Could it be happening now ?

EclipseEventSigns said:
Sure. One of the issues is that one chart can't possibly explain all the intricate parts that are going on. So I'll have to post more charts. But only 3 of many.

View attachment 235

The interpretation this chart represents meets the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.
1. The literal command/promise of God that Ezra lists occurred before any of the following decrees by earthly kings. It happened in 587 BC as Jeremiah records in Jer 32 & 33. Specifically using the key words "sub" and "bana" like Gabriel told Daniel to look for. He found this in Jeremiah 33:7. Jeremiah records 2 dates to tie this prophecy to a very specific year.

2. The word "dabar" used in the 70 Weeks prophecy in Daniel 9:24 refers to God's words, not a decree by a king. This is consistent with Daniel's usage of the word throughout his writings.

3. The text in the original Hebrew refers to two messiahs. In verse 25, the first is God's messiah, King Cyrus. As Isaiah records in Isaiah 44:24-28, 45:1-7. Then in verse 26, the second is the messiah who was "cut off", making a new covenant which is what the term means.

4. The first 7 Weeks have a very specific purpose. God made His promise that Jerusalem would be returned to and be rebuilt in 587 BC. 7 Weeks or 49 years later was 538 BC. That year, God's messiah, Cyrus, issued a decree allowing those very things. Does that mean Jerusalem was rebuilt starting that year? No. That's not what the text says. The rebuilding of the city would be done all through the 62 Weeks as the text states.

5. The text in the original Hebrew specifies 3 very distinct and separate groups of Weeks. But what no one has yet realized is that there are also gaps between the Weeks. 2 Gaps. And each Gap is itself a Group of Week. And unstated Group of Weeks. The first is 14 Weeks (or 98 years). The second is approaching 290 Weeks (or 2030) Weeks.

6. This interpretation addresses all of the reasons that Gabriel gave for the 70 Weeks. It's not about Christians. It's not about denominations. It's not about mystical meanings of the numbers. It's treats the text literally. The years are literal years. Not 360 "prophetic" years. The pattern ("vision") that Gabriel tells Daniel to understand provides for exact start and end for each of the 3 Groups of years.

That's how this interpretation meets the Challenge. I have yet to come across another interpretation that satisfies all these facts about the Prophecy.

The 62 Weeks. The start was in 440 BC. This is after the decree of Artaxerxes in his 20th year which is the only decree allowing for the rebuilding of the city and the walls by Nehemiah. But logistically, Nehemiah could not organize settlers, get the required wooden beams cut and delivered and make the long trek between April and late July of the same year. Impossible. Josephus agrees with this and records that Nehemiah arrived in Jerusalem in 440 BC. 434 years later is 6 BC - the birth of messiah Jesus. And "after" those 62 Weeks, He was cut off, Himself becoming the sacrifice of the New Covenant.

This chart doesn't illustrate the full picture of eschatology. So these next 2 charts need to be included. It would take lots more text to develop. That's why I make videos to explain it all. Check those out before responding that "I'm wrong".
View attachment 236View attachment 237
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I appreciate you posting your work here brother, much appreciated. I was a big eschatology advocate during the 80's and early 90's and pretty much aligned myself with DTS with Walvoord and Pentecost. So I'm just recently getting my interest back with the topic.

I have always focused and kept in mind/heart His immanent return, His 2nd Coming which I believe is an essential or core Christian doctrine.
 
civic said:
Do you think modern day Israel back in the land plays any role in end time events ?
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Not in any way that I can determine from the prophecies I have studied (which is not really extensive or in depth). I do not believe that the nation of Israel (physical Israel) is the subject of predictive prophecies past the first coming of Christ. I believe that spiritual Israel (the Church and the Messianic Jewish Congregation (which are the same thing)) is the subject of these prophecies.
 
Doug Brents said:
Not in any way that I can determine from the prophecies I have studied (which is not really extensive or in depth). I do not believe that the nation of Israel (physical Israel) is the subject of predictive prophecies past the first coming of Christ. I believe that spiritual Israel (the Church and the Messianic Jewish Congregation (which are the same thing)) is the subject of these prophecies.
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So all of Gods promised of the physical land of Israel no longer exist in Bible prophecy or in the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel 38-39 ?
 
civic said:
So all of Gods promised of the physical land of Israel no longer exist in Bible prophecy or in the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel 38-39 ?
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And why would modern Israel only get the promised blessings and not any of the promised curses?!

But it shall be, if thou do not hearken unto the voice of Yahweh thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes, which I am commanding thee, today, then shall come in upon thee all these curses, and shall reach thee:-- (Deut. 28:15 ROT)

They were based on the same covenant.
 
dizerner said:
And why would modern Israel only get the promised blessings and not any of the promised curses?!

