Could it be happening now ?

[Studyman]

Don't you see Praise Yeshua? We are this world's religious men with this world's religious philosophy.

Then we do agree on a few things. That's a start. The first step is always to admit the problem. But the God "of the Bible" is faithful, "if" you turn to Him with all your heart. Just as HE is to Israel.

Rom. 11: 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Studyman is above that, so if we disagree with him, he is being persecuted and shamed.

It's God's Word that your posts show you disagree with. I am just the poor slob who showed them to you. Your reaction is perfectly normal.

We only use this world's religious definitions, but Studyman is the ONLY one on this forum who is really interested in what the Holy Scriptures teach.

Well that's not true. Just because you aren't interested, doesn't mean others on this forum aren't interested. I would consider consulting the Scriptures even now. "Eph. 4: 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:"

We are part of the "many" who come in Christ's name, into the world that God placed him in that don't believe his words.

Why do you call the Jesus of the Bible Lord, Lord, but don't believe in His Words? Didn't the Jesus of the Bible teach against such behavior?

Jesus told him to "take heed" of men like us, just like Jesus told him that the 7th day was His Sabbath, even though He never said that in the Bible.

I never really thought "YOU" were one of the many deceivers Jesus said comes in Christ's Name. Although I might have to rethink this given this post of yours. I simply posted the Christ's Words so that both you and I might both "Take Heed" of the "many" who come in Christ's Name.

As for the Sabbath of the Christ, I don't come to that conclusion based on the imagination of my mind, or the Pope or Kenneth Copeland, or any of this world's preachers, rather, by what the Scriptures actually say. I also believe these same words can be found in your own Bible, assuming you have one.

Lev. 23: 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Col. 1: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Matt. 12: 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

So in your religion is this not all the same LORD? The Holy One of Israel? The Rock that fed and watered them who became Flesh? And if not, then who became Flesh?

 

[Studyman]

And here's how it happened that I don't keep the Sabbath:

In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Heb. 8:13 NKJ)

A covenant is an agreement or treaty between two or more consenting parties. A Law is "Direction, instruction"? A covenant is not a Law. How is it men imply that the 10 Commandments is the covenant that vanished, when God said HE writen them on the minds and hearts of His People?

According to the God of the Bible, it wasn't the "covenant" that is written on the hearts of God's People, it was His Law.

And why would God make an agreement with His People in which HIS LAWs are written on their minds and hearts? This would be so they wouldn't forget them, Yes? For the express purpose of making sure they didn't "vanish", as they did in times past.

So in the Agreement that God had with them, that HE prophesied to change, How were God's Laws received? Through a Priesthood Covenant "after the Order of Aaron" right?

So if the manner in which God's Laws are received changed, from being delivered by Levite Priests, to being delivered by God straight to the minds and hearts of His People, then it isn't the "Laws" that vanished, accord to God, but it was the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron" that vanished. Which is certainly appropriate given the Priests of the Old Priesthood corrupted God's Priesthood and had departed out of the way.

Isn't this what the Spirit of Christ on Malichi tells us?

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Isn't this what the Hebrews author is talking about?

Heb. 8: 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (This would be Priests that corrupted the old covenant, Yes) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

How is God's Law regarding His Sabbath Commandment, or His Commandment regarding adultery, or His Commandment regarding stealing even touched or influenced by any of this?

If anything, God's Commandments would be more steadfast and honored by those who honor Him and who are His People. Not "Vanished".

 

[Azriel]

The Rapture is the next event on God’s prophetic timetable. It’s the promise of the Lord that one day He will come and receive us unto Himself before the Tribulation begins on the earth. It’s the blessed hope, the great expectation of every Christian.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The Rapture is the next event on God’s prophetic timetable. It’s the promise of the Lord that one day He will come and receive us unto Himself before the Tribulation begins on the earth. It’s the blessed hope, the great expectation of every Christian.

We will have tribulation. We are not appointed to wrath. They're not the same thing. Anyone who expects to be raptured out of tribulation is promoting us to go AWOL in times of trouble and insults the great martyrs who suffered.

 

[Azriel]

We will have tribulation. We are not appointed to wrath. They're not the same thing. Anyone who expects to be raptured out of tribulation is promoting us to go AWOL in times of trouble and insults the great martyrs who suffered.

