Daniel's 70 weeks and the Messiah
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DavidTree
Well-known member
Correct.
Therefore God wrote His word at grade school school level grammar = easy for children to understand = not easy for adults.
Agreed
LOL
Diserner
Well-known member
I love you brother, I appreciate you, but I'm just not seeing that there, it doesn't fit.
Watch this short video: sacrifices will cease
Rockson
Well-known member
Thanks I viewed your clip.....as I said seems to me the verse in Dan 9 is talking about Christ, Daniel 11+12 seem to be talking about other Roman leaders shortly after Christ but some might be talking about a future anti-Christ in our day and age. I'm just wondering if a Daniel 70th week has to be connected to our time.....but you can still have an anti Christ type in our day but without the 7 year spec. I'm committed to keep studying it out and thinking about it in future days.
Diserner
Well-known member
1. Jesus does not set up the abomination in the wing of the temple.
2. Jesus did not make a covenant with "many" for "3.5" years, he made a covenant with 12 in one meal.
3. If I say "after 3 days I will die," I do not mean I will die 3 years later, I mean RIGHT after 3 days.
4. Jesus did not "stop" the sacrifices and offerings from being made, they went on for many years.
5. The last referenced person before the pronoun was "the prince to come" and not the Messiah.
6. These descriptions of a covenant with many that is broken midway through a period of 7 followed by an abomination that in the end brings destruction parallel all the other references to the end time man of sin.
There's really just no case at all for it, I don't get why people buy it.
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1 The idea of a gap is not only unnatural but it is against context. After 69 is 70
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, happened approximately in the year of our lord after the 69 sevens
No one have ever claimed Jesus sets up the abomination
Jesus made the sacrifices irrelevant by the offering of himself
No one stated anything about Jesus dying for 3 years. Irrelevant
The sacrifices were now irrelevant and obsolete
The grammar does not require the referent to be the closest named person
Daniel 9:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 ........................................................ and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
Happened in 70 A.D.
Tom, I agree with you brother.
@dizerner
Daniel 9:25- "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times."
* The specific starting point to begin counting time is the command to restore and build Jerusalem.
* The specific event to happen is the arrival of Messiah the Prince.
* The specific length of time is 7 weeks and 62 weeks. This is 69 weeks total, 7+62=69. This consisting of 483 years. 7 days x 69 weeks = 483 years
From the command to restore and build Jerusalem to Messiah the Prince is sixty nine weeks. This means sixty nine weeks shall have passed from the command to rebuild Jerusalem to when our Lord was revealed to Israel upon being anointed by the Holy Spirit (John 1:29-34).
Now that we understand that it took sixty nine of the seventy weeks unto the Messiah, we know it is at the beginning of the seventieth week our Lord began His ministry and died mid-week. This helps us to understand verses 26 and 27, that are an A-B/A-B parallelism. Parallelisms and bifidic styles are common in the Hebrew poetry of the Bible.
In an A-B/A-B parallelism, the ‘A’s have corresponding elements, as do the ‘B’s. The effect is likened to two different views of two different events.
(Dan 9:26)
A: And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
B: And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
(Dan 9:27)
A: Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
B: And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
The first half of each verse is describing the Messiah, while the second half of each verse is describing the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.
It is important to understand, it is in verse 24 the seventy weeks were determined for the Jewish people and their city of Jerusalem to fulfill six things: To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.
God Bless
Frank Russell
Well-known member
When the new heaven and new earth is revealed .. it will already be a new "week" since the incident in the garden.
Diserner
Well-known member
Here is where you take your big leap outside the text.
That's just not what it says.
The author is not so incompetent that he could not more precisely say the real time of death of the Messiah, the most important event.
IF the Messiah is cut off MID WEEK of the SEVENTIETH WEEK, then THAT is what the text should SAY.
Period.
NO, it's not "okay" to be literally half a week off in timing, and just ignore it like it never happened!
Diserner
Well-known member
So there is no gap between the 69th and & 70th week
I agree
BTW all this was to happen within the 70 weeks
Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
anything besides that did not need to happen in the 70 weeks
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Diserner
Well-known member
During the 70th week the Messiah is ALREADY cut off.
Here is how "your" version would read:
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks [REMOVED] the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. [ADDED: And Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;] And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." (Dan. 9:26-27 NKJ)
So how does that show there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week
Your argument does not seem to make much sense
messiah is cut off after (7 weeks + 62 weeks = 69 weeks) i.e. the 70th week
Daniel 9:26 (NASB 2020) — 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate.”
It seems to me you may be speculating verse 27 is an advancement of time beyond the 70 weeks
but that is all within the 70 weeks
Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
Christ being cutoff and making atonement is to transpire within the 70 weeks
Diserner
Well-known member
I didn't say it did.
Point being is, it is inescapable the text tells us Christ is ALREADY cut off during the 70th week.
WHENEVER it is, the text tells us Christ is ALREADY cut off.
One could argue it was the 7 years after Christ died, or a certain time period following Christ's death.
But it can't be DURING Christ's life, that violates the text.
I think we have reasons to think it may be future.
So?
It appears to be assumed verse 27 is speaking of something other than that the messiah is cut off in the 70 week
Daniel 9:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
That is obviously the 70th week and there is no gap in week 69 and 70 as it is after the 69 weeks messiah is cut off
He being the dominant figure of the passage - the messiah
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You are making assumptions that prophecy has to be given the way you think it must that you are missing it.
Did any of the Jews in the Lord's day think the Messiah was going to die? No.
Even the Disciples didn't believe Him when the Lord told them repeatedly He was going to die. Peter was even rebuked by the Lord.
The Jewish people had Isaiah 53 and they still did not grasp it was about the Messiah. There was nothing mentioned concisely that they could join the Messiah being the suffering servant too. There were hints but not plain language that said, the suffering servant is the Messiah who must come and be killed by wicked Jewish people through the pagan Romans, who then would be resurrected and then ascend to heaven to receive the Kingdom of God.
So, prophecy is not plain as day unless God wants it so.
The prophecy is clear.
- Sixty nine weeks pass to the Messiah
- If sixty nine weeks pass to the Messiah, the only week left is the seventieth.
- The Messiah dies "after" the sixty ninth week. What is after sixty nine? Seventy!
- So the Messiah dies in the seventieth week.
- We know the Lord died 3.5 years after He started His ministry; this means He died mid-week of the seventieth..
- When the Lord died what immediately happened to the veil of the temple? It was torn in two by the God. Why? Because the Lord's death put an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity, and brought in everlasting righteousness. The death of our Lord for our sin, put it to an end by His making the perfect sacrifice for them that no more offerings were needed. Because of His atoning death, we have peace with God and now anyone can approach God through faith in Jesus Christ and God will take up residence within him. Believers are given the gift of righteousness because of the Lord's perfect sacrificial death.
- All six things of verse 24 happened in the seventieth week, which the seventy weeks were all about.
God Bless
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SteveB
Well-known member
Ever read Sir Robert Anderson's
The Coming Prince
?
in it he describes this idea.
he uses the 69 weeks/sevens, a 360 day year, and gets 173880 days, which brings him into the Sunday that Jesus enters the city of Jerusalem on a donkey.
So, in fact, if he died a few days later, on the passover, then he began his ministry in the 69th week, somewhere just after the middle of the week/sevens.
Nope.
Not in the 70th.
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