Deliverance from Calvinism

[Jim]

Not one verse disproves the verses I quoted

And not one of the verses you posted disproves the verses I quoted.

Um it is listed alone in all verses I quoted

So what? I am beginning to think that your reading comprehension is rather limited. The fact that only faith is present in the verses you quoted does not mean in any sense that it means faith only.

If i tell you that you need a battery in your car in order to start it, does not mean that you need only a battery in your care to start it.

And in case you did not understand, everyone who calls or confesses is a believer which is sufficient for salvation

That is simply not true. First, all of the verses you posted presents faith as a necessary condition; however, none of them present faith as a sufficient condition. Second, the verses I posted demonstrates that faith is not a sufficient condition.

 

[TomL]

And not one of the verses you posted disproves the verses I quoted.

That is a purely false claim

As many verses state those who believe receive eternal life

John 6:47

Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

BTW your comment is rather illogical

So what? I am beginning to think that your reading comprehension is rather limited. The fact that only faith is present in the verses you quoted does not mean in any sense that it means faith only.

If i tell you that you need a battery in your car in order to start it, does not mean that you need only a battery in your care to start it.

And if you were told to replace your battery, your car will start?

You, however, simply ignore the fact scripture states, Believe, and you will receive life.

Making such a comment as you have is limiting your reading comprehension, not mine.

 

[Jim]

That is a purely false claim

As many verses state those who believe receive eternal life

John 6:47

Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

BTW your comment is rather illogical


And if you were told to replace your battery, your car will start?

You, however, simply ignore the fact scripture states, Believe, and you will receive life.

Making such a comment as you have is limiting your reading comprehension, not mine.

You need to buy a book on basic logic. None of those verses says that you need only to believe.

 

[TomL]

You need to buy a book on basic logic. None of those verses says that you need only to believe.

Think! Verses say those who believe will receive life

They do not say it is one thing you need, as you misread the verses.

You have failed to actually address what was posted

J

Post in thread 'Deliverance from Calvinism'

Oct 22, 2025

That is a purely false claim

As many verses state those who believe receive eternal life

John 6:47

Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...

• Jim

 

[Jim]

Think! Verses say those who believe will receive life

They do not say it is one thing you need, as you misread the verses.

Those do not, but others do. Those others are not wrong.

As I said, you need to by a book on basic logic, read and learn.

 

[TomL]

Those do not, but others do. Those others are not wrong.

As I said, you need to by a book on basic logic, read and learn.

You are simply ignoring the fact verses exist, saying if you believe, you will receive life.

There are no verses that state if you believe but do not do x or/and y you cannot receive life

Your interpretation requires at least men believe, be water baptised and verbally confess Jesus is lord or they are not saved

There are zero verses that state such

So not only are you ignoring many verses that state those who believe receive life, you are also arguing based upon a claim that is found nowhere in scripture.

The result of such an argument points to you as needing to reconsider the claims you made about reading a book, logic, etc.

 

[Jim]

Your interpretation requires at least men believe, be water baptised and verbally confess Jesus is lord or they are not saved

Again, your reading comprehension is really bad. I have never said that. What I have said many times in the past and will repeat here is that God the Son, Jesus Christ, has said that whosoever believes and is baptized will be saved. It is a promise God has made to us. God has said, through the Apostle Peter, that we as believers should repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and to receive the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. That is a promise God has made. He has made other statements and promises that say that the believer who confesses will be saved. Again, that is God's statement and a promise.

What God chooses to do beyond that is quite up to Him. But God has never said that all you have to do is believe.

 

[TomL]

Again, your reading comprehension is really bad. I have never said that. What I have said many times in the past and will repeat here is that God the Son, Jesus Christ, has said that whosoever believes and is baptized will be saved. It is a promise God has made to us. God has said, through the Apostle Peter, that we as believers should repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and to receive the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. That is a promise God has made. He has made other statements and promises that say that the believer who confesses will be saved. Again, that is God's statement and a promise.

What God chooses to do beyond that is quite up to Him. But God has never said that all you have to do is believe.

Give it up. You not only argue about the addition of water baptism, but you argued based on the verse speaking of the verbal confession Jesus is lord

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

That is what you have been arguing; denying faith of itself is insufficient.

And you are still ignoring the many verses that state that if you believe, you will see life.

 

[Jim]

Give it up. You not only argue about the addition of water baptism, but you argued based on the verse speaking of the verbal confession Jesus is lord

Why would I, as you do, give up what the bible says?

 

[TomL]

Why would I, as you do, give up what the bible says?