The Rapture will began with the coming of Jesus Christ from heaven. He will not send an angel, Moses, Elijah, or King David. Jesus Himself will come to get His people just as He promised. He will come with a commanding shout, the voice of the archangel, and the trumpet of God.

These sounds will be inaudible to those not saved living on earth, yet they served as a clarion call to gather all believers to meet the Lord in the air. When Jesus returns at the Rapture, He will remain hidden to people on earth. no one on earth will see Him. He does not come all the way to earth but will remain in the air and we as His followers will be caught up “in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The Rapture starts when Jesus comes from heaven to gather His people from the earth to bring them to heaven.

 

[dwight92070]

A covenant is an agreement or treaty between two or more consenting parties. A Law is "Direction, instruction"? A covenant is not a Law. How is it men imply that the 10 Commandments is the covenant that vanished, when God said HE writen them on the minds and hearts of His People?

According to the God of the Bible, it wasn't the "covenant" that is written on the hearts of God's People, it was His Law.

And why would God make an agreement with His People in which HIS LAWs are written on their minds and hearts? This would be so they wouldn't forget them, Yes? For the express purpose of making sure they didn't "vanish", as they did in times past.

So in the Agreement that God had with them, that HE prophesied to change, How were God's Laws received? Through a Priesthood Covenant "after the Order of Aaron" right?

So if the manner in which God's Laws are received changed, from being delivered by Levite Priests, to being delivered by God straight to the minds and hearts of His People, then it isn't the "Laws" that vanished, accord to God, but it was the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron" that vanished. Which is certainly appropriate given the Priests of the Old Priesthood corrupted God's Priesthood and had departed out of the way.

Isn't this what the Spirit of Christ on Malichi tells us?

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Isn't this what the Hebrews author is talking about?

Heb. 8: 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (This would be Priests that corrupted the old covenant, Yes) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

How is God's Law regarding His Sabbath Commandment, or His Commandment regarding adultery, or His Commandment regarding stealing even touched or influenced by any of this?

If anything, God's Commandments would be more steadfast and honored by those who honor Him and who are His People. Not "Vanished".

In your religion, you assume that the Lord in the Old Testament is the same Lord Jesus in the New Testament. In one sense, you might say that, because both are God, but the Lord Jesus, the Son of God didn't appear on the scene until He was born of a virgin. Prior to that, John 1:1 tells us He was called the Word. The Lord in the Old Testament refers to God the Father, so the feasts of the Lord, and the Sabbath of the Lord are not references to Jesus' feasts or Jesus' Sabbath but to the feasts of the Father and Sabbaths of the Father. It was not Jesus, the Son of God, who gave Israel their Law, it was God the Father.

Technically, a covenant and a law are not the same, but the Old Covenant consists of 613 laws, so when we refer to the Old Covenant, we are usually speaking of the laws. But maybe in your man-made religion that's not the case, but if you have a Bible, you would see that the terms are often used interchangeably. Your religion mistakenly teaches that the Laws God, under the New Covenant, wrote on our hearts are the Laws of Moses. Not true. If that were the case, then all Christians would be keeping the feasts of Israel, the dietary laws of Israel, circumcising our first born males, keeping the Sabbath, observing New moons - basically attempting to keep all 613 commandments. God said that the New Covenant was NOT LIKE the Old Covenant - the laws were not the same, except for some moral laws that Jesus made sure were repeated in the New Covenant. In Jesus' great commission in Matthew 28:20, He commanded us to teach disciples, NOT the Law of Moses, but "all that I commanded you". So we were never commanded by Jesus to teach disciples to observe the Sabbath, unlike your religion, which is worldly philosophy. If the Laws of the Old Covenant have not vanished, as your religion teaches, then all Christians would be attempting to keep the 613 commands, which is not the case, and rightfully so. Jesus never commanded us to obey the Laws of Moses, only His commands.

Hebrews 8:7-8 speaks of a faulty Old Covenant, not corrupt priests, which is your worldly philosophy. So in your keeping of the commandments, do you advocate circumcising the first born male of each family? If you have a married man among you who dies without children, do you follow the law and tell his brother that the Law commands him to marry the widow? Since the law allows slaves, do you think it's okay to own slaves?
Hebrews 8:13 says the Law of Moses is obsolete, but for some reason, your religion doesn't believe that or accept that?

