Could it be happening now ?

Below are all the uses in the N.T. on Jesus Appearing/ 2nd Coming. They are one in the same event that is still future and dismantles preterism.

Parousia- Coming


Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 2:19
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thessalonians 3:13
13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Epiphenia- Appearing

2 Thessalonians 2:8
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Timothy 6:14
14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Timothy 1:10
10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Timothy 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Timothy 4:8
8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

After Jesus ascended into heaven, the angels declared to the apostles, “‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven’” (Acts 1:11). Zechariah 14:4 identifies the location of the second coming as the Mount of Olives. Matthew 24:30 declares, “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.” Titus 2:13 describes the second coming as a “glorious appearing.”

The second coming is spoken of in greatest detail in Revelation 19:11-16, “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.”


hope this helps !!!
 
Millennialism is the belief in a literal reign of Christ on earth for 1,000 years in the future. The word millennium means “1,000 years”—from mille, the Latin word for “1,000,” and the word annus, Latin for “year.” (M is the Roman numeral for 1,000, it takes 1,000 millimeters to make a meter, 1,000 milliliters to make a liter, etc. A person’s per annum salary is their salary for one year.)

What is often referred to as the “millennial kingdom” is mentioned in Revelation 20:1–7:

“And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

“I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

“When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison” (emphasis added).

This period of 1,000 years is marked by a binding of Satan and the reign of Jesus Christ. When that period of 1,000 years is over, Satan will be released for a short period for a final period of rebellion before the final end of all things.

Much of Christian eschatology (teaching about the “last things”) is couched in terms of a particular view of the millennial kingdom and of when Christ returns in relation to the inauguration of that kingdom.


The postmillennial position interprets Revelation 20 somewhat figuratively and holds that this binding of Satan takes place through the preaching of the gospel and the advance of the church throughout the world. At some point, the world will become predominantly Christian, recognizing Jesus as Lord. Of course, not every individual will be saved, but the worldwide culture will be dominantly Christian, ushering in a golden age of human existence. This golden age will not be based on humanism but on the people and governments of the world making a conscious effort to order things according to the priorities of God’s Word. Christ, though physically absent, will be reigning through His people, and this “golden age” dominance of Christian culture may last for a literal 1,000 years, or that number may figuratively represent a long period of time. At the end, there will be a rebellion, and Christ will return to earth to quash it. The term postmillennial means that Christ will return at the end of the millennial kingdom.


The amillennial position teaches that there is no literal 1,000-year kingdom. The kingdom of God exists right now as Christ reigns as king in the hearts of His people, the church. Satan is bound now, meaning that he cannot prevent the advance of the gospel and the salvation of the elect, but he is still able to wreak havoc in many other areas. The “1,000 years” cannot be literal because it has already been almost 2,000 years since Christ was on earth. The Church may or may not finally “Christianize” the culture of all nations of the world, but the important thing is that the Church lives according to the priorities of God’s Word and proclaims Jesus as Lord. Christ will return one day to quash all rebellion and inaugurate the new heavens and new earth where there is no opportunity for any sin. The position is amillennial because it denies a literal, visible rule of Christ on earth before the new heavens and new earth, but it certainly does not deny the lordship of Christ or His sovereignty over all areas of life.


The premillennial position teaches that Christ will return to earth to inaugurate the millennial kingdom. Despite the best efforts of Christians to take the gospel to the ends of the earth, the world will never be “Christianized,” and culture will continue to grow worse and worse. However, Christ will come and establish His kingdom visibly on earth, and Satan will be bound—unable to have any impact on world affairs. The governments of the nations of the world will submit to Christ, and there will be a “golden age” of human existence. Truth and justice will be the hallmarks of government instead of the self-centeredness and corruption that is common today. However, because there will still be human beings with fallen natures inhabiting the kingdom, there will still be sin and rebellion. At the end of the literal 1,000-year period, Satan will be loosed, and there will be a final rebellion of humanity against Christ. The Lord will put down the rebellion once and for all and usher in a new heaven and new earth where there is no opportunity for any sin.


Those who are looking forward to a future kingdom of 1,000 years’ duration that begins with the return of Christ (premillennialists) are also often referred to as “millennialists.” The term millennialism was in use before the pre-, a-, and post- prefixes were added to the word. In older literature, the position that might be called “premillennialism” today would simply be called “millennialism.” This is the only position that holds to a literal 1,000-year kingdom inaugurated by Christ and characterized by His visible, earthly reign. got ?

hope this helps !!!
 
The Rapture—the sudden catching away of all believers in Jesus to heaven—is the initial event of the end times and hopefully the Rapture has not already happened or we're all in big trouble.:ROFLMAO:

I believe that at the occurrence of the Rapture, the prophetic trigger will have been pulled. That it's on Like Donkey Kong and there will be no stopping the series of end-time events that will happen.

I for one do not want to be part of the "Left behind" generation that will experience a series of cascading calamities unlike anything that's ever happened in human history. It will be a time of unparalleled trouble.