Because

You not only argue about the addition of water baptism, but you argued based on the verse speaking of the verbal confession Jesus is lord

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

That is what you have been arguing; denying faith of itself is insufficient.

And you are still ignoring the many verses that state that if you believe, you will see life.

 

[Jim]

Because

You not only argue about the addition of water baptism, but you argued based on the verse speaking of the verbal confession Jesus is lord

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

That is what you have been arguing; denying faith of itself is insufficient.

And you are still ignoring the many verses that state that if you believe, you will see life.

You are so inept at reading comprehension, that continuing a discussion with you is a useless waste of energy.

 

[Administrator]

Ok let's take a chill pill and cool off.

 

[TomL]

You are so inept at reading comprehension, that continuing a discussion with you is a useless waste of energy.

The facts remain

You not only argue in favor of the addition of water baptism, but you had argued based on a verse speaking of the verbal confession "Jesus is lord"

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Now can you deny you had previously done so having stated?

"Of course, faith is necessary for salvation. But Romans 10:9-10 also logically states that confession with the mouth is necessary also. There is no other way to understand what is said there."

And while you did so previously you now try to ignore any addition to faith plus water baptism.

Adopting a rule you had criticized previously.

Finally

You are still ignoring the many verses that state that if you believe, you will see life.

Insulting me is just not a competent response.

 

[Jim]

The facts remain

Yeah facts do remain, but you don't seem to have them.

Insulting me is just not a competent response.

Ok, without the insult, continuing this discussion with you is a waste of energy. You accuse me of ignoring scripture, and yet it is you who is ignoring scripture and using really bad logic to justify it.

 

[TomL]

Yeah facts do remain, but you don't seem to have them.

Ok, without the insult, continuing this discussion with you is a waste of energy. You accuse me of ignoring scripture, and yet it is you who is ignoring scripture and using really bad logic to justify it.

Again let us see

I posted

The facts remain

You not only argue in favor of the addition of water baptism, but you had argued based on a verse speaking of the verbal confession "Jesus is lord"

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Now can you deny you had previously done so having stated?

"Of course, faith is necessary for salvation. But Romans 10:9-10 also logically states that confession with the mouth is necessary also. There is no other way to understand what is said there."

And while you did so previously you now try to ignore any addition to faith plus water baptism.

Adopting a rule you had criticized previously.

Finally

You are still ignoring the many verses that state that if you believe, you will see life.

In regard to that I previously posted many verses

John 6:47

Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

You have denied a number of those verses by claiming the faith only that is mentioned does not save

So who had ignored scripture and employed bad logic in first claiming the confession was necessary but then afterward denying it.

 

[Jim]

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Now can you deny you had previously done so having stated?

I do definitely believe Romans 10:9-10 to be true. I have never said it was not true. So bad that you do not believe it to be true.

 

[Obadiah]

I'm only concerned in what I believe. Whatever anyone else believes is on them.



The phrase "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" means you can provide someone with an opportunity or the resources for success, but you cannot force them to take advantage of it if they are unwilling. It signifies that while you can guide and offer help, the final action and decision to act must come from the individual themselves. The proverb originates from the 12th century.

 

[TomL]

I do definitely believe Romans 10:9-10 to be true. I have never said it was not true. So bad that you do not believe it to be true.

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Fine so as I argued

Your view should then be that to be saved you must believe, be baptized and verbally confess Jesus is lord.

Why did you deny such at one point?

Is there a verse that actually says such?

 

[Jim]

Your view should then be that to be saved you must believe, be baptized and verbally confess Jesus is lord.

Again, you keep arguing that I have stated what is necessary to be saved. I do not make the argument of what you must do to be saved. I make the argument that if you do such and such, according to what the bible says, then you will be saved. I do not and I have not, intentionally, ever stated what is necessary. I believe what is necessary is totally up to God, not me and not you.

I get it that you apparently do not perceive the distinction I make. Too bad.

 

[TomL]

Again, you keep arguing that I have stated what is necessary to be saved. I do not make the argument of what you must do to be saved. I make the argument that if you do such and such, according to what the bible says, then you will be saved. I do not and I have not, intentionally, ever stated what is necessary. I believe what is necessary is totally up to God, not me and not you.

I get it that you apparently do not perceive the distinction I make. Too bad.

In remarks regarding

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

These were your words

"Of course, faith is necessary for salvation. But Romans 10:9-10 also logically states that confession with the mouth is necessary also. There is no other way to understand what is said there."

Hello you own words refute what you currently post

Which fully justifies the following

Fine so as I argued

Your view should then be that to be saved you must believe, be baptized and verbally confess Jesus is lord.

How can you logically deny this?

Is there a verse that actually says such?