 

[Doug Brents]

I see what you're saying, and you too could be correct. But what about these two issues?:
Peter said that the earth would be burned up on the day of the Lord, which we know is the 2nd coming of Christ. So if the earth is burned up, how could there be 1000 more years on the earth? Also I think Peter would have definitely mentioned the literal 1000 year period before the heavens and the earth were burned, if it was factual.

I don't believe that the 1000 years will be on Earth; they will be in Heaven. The 1000 years (not a literal time period, but a very, very long time (It will be after the destruction of time itself, so time will be meaningless)) will be, I believe, the wedding celebration between the Church (the bride) and Christ (the groom). The righteous dead (and the righteous living) will be raised to Heaven with Christ, but the evil dead (I believe all the evil ones will die in the destruction of creation) will not be raised until after the wedding celebration is over. Then they will be raised and Judged, and then the evil ones will be sent to Hell for eternity, and the righteous will then inhabit the newly created New heaven and New Earth.

Jesus said that His 2nd coming would be the "last day" and it wouldn't make sense that He was speaking symbolically here, because He said, "And I Myself will raise him up on the last day" - nothing symbolic there. So if the 2nd coming is, in fact, the last day, then there cannot be 1000 years after that.

The last day of this Earth will be the last day of "Time", but eternity (timelessness) will continue for all those who are righteous. It will also continue for those who are evil, but they will not want it to continue.

 

[Rockson]

I don't believe that the 1000 years will be on Earth; they will be in Heaven. The 1000 years (not a literal time period, but a very, very long time (It will be after the destruction of time itself, so time will be meaningless))

I'm not sure how that could make sense. You say it will be a very, very long time but then add it will be after the destruction of time itself. How could you have long time but no time?

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm not sure how that could make sense. You say it will be a very, very long time but then add it will be after the destruction of time itself. How could you have long time but no time?

Mankind cannot comprehend existence without time. So when I speak of eternity I put it in terms of "time". This Earth has only existed about 6000 years, by my count we are in the year 5926 since Creation. So a thousand year celebration would, in comparison, be a very long time (1/6th the age of creation so far). I do not know how we will perceive the passage of time in Heaven, or even if we will perceive it. I do believe there will be something to measure it against, because Job speaks of "a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord" (Job 1:6), which to me indicates that there will be a structure/schedule by which events are put into order or regulated. But I also believe that time is part of creation, so it will cease when creation is destroyed at the second coming. It may also be part of the New Earth, but there is nothing that says one way or the other.

 

[Studyman]

In your religion, you assume that the Lord in the Old Testament is the same Lord Jesus in the New Testament.

Yes, I believe that God sent His Son to create all things, and to become a man in the person of Jesus. Not because I heard this from one of this world's popular preachers, or a u-tube video, but because the Scriptures teach as much. I will post just a few of them, there are volumes more.

Is. 48: 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, "hath sent me". 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

John 6: 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, "I am".

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The Pharisees didn't believe Jesus was this same Rock either. But clearly HE was. So yes, in my belief, This God, the Holy One of Israel, the WORD of God, became Flesh in the person of Jesus.

So here we are again. You making a religious claim, promoting a religious philosophy, and the Scriptures, not me, exposing it as untrue.

And shall I not point this out in God's Love, even if it "offends you"?

Technically, a covenant and a law are not the same, but the Old Covenant consists of 613 laws, so when we refer to the Old Covenant, we are usually speaking of the laws. But maybe in your man-made religion that's not the case, but if you have a Bible, you would see that the terms are often used interchangeably.

Where in the Bible do you find the religious philosophy that God placed 613 laws on the necks of His People? Here again, someone told you something, and you drink it up, just like Eve did. I have seen this deceiving internet claim that was created to make God look like a Tyrant, which is the foundation of many of this world's religions, including the one you have adopted and are now promoting.

In one place in this religious claim, there is a Law of God which says, "Thou shall not look on the nakedness of thy kin". And God goes on the define "kin". Mother, mother in law, sister, and so one. And these deceivers, to make it look like God placed an unbearable Yoke on the necks of those who trusted Him, promote that this one law, is "20". This and other deceptive tactics are used in this popular religious claim.

It would be the same as a country having a speed limit of 55 miles per hour, "One Law", and then going to say, "thou shall not drive 60 mph," "thou shall not drive 65 mph," "thou shall not drive 70 mph," "thou shall not drive 75 mph," "thou shall not drive 80 mph," "thou shall not drive 85 mph," "thou shall not drive 90 mph," "thou shall not drive 95 mph," "thou shall not drive 100 mph," and then declare that the Country has burdened its citizens by placing on their necks, ") "10" Speed Limit Laws.