Jesus spoke of this terminal generation two millennia ago when He said, “Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” Matthew 24:33–34
 
Affinity said:
The Rapture—the sudden catching away of all believers in Jesus to heaven—is the initial event of the end times and hopefully the Rapture has not already happened or we're all in big trouble.:ROFLMAO:

I believe that at the occurrence of the Rapture, the prophetic trigger will have been pulled. That it's on Like Donkey Kong and there will be no stopping the series of end-time events that will happen.

I for one do not want to be part of the "Left behind" generation that will experience a series of cascading calamities unlike anything that's ever happened in human history. It will be a time of unparalleled trouble.

Jesus spoke of this terminal generation two millennia ago when He said, “Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” Matthew 24:33–34
Click to expand...

Maybe we need a rapture thread? I personally believe it is one of the weakest arguments made in Dispensationalism. Not that I don't believe Jesus is coming. I do. How in the world the doctrine of the "rapture" is constructed from the evidence is beyond me.
 
@synergy I copied this from the other thread over to here :) Let me know if you don't want it here.

  1. Baptism of Jesus is 27 AD, not 27 BC. I'm sure that's just a typo, no big deal.
  2. Not sure how 457 BC was derived? The Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England has the Jerusalem rebuild decree at 445 BC.
  3. Concerning the "69 weeks" span, it's not clear how many days in an OT year was used to compute the years? Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard used the Jewish Lunar/Solar year of 360 days/year to start at 445 BC which had him arrive at 32 AD, corresponding to Jesus' Royal Entry into Jerusalem.
  4. The 70th week will start with the ministry of Enoch and Elias (Rev 11:3)
  5. The 70th week midpoint is when the Anti-Christ gains unlimited power (Dan 9:27, 12:11; Rev 13:5; Matt 24:15).
  6. The "1260 Years" span (aka "3 1/2 times") is already accounted for in the second 3 1/2 years of the 70th week. (Dan 7:25,12:7)
  7. 2300 total of days and nights is when Antiochus Epiphanes replaced the Jewish Temple twice-daily offerings with pagan sacrifices. So it was the earthly sanctuary that was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes and needed cleansing, not the heavenly sanctuary (Dan 8:14). That desecration is a prefiguration of what the Anti-Christ will unleash on mankind.
Comments by anyone will be appreciated. I might start a new thread with this.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Maybe we need a rapture thread? I personally believe it is one of the weakest arguments made in Dispensationalism. Not that I don't believe Jesus is coming. I do. How in the world the doctrine of the "rapture" is constructed from the evidence is beyond me.
Click to expand...
Do you believe when Paul say we who are alive and remain will not precede those who have died ? That they will rise first and we who are alive will follow them to be with the Lord ?

Is this at or before His 2nd Coming in your view ?

1 Thess 4
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
 
civic said:
@synergy I copied this from the other thread over to here :) Let me know if you don't want it here.

  1. Baptism of Jesus is 27 AD, not 27 BC. I'm sure that's just a typo, no big deal.
  2. Not sure how 457 BC was derived? The Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England has the Jerusalem rebuild decree at 445 BC.
  3. Concerning the "69 weeks" span, it's not clear how many days in an OT year was used to compute the years? Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard used the Jewish Lunar/Solar year of 360 days/year to start at 445 BC which had him arrive at 32 AD, corresponding to Jesus' Royal Entry into Jerusalem.
  4. The 70th week will start with the ministry of Enoch and Elias (Rev 11:3)
  5. The 70th week midpoint is when the Anti-Christ gains unlimited power (Dan 9:27, 12:11; Rev 13:5; Matt 24:15).
  6. The "1260 Years" span (aka "3 1/2 times") is already accounted for in the second 3 1/2 years of the 70th week. (Dan 7:25,12:7)
  7. 2300 total of days and nights is when Antiochus Epiphanes replaced the Jewish Temple twice-daily offerings with pagan sacrifices. So it was the earthly sanctuary that was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes and needed cleansing, not the heavenly sanctuary (Dan 8:14). That desecration is a prefiguration of what the Anti-Christ will unleash on mankind.
Comments by anyone will be appreciated. I might start a new thread with this.
Click to expand...

The 70 weeks of Daniel has Messiah "being cut off"....

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

I can't help but believe this references the death of Jesus Christ and the resulting destruction of the temple later.
 
praise_yeshua said:
The 70 weeks of Daniel has Messiah "being cut off"....

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

I can't help but believe this references the death of Jesus Christ and the resulting destruction of the temple later.
Click to expand...
That occurred at week 69 or are you saying it happened at week 70 ?
 
civic said:
Do you believe when Paul say we who are alive and remain will not precede those who have died ? That they will rise first and we who are alive will follow them to be with the Lord ?

Is this at or before His 2nd Coming in your view ?

1 Thess 4
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Click to expand...

Yes. I generally believe it references the Resurrection of the Saints at the second coming. However, I do leave room for other possibilities. The reason I do this is because there is some uncertainty in all of this. I've often desired to know what Paul taught those at Thessalonica. We only have a small portion recorded. My primary issue with the Rapture teaching is the certainty that most people display with the teaching.
 
civic said:
@synergy I copied this from the other thread over to here :) Let me know if you don't want it here.