But it shall be, if thou do not hearken unto the voice of Yahweh thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes, which I am commanding thee, today, then shall come in upon thee all these curses, and shall reach thee:-- (Deut. 28:15 ROT)

They were based on the same covenant.
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I agree and the whole purpose for the time of Jacobs trouble is for them to recognize Him whom they have pierced when He returns to wage war on all of their enemies at His 2nd Coming. See Zech 12.

This is still future.

A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’


6 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.


7 “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.


Mourning for the One They Pierced​

10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14 and all the rest of the clans and their wives.
:)
 
civic said:
Lots of theologians equate weeks with 1000 years. And even Days with 1000 years. Creation 7 days and 7000 years for mankind before the end. We are at 6000 now leaving 1000 for the millennium.
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Well, we know that's wrong because Peter knew nothing about a millennium. Also the "last day" occurred at the 2nd coming, so there's no more days after that, which means no millennium.
 
civic said:
So all of Gods promised of the physical land of Israel no longer exist in Bible prophecy or in the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel 38-39 ?
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I don't believe that those prophecies refer to the physical land. It is the spiritual land (Heaven) for which we earnestly look today. This Earth will be completely destroyed at the second coming (Matt 24:35, 2 Pet 3:10, Rev 21:1).
 
Here's a promise that Jesus gave to Israel: Therefore the kingdom will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. We the church are that kingdom, both Jew and Gentile. The focus should not be on the nation of Israel, as the Dispensationalists do, it should be on Jesus and His body, the church, both Jew and Gentile.
 
civic said:
I agree and the whole purpose for the time of Jacobs trouble is for them to recognize Him whom they have pierced when He returns to wage war on all of their enemies at His 2nd Coming. See Zech 12.
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It would seem to me then, logically, that any blessing upon Israel as a nation can only come from corporate repentance.

I still see them as a secular nation.

But perhaps they gain some favor from the patriarchs?!

Either way, I will surely pray for Israel!

I invite everyone to join in with my signature!
 
Romans 9
I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.

Romans 11
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.


7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”[d]

Ingrafted Branches​

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


All Israel Will Be Saved​

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
 
dizerner said:
It would seem to me then, logically, that any blessing upon Israel as a nation can only come from corporate repentance.

I still see them as a secular nation.

But perhaps they gain some favor from the patriarchs?!

Either way, I will surely pray for Israel!

I invite everyone to join in with my signature!
Click to expand...
see my last post especially how Paul makes a distinction between Gods plan for the Jews/Israel and the gentiles.
 
civic said:
see my last post especially how Paul makes a distinction between Gods plan for the Jews/Israel and the gentiles.
Click to expand...

God blessed Ishmael too.

Does that still apply?

And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers.
 
Doug Brents said:
I don't believe that those prophecies refer to the physical land. It is the spiritual land (Heaven) for which we earnestly look today. This Earth will be completely destroyed at the second coming (Matt 24:35, 2 Pet 3:10, Rev 21:1).
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We do know that God already gave Israel all the land that He promised He would.
Joshua 21:43 "So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it." 1 Kings 4:21 gives more detail on the land.
So the dispensationalists are wrong when they claim that Israel never got all the land that God promised them.
 
dwight92070 said:
Well, we know that's wrong because Peter knew nothing about a millennium. Also the "last day" occurred at the 2nd coming, so there's no more days after that, which means no millennium.
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Several times you've stated this. Not sure why someone hasn't pointed out the answer in the same part of II Peter you are referring to. Read all of II Peter 3:1-13. Peter is talking about the day of the Lord and the day of judgement and the day of God - all the same thing. Did you miss verse 8?

[2Pe 3:8 LSB] 8 But do not let this one [fact] escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Peter knew perfectly well that the Day of the Lord is not just the act of when Messiah returns. But the return means the entire period - the Sabbath Day. The 1000 year Day. With the final act in the existence of time to be the destruction of current universe.
 
EclipseEventSigns said:
Several times you've stated this. Not sure why someone hasn't pointed out the answer in the same part of II Peter you are referring to. Read all of II Peter 3:1-13. Peter is talking about the day of the Lord and the day of judgement and the day of God - all the same thing. Did you miss verse 8?

[2Pe 3:8 LSB] 8 But do not let this one [fact] escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Peter knew perfectly well that the Day of the Lord is not just the act of when Messiah returns. But the return means the entire period - the Sabbath Day. The 1000 year Day. With the final act in the existence of time to be the destruction of current universe.
Click to expand...
Yes a 1000 years means millennium
 

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