point going to turn into a book and elaborate on each point in this link.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

A rejection of the penal substitution of Christ's death is a denial of the gospel itself and no one that I've ever encountered who denies it, doesn't also deny the deity of Christ. It is not Christian doctrine except in name only.

Are you also a Universalist?

 

[Logikos]

I address this in great detail here. It’s this study which led me out of Calvinism. It’s a thesis paper I’m at some point going to turn into a book and elaborate on each point in this link.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

Rather than deflecting to some other thread, would you care to respond directly to what I said in relation to the topic of THIS thread?

 

[civic]

A rejection of the penal substitution of Christ's death is a denial of the gospel itself and no one that I've ever encountered who denies it, doesn't also deny the deity of Christ. It is not Christian doctrine except in name only.

Are you also a Universalist?

There are 7 plus theories of the atonement in church history . No one believed in PSA until the reformation period. It’s the most recent of the theories. The gospel has nothing to do with PSA.

No Im not a universalist

 

[Workingman]

@dizerner @armylngst

Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word die. To die does not mean to go out of existence. Death is separation. Physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body (John 19:30). However, if by “death” we mean “a cessation of existence,” then, no, God did not die. For God to “die” in that sense would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His divine nature did not die, nor could it.

Jesus is truly God and truly man. His physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50). Just as our physical bodies will someday die, so did His. But as Jesus died physically, He remained alive spiritually. Jesus made good on His promise to the believing thief on the cross—He and the thief both went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit (Luke 23:43).

So, Jesus died physically on the cross, as was plain for all to see (John 19:34). But there is also the matter of spiritual death. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, He experienced death on our behalf. Even though He is God, He still had to suffer the agony of a temporary separation from the Father due to the sin He bore. After three hours of supernatural darkness, Jesus cried, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). So, could it be said that Jesus also “died” spiritually? Again, it was only His human nature that was separated from God, not His divine nature. God did not “die.”

The question for all people to ask is “what will happen to my soul/spirit when it leaves my physical body?” This is the most crucial question in life. As we saw with Jesus, our spirits will leave our bodies and travel on to somewhere else. We will either follow Him to heaven to spend eternity with Him, or we will go to hell to spend eternity in “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12). There is no other option. Jesus’ death on the cross paid the way for all who would ever believe in Him so that we can know for sure where our spirits will reside for eternity. His death provided us spiritual life, both here and in heaven. “And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you” (Romans 8:11). got ?

hope this helps !!!

The way you explained death I would agree that God died. I had not looked at it this way until reading this post.

 

[Logikos]

There are 7 plus theories of the atonement in church history . No one believed in PSA until the reformation period. It’s the most recent of the theories. The gospel has nothing to do with PSA.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

I notice no denial from you about rejecting the deity of Christ. Was that on purpose?

No Im not a universalist

Really? That ultra long article you linked to certainly implies as much. I could have misunderstood something.

 

[civic]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

I notice no denial from you about rejecting the deity of Christ. Was that on purpose?

Really? That ultra long article you linked to certainly implies as much. I could have misunderstood something.

I’m a trinitarian

 

[Johann]

The way you explained death I would agree that God died. I had not looked at it this way until reading this post.

Nope-God did not die.

 

[civic]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

I notice no denial from you about rejecting the deity of Christ. Was that on purpose?

Really? That ultra long article you linked to certainly implies as much. I could have misunderstood something.

I have never denied Christs Deity. Quote me.

 

[101G]

Nope-God did not die.

is not the Lord Jesus God ..... in flesh? and the death he died was from natural forces, (the body), that he took on? and that death was the FIRST DEATH which all can achieve and be risen from correct. Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

101G.

 

[101G]

I have never denied Christs Deity. Quote me.

Correct, did the Lord Jesus who is God die on the cross? Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

101G.

 

[Johann]

is not the Lord Jesus God ..... in flesh? and the death he died was from natural forces, (the body), that he took on? and that death was the FIRST DEATH which all can achieve and be risen from correct. Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

101G.

Jn 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

the Word
*Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

*Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

*1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Is 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Mt 1:20-23 [20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. [21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. [22] Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, [23] Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Lk 1:31-35 [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Lk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Ro 1:3-4 [3] Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; [4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Ro 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Php 2:6-8 [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Heb 2:14-17 [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. [17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

1Jn 4:2-3 [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

we
Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Jn 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

Jn 12:40-41 [40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. [41] These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Jn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Is 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Is 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Is 60:1-2 [1] Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. [2] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

Mt 17:1-5 [1] And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, [2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. [3] And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. [4] Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. [5] While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

2Co 4:4-6 [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. [5] For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake. [6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1Pe 2:4-7 [4] To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, [5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. [6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. [7] Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1Jn 1:1-2 [1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; [2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

the only
*1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ps 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ac 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

full
Jn 1:16-17 [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Ps 45:2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1Ti 1:14-16 [14] And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. [15] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. [16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Reciprocal
Ge 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Ge 41:55 And when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread: and Pharaoh said unto all the Egyptians, Go unto Joseph; what he saith to you, do.

Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Ex 17:7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?