  1. Baptism of Jesus is 27 AD, not 27 BC. I'm sure that's just a typo, no big deal.
  2. Not sure how 457 BC was derived? The Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England has the Jerusalem rebuild decree at 445 BC.
  3. Concerning the "69 weeks" span, it's not clear how many days in an OT year was used to compute the years? Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard used the Jewish Lunar/Solar year of 360 days/year to start at 445 BC which had him arrive at 32 AD, corresponding to Jesus' Royal Entry into Jerusalem.
  4. The 70th week will start with the ministry of Enoch and Elias (Rev 11:3)
  5. The 70th week midpoint is when the Anti-Christ gains unlimited power (Dan 9:27, 12:11; Rev 13:5; Matt 24:15).
  6. The "1260 Years" span (aka "3 1/2 times") is already accounted for in the second 3 1/2 years of the 70th week. (Dan 7:25,12:7)
  7. 2300 total of days and nights is when Antiochus Epiphanes replaced the Jewish Temple twice-daily offerings with pagan sacrifices. So it was the earthly sanctuary that was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes and needed cleansing, not the heavenly sanctuary (Dan 8:14). That desecration is a prefiguration of what the Anti-Christ will unleash on mankind.
Comments by anyone will be appreciated. I might start a new thread with this.
Click to expand...
The first 3 points is in reference to the chart that @Brakelite uploaded in his post.
 
civic said:
Where would you differ in this chart outside of where they place the rapture ? Thanks

Biblical Research Studies Group-The 70 Week's of Daniel-Chart

www.biblicalresearch.info
Click to expand...

First, I must say that Daniel is a complex book. The LXX edition is dramatically different. There is a good chance that there has been a mixing of information between various editions of Daniel over the centuries. I'm not 100 percent certain if what is related in chapter 9 is completely 100 percent accurate.... Now that I've said that.....

There is absolute confidence in the 69 weeks though timing may vary. I believe there is enough possible variance in the timing to see week 70 in the first century. (most of the events). I do not see the evidence for a "church age" standing between the last week.
 

dizerner said:
NO, TODAY MAY NOT FINISH—LIVE LIKE IT'S RIGHT NOW!
Click to expand...
Then some would say you have to go back before right now, back to back then. Some say (JW) that Jesus really came back in 1914 in the heavens. You just can't see him. But they didn't believe he would be invisible before 1914 but changed to their new understanding at 14.

But the charts that Russel made were like many charts of things today.....very complex, making one seem every claim he made about them was obvious and true. What comes to my mind is Jesus warning of those who would say he would come back in some secret place. Mt 24: 26 JW's would say, "Oh he's here alright! Some secret place in the sky! Where abouts we don't know!"
 
civic said:
View attachment 234
Click to expand...
There's so many problems with that chart, where the Rapture is placed is the least of those issues.
1. The title "The Jewish Calendar". Huh? How is that even a calendar?
2. 536 BC as the start of the 70 Weeks? Did anyone even check the math? 536 BC - 483 years = 53 BC. Not 30 AD.
3. capital "Messiah" which is not according to the original Hebrew text
4. combines 7 Weeks with 62 Weeks. What was the purpose of the 7 Weeks?
5. 30 AD is said to be the crucifixion. That's impossible from the information in the New Testament narrative. It was actually April 25, 31 AD.
6. The last 1 Week is labled "the tribulation". In actual fact, the mid point of those 7 years is the start of the Great Tribulation.
7. The last 1 Week is labled "the Revelation of Christ". Actually, the Revelation of Messiah Jesus began with the 7 letters to the Churches in John's day. The entire period of the Church should be included.

This chart does not meet the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.
 
Peter obviously knows nothing about a 1000 year time period after the 2nd coming. So why should we assume that there is one?
 
Last edited:
EclipseEventSigns said:
There's so many problems with that chart, where the Rapture is placed is the least of those issues.
1. The title "The Jewish Calendar". Huh? How is that even a calendar?
2. 536 BC as the start of the 70 Weeks? Did anyone even check the math? 536 BC - 483 years = 53 BC. Not 30 AD.
3. capital "Messiah" which is not according to the original Hebrew text
4. combines 7 Weeks with 62 Weeks. What was the purpose of the 7 Weeks?
5. 30 AD is said to be the crucifixion. That's impossible from the information in the New Testament narrative. It was actually April 25, 31 AD.
6. The last 1 Week is labled "the tribulation". In actual fact, the mid point of those 7 years is the start of the Great Tribulation.
7. The last 1 Week is labled "the Revelation of Christ". Actually, the Revelation of Messiah Jesus began with the 7 letters to the Churches in John's day. The entire period of the Church should be included.

This chart does not meet the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.
Click to expand...
Can you post a chart that lines up with the above ? Thanks
 
Rockson said:
Then some would say you have to go back before right now, back to back then. Some say (JW) that Jesus really came back in 1914 in the heavens. You just can't see him. But they didn't believe he would be invisible before 1914 but changed to their new understanding at 14.
Click to expand...

Well, I live like it's tomorrow so I can a good night's rest.

Good sleep is important!
 

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