But you have adopted this falsehood also as somehow true and have incorporated it into the religion you are now promoting to others.

When the Truth is, God never placed 613 Laws on the necks of even ONE person EVER, in the history of the Bible.

This is the stuff Jesus warned about when He told me to "Take Heed" of deceivers who come in His Name.

Shall I not point this stuff out to the brethren?

Now it is foolish for me to continue with such a religion, because even though the Scriptures posted bring direct question to this religion you have adopted and are now promoting, you don't seem to care.

While that is sad, it is not my doing.

 

[Rockson]

Mankind cannot comprehend existence without time.

I agree we can't. There are things we can understand about time perceptions being different when it comes to Einstein's' relativity, and although I'd like to....I won't get into that.

 

[praise_yeshua]

As I said, I am interested in what the Holy Scriptures teach, not this world's religious philosophy.

Rom. 11: 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

But "many" who come in Christ's Name, in the world God placed me in, don't believe these words. The Jesus "of the bible" told me to "Take Heed" of these men.

So when were you cut off? You haven't continued in his goodness.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You know what our conversation was, and anyone can go to the thread and see what was written. You don't want to talk about what was discussed in an honest way, that is fine.

You can quote me.

 

[dwight92070]

I don't believe that the 1000 years will be on Earth; they will be in Heaven. The 1000 years (not a literal time period, but a very, very long time (It will be after the destruction of time itself, so time will be meaningless)) will be, I believe, the wedding celebration between the Church (the bride) and Christ (the groom). The righteous dead (and the righteous living) will be raised to Heaven with Christ, but the evil dead (I believe all the evil ones will die in the destruction of creation) will not be raised until after the wedding celebration is over. Then they will be raised and Judged, and then the evil ones will be sent to Hell for eternity, and the righteous will then inhabit the newly created New heaven and New Earth.

The last day of this Earth will be the last day of "Time", but eternity (timelessness) will continue for all those who are righteous. It will also continue for those who are evil, but they will not want it to continue.

Jesus and Paul both said that the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised at the same time, in fact Jesus called it "an hour".

John 5:28-29: "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

Acts 24:15 " ... having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Also Matthew 25:31-46 also tells us that both the righteous and the unrighteous will be judged at the same time - here on earth.

Also Revelation 20 seems to be occurring here on earth. Verse 1: "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, ..." Verses 7 and 8: " ... Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth.

Do you have any scripture that tells us the 1000 years will be in heaven? I can't think of any.

 

[Doug Brents]

Jesus and Paul both said that the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised at the same time, in fact Jesus called it "an hour".

John 5:28-29: "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

Acts 24:15 " ... having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Yes, these do seem to be saying that the resurrection of all (good and evil) occur at the same time. But I believe that even thought it is mostly symbolic language, Rev 20 gives us more information. Rev 20:5 says that the good were resurrected before, but the evil were not resurrected until after, the 1000 years. Now, if there is no "time" then these can in fact occur at the same "hour" because an day is like 1000 years and a 1000 years like a day with God.

Also Matthew 25:31-46 also tells us that both the righteous and the unrighteous will be judged at the same time - here on earth.

Where in Matt 25 does it say that the Judgement will occur "here on earth"? I don't see it in any translation that I can find.

Also Revelation 20 seems to be occurring here on earth. Verse 1: "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, ..." Verses 7 and 8: " ... Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth.

Do you have any scripture that tells us the 1000 years will be in heaven? I can't think of any.

Rev 19-20 tells us that the Judgement will occur after the 1000 years, and the 1000 years occurs after the 2nd coming, and the Earth and all creation will be destroyed completely at the second coming according to 2 Pet 3:10. So there will be events that occur between the first resurrection (the good) and the second resurrection (the evil). Rev 20:5 says that the resurrection of the good will be the "first resurrection", and that the second death will not touch those who are part of the first resurrection (Rev 20:6). For there to be a "first resurrection" there will then be a "second resurrection", and I believe this occurs when Satan is released in Rev 20:7. These are the nations and multitude that Satan has already deceived and will continue to deceive, but they will all be judged and sent to the Lake of Fire (which is Hell) for eternity.