Ex 26:1 Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.

Ex 28:2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

Ex 37:10 And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof:

Ex 40:18 And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars.

Le 8:26 And out of the basket of unleavened bread, that was before the LORD, he took one unleavened cake, and a cake of oiled bread, and one wafer, and put them on the fat, and upon the right shoulder:

Le 23:34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.

Nu 29:12 And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days:

Dt 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

1Ki 8:11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

1Ki 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Ne 8:17 And all the congregation of them that were come again out of the captivity made booths, and sat under the booths: for since the days of Jeshua the son of Nun unto that day had not the children of Israel done so. And there was very great gladness.

Ps 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

Ps 85:9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

Ps 87:5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.

Pr 8:21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

Pr 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

So 2:3 As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

So 5:9 What is thy beloved more than another beloved, O thou fairest among women? what is thy beloved more than another beloved, that thou dost so charge us?

So 8:1 O that thou wert as my brother, that sucked the breasts of my mother! when I should find thee without, I would kiss thee; yea, I should not be despised.

Is 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

Is 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Is 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Is 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Eze 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

Da 2:11 And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.

Hag 2:7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

Hag 2:9 The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.

Zec 9:17 For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Mt 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Mk 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mk 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mk 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

Mk 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mk 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

Lk 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Lk 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

Lk 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Jn 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jn 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jn 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ac 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;

Ac 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Tt 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Re 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Re 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Re 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Re 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 

[101G]

Correct, did the Lord Jesus who is God die on the cross? Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

101G.

Thank you, for many deny the Lord Jesus death that is of the BODY, and not the Spirit. for he Christ was in the Form of God as Philippians 2:6 clearly states. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" the form of God is Spirit. for the BODY without the ...... "spirit" is dead, which is the First death, .... of the Body, and Not the spirit.

101G,

 

[Kenny]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/god-is-plural.204/post-77926

You're welcome

 

[101G]

Mt 1:20-23 [20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. [21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

let's take one thing at a time.
Correct, that BODY, not the Spirit was conceived. and the one who conceived that body was the HOLY Ghost, which means by definition, the HOLY SPIRIT is the FATHER, do you agree?

Re 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Correct, that RESURRECT Body is the temple that dwells with us and is this not the Lord Jesus? yes, for, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

agent "J" is this not the same Body/Temple spoken here in Revelation 21:3 and John 2 ... do you agree?

101G.

 

[Johann]

let's take one thing at a time.
Correct, that BODY, not the Spirit was conceived. and the one who conceived that body was the HOLY Ghost, which means by definition, the HOLY SPIRIT is the FATHER, do you agree?

Correct, that RESURRECT Body is the temple that dwells with us and is this not the Lord Jesus? yes, for, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

agent "J" is this not the same Body/Temple spoken here in Revelation 21:3 and John 2 ... do you agree?

101G.

Affirmative on both-I have a suspicion as to what comes next.

 

[101G]

Affirmative on both-I have a suspicion as to what comes next.

(smile) ...lol, lol,,lol. OK agent "J" you got me there. and because of what you said 101G will not answer ... lol, lol, lol, ....... but you Know.... lol, lol, lol, Oh my.


101G.

 

[Johann]

Where did Jesus go for the three days and three nights after dying on the cross? No one knows for certain where Jesus was the entire time during the three days between His crucifixion and resurrection. We know for certain where he was part of the time––in Paradise. But an enigmatic verse in 1 Peter about, “preaching to the spirits in prison” opens up other possibilities.

"For Christ died for sins once for all... to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built..." 1 Peter 3:18-20

What did Jesus preach to them, the gospel? Was He preaching to "the spirits in prison" intimates that the people who died before the crucifixion (especially the people who lived in the days of Noah) were given a second chance to repent! I don't think we can be sure since Peter is the only one that mentions this. But it's in the Bible.

1Pe 3:19 in ἐν which ᾧ also καὶ having gone, πορευθεὶς He preached ἐκήρυξεν, to the τοῖς spirits πνεύμασιν in ἐν prison φυλακῇ

preached = heralded. App-121. Not the Gospel, which would be App-121. He announced His triumph.