Again, this is all what I gather out of Scripture. I do not claim to be an authority, nor do I think I have it all figured out. This is just the best I can come up with based on many points of Scripture that all pull the mirror a different way, making the final image we see blurry and indistinct (I believe deliberately by God, so that we won't know all the answers until we see them at that time).

 

[Studyman]

So when were you cut off? You haven't continued in his goodness.

The mainstream preachers of David and Jesus and Paul's time also judged those whose refuge was the Lord, in the exact same way as you do. Both Paul and David, as well as the Jesus "of the Bible", described them in great detail.

Your unbelief in these Scriptures does not make them Void, in my view.

 

[dwight92070]

The mainstream preachers of David and Jesus and Paul's time also judged those whose refuge was the Lord, in the exact same way as you do. Both Paul and David, as well as the Jesus "of the Bible", described them in great detail.

Your unbelief in these Scriptures does not make them Void, in my view.

Yes, I believe that God sent His Son to create all things, and to become a man in the person of Jesus. Not because I heard this from one of this world's popular preachers, or a u-tube video, but because the Scriptures teach as much. I will post just a few of them, there are volumes more.

Is. 48: 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, "hath sent me". 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

John 6: 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, "I am".

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The Pharisees didn't believe Jesus was this same Rock either. But clearly HE was. So yes, in my belief, This God, the Holy One of Israel, the WORD of God, became Flesh in the person of Jesus.

So here we are again. You making a religious claim, promoting a religious philosophy, and the Scriptures, not me, exposing it as untrue.

And shall I not point this out in God's Love, even if it "offends you"?



Where in the Bible do you find the religious philosophy that God placed 613 laws on the necks of His People? Here again, someone told you something, and you drink it up, just like Eve did. I have seen this deceiving internet claim that was created to make God look like a Tyrant, which is the foundation of many of this world's religions, including the one you have adopted and are now promoting.

In one place in this religious claim, there is a Law of God which says, "Thou shall not look on the nakedness of thy kin". And God goes on the define "kin". Mother, mother in law, sister, and so one. And these deceivers, to make it look like God placed an unbearable Yoke on the necks of those who trusted Him, promote that this one law, is "20". This and other deceptive tactics are used in this popular religious claim.

It would be the same as a country having a speed limit of 55 miles per hour, "One Law", and then going to say, "thou shall not drive 60 mph," "thou shall not drive 65 mph," "thou shall not drive 70 mph," "thou shall not drive 75 mph," "thou shall not drive 80 mph," "thou shall not drive 85 mph," "thou shall not drive 90 mph," "thou shall not drive 95 mph," "thou shall not drive 100 mph," and then declare that the Country has burdened its citizens by placing on their necks, ") "10" Speed Limit Laws.

But you have adopted this falsehood also as somehow true and have incorporated it into the religion you are now promoting to others.

When the Truth is, God never placed 613 Laws on the necks of even ONE person EVER, in the history of the Bible.

This is the stuff Jesus warned about when He told me to "Take Heed" of deceivers who come in His Name.

Shall I not point this stuff out to the brethren?

Now it is foolish for me to continue with such a religion, because even though the Scriptures posted bring direct question to this religion you have adopted and are now promoting, you don't seem to care.

While that is sad, it is not my doing.

You love the phrases: Your religion, a popular religious claim, a religious philosophy, this world's religions, the religion you are now promoting, this religion you have adopted, etc. So by using these phrases you're admitting that you have a different religion from me, simply because I do not agree with you. You know, I disagree with several people on this forum. But I would not condemn them for having a different religion other than Christianity. I would not condemn them for following this world's religious philosophy. I would not condemn them as deceivers who listen to the voice of the serpent, as Eve did. Rather, I would try to tell them what the Bible does, the truth. You have condemned me for supposedly following this world's popular, religious claims and philosophy and for listening to the serpent's voice. I have done none of that. If you want to disagree with me - have at it, as many here have done - but stop your snide, demeaning, condemnation of me, as if I was an evil, false prophet, attempting to send people to hell.

Again, your abrasive, condemning attitude towards this Christian, puts off a foul aroma (2 Corinthian 2:15-16) and simply identifies your doctrine as not something to be followed. You accuse me of not caring. You are right, I do not care for your bad attitude, nor for your bad doctrine.

I prefer to call myself a follower of Jesus, the religion I espouse is Christianity. Since you have a different religion than I, you must have a religion that is not Christianity. What religion do espouse? I have found that many who think they have a different religion than I do are often a member of a cult - Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Christian Science, Armstrongism, etc. These cults and those who believe them are right in saying that they have a different religion than I do, because they are not Biblical Christianity.