Gill has an excellent commentary on this verse--

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Various are the senses given of this passage: some say, that Christ, upon his death, went in his human soul to hell; either, as some, to preach to the devils and damned spirits, that they might be saved, if they would; and, as others, to let them know that he was come, and to fill them with dread and terror; but though hell may be meant by the prison, yet the text does not say that he went unto it, or preached in it; only that the spirits were in it, to whom he sometimes went, and preached; nor is his human soul, but his divine nature meant, by the Spirit, by which he went and preached to them: and as for the ends proposed, the former is impracticable and impossible; for after death follows judgment, which is an eternal one; nor is there any salvation, or hope of salvation afterwards; and the latter is absurd, vain, and needless. Others, as the Papists, imagine the sense to be, that Christ, at his death, went in his human soul, into a place they call "Limbus Patrum", which they suppose is meant by the prison here, and delivered the souls of the Old Testament saints and patriarchs from thence, and carried them with him to heaven; but this sense is also false, because, as before observed, not the human soul of Christ, but his divine nature, is designed by the Spirit; nor is there any such place as here feigned, in which the souls of Old Testament saints were, before the death of Christ; for they were in peace and rest, in the kingdom of heaven, in Abraham's bosom, inheriting the promises, and not in a prison; besides, the text says not one word of the delivering of these spirits out of prison, only of Christ's preaching to them: add to all this, and which Beza, with others, observes, the apostle speaks of such as had been disobedient, and unbelievers; a character which will not agree with righteous men, and prophets, and patriarchs, under the former dispensation: others think the words are to be understood of Christ's going to preach, by his apostles, to the Gentiles, as in Eph_2:17 who were in a most miserable condition, strangers to the covenants of promise, and destitute of the hope of salvation, and sat in darkness, and the shadow of death, and, as it were, at the gates of hell; were in the bonds of iniquity, and dead in sin, and had been for long time past foolish and disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, to which they were in bondage.

This is, indeed, a more tolerable sense than the former; but it will be difficult to show, that men, in the present state of life, are called "spirits", which seems to be a word that relates to the souls of men, in a separate state from their bodies; and especially that carnal and unconverted men are ever so called; and besides, the apostle is speaking of such who were disobedient in the times of Noah; and therefore not of the Gentiles, in the times of the apostles: add to which, that the transition from the times of the apostles, according to this sense, to the days of Noah, is very unaccountable; this sense does not agree with the connection of the words: others are of opinion, that this is meant of the souls of the Old Testament saints, who were εν φυλακη, "in a watch", as they think the phrase may be rendered, instead of "in prison": and said to be in such a situation, because they were intent upon the hope of promised salvation, and were looking out for the Messiah, and anxiously desiring his coming, and which he, by some gracious manifestation, made known unto them: but though the word may sometimes signify a watch, yet more commonly a prison, and which sense best suits here; nor is that anxiety and uneasiness, which represents them as in a prison, so applicable to souls in a state of happiness; nor such a gracious manifestation so properly called preaching; and besides, not believers, but unbelievers, disobedient ones, are here spoken of; and though it is only said they were sometimes so, yet to what purpose should this former character be once mentioned of souls now in glory?

But it would be tedious to reckon up the several different senses of this place; some referring it to such in Noah's time, to whom the Gospel was preached, and who repented; and though they suffered in their bodies, in the general deluge, yet their souls were saved; whereas the apostle calls them all, "the world of the ungodly", 2Pe_2:5 and others, to the eight souls that were shut up in the ark, as in a prison, and were saved; though these are manifestly distinguished in the text from the disobedient spirits.

The plain and easy sense of the words is, that Christ, by his Spirit, by which he was quickened, went in the ministry of Noah, the preacher of righteousness, and preached both by words and deeds, by the personal ministry of Noah, and by the building of the ark, to that generation who was then in being; and who being disobedient, and continuing so, a flood was brought upon them which destroyed them all; and whose spirits, or separate souls, were then in the prison of hell, so the Syriac version renders it, בשיול, "in hell", see Rev_20:7

When the Apostle Peter wrote this epistle; so that Christ neither went into this prison, nor preached in it, nor to spirits that were then in it when he preached, but to persons alive in the days of Noah, and who being disobedient, when they died, their separate souls were put into prison, and there they were when the apostle wrote: from whence we learn, that Christ was, that he existed in his divine nature before he was incarnate, he was before Abraham, he was in the days of Noah; and that Christ also, under the Old Testament, acted the part of a Mediator, in his divine nature, and by his Spirit discharged that branch of it, his prophetic office, before he appeared in human nature; and that the Gospel was preached in those early times, as unto Abraham, so before him.

THE SYNONYMOUS WORDS
FOR
"PREACH", ETC.
1. kerusso = to proclaim (as a herald), from kerux , a herald; without reference to the matter proclaimed (which is contained in No. 4); and without including the idea of teaching .
2. kerux = a herald.
3. kerugma = that which is proclaimed.
4. evangelizo = to announce a joyful message; having to regard to the matter announced (not the manner, which is contained in No. 1).
5. katangello = to bring word down to anyone, bring it home by setting it forth.
6. diangello = to make known (through an intervening space); report further (by spreading it far and wide).
7. laleo = to talk or to use the voice, without references to the words spoken (See Mar_2:2).
8. dialegomai = to speak to and fro (alternately), converse, discuss (see Act_20:7; Act_20:9). Hence Eng. dialogue.
9. akoe = hearing. Put by Fig. Metonymy (of subject) for what is heard.
10. logos = the word (spoken, as a means or instrument, not as a product); the expression (both of sayings and of longer speeches); hence, an account, as in Mat_12:36; Mat_18:23. Luk_16:2. Act_19:40. Rom_9:28; Rom_14:12. Php_4:17. Heb_13:17. 1Pe_4:5. For the difference between logos and rhema , see note on Mar_9:32.

Transliteration: ekēryxen
Morphology: V-AIA-3S
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G2784 (κηρύσσω)
Meaning: To proclaim, herald, preach.

No second chance.