Here's an interesting concept: you can actually count the number of commandments in the Law. There are lists of all 613 online. There are 2 in Genesis, 110 in Exodus, 243 in Leviticus, 58 in numbers, and 200 in Deuteronomy. That totals 613! Surprise! Is it possible that 1 law is counted as 10? Maybe, I have not gone through the whole list.

However I did look at Leviticus 18 about uncovering the nakedness of any blood relative, about which you wrote. God didn't leave it up to the Israelites to define "any blood relative". He specified exactly who they were, whose nakedness the Israelite's should not uncover. And yes, each separate individual named was counted as a separate law. So God Himself was responsible for what you call "a deceptive tactic". How dare He give a separate commandment for each of the blood relatives? Apparently, according to your religion, God is a Tyrant for placing an unbearable yoke on the necks of the Israelites. According to those who follow Jesus, Christians, God makes His commandments so clear, that there can be no excuse for the Israelites violating them. By the way, there are close to 1050 commandments in the New Testament. Is Jesus placing an unbearable yoke on those of us who follow Him? No, I don't think so.

And yes, I DO PROMOTE the religion of the New Testament called Christianity, which is comprised of the disciples of Jesus. What religion do you promote? So, once again, your religion is exposed as untrue, and your claim found to be false by the Scriptures themselves?

 

[dwight92070]

Yes, these do seem to be saying that the resurrection of all (good and evil) occur at the same time. But I believe that even thought it is mostly symbolic language, Rev 20 gives us more information. Rev 20:5 says that the good were resurrected before, but the evil were not resurrected until after, the 1000 years. Now, if there is no "time" then these can in fact occur at the same "hour" because an day is like 1000 years and a 1000 years like a day with God.

Where in Matt 25 does it say that the Judgement will occur "here on earth"? I don't see it in any translation that I can find.

Rev 19-20 tells us that the Judgement will occur after the 1000 years, and the 1000 years occurs after the 2nd coming, and the Earth and all creation will be destroyed completely at the second coming according to 2 Pet 3:10. So there will be events that occur between the first resurrection (the good) and the second resurrection (the evil). Rev 20:5 says that the resurrection of the good will be the "first resurrection", and that the second death will not touch those who are part of the first resurrection (Rev 20:6). For there to be a "first resurrection" there will then be a "second resurrection", and I believe this occurs when Satan is released in Rev 20:7. These are the nations and multitude that Satan has already deceived and will continue to deceive, but they will all be judged and sent to the Lake of Fire (which is Hell) for eternity.

Again, this is all what I gather out of Scripture. I do not claim to be an authority, nor do I think I have it all figured out. This is just the best I can come up with based on many points of Scripture that all pull the mirror a different way, making the final image we see blurry and indistinct (I believe deliberately by God, so that we won't know all the answers until we see them at that time).

Doug, Matthew 25:31 says "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him ..." This is the 2nd coming to earth. Compare with 2 Thessalonians 1:7 " ... when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire." This is the same event, the 2nd coming to earth, when the Lord will come in the clouds. Then He will sit on His glorious throne - apparently this will be a throne in the clouds, but He sits for judgment in Matthew 25:32. The flaming fire in 2 Thess. also speaks of judgment.
Shortly after the judgment, the earth is destroyed by fire, so the Lord and all of us will most likely still be in the clouds while this earth is burned up and a new heaven and a new earth are created. After that we can descend with the Lord to the new earth forever.

Revelation 20:4-6 I'll have to get back with you on this. I have to leave right now.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The mainstream preachers of David and Jesus and Paul's time also judged those whose refuge was the Lord, in the exact same way as you do. Both Paul and David, as well as the Jesus "of the Bible", described them in great detail.

Your unbelief in these Scriptures does not make them Void, in my view.

David had a man killed to get to a women and the resulting son ruled Israel.

Grace is in view. Mercy is in view. The Scriptures teach Grace and Mercy from God.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug, Matthew 25:31 says "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him ..." This is the 2nd coming to earth. Compare with 2 Thessalonians 1:7 " ... when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire." This is the same event, the 2nd coming to earth, when the Lord will come in the clouds. Then He will sit on His glorious throne - apparently this will be a throne in the clouds, but He sits for judgment in Matthew 25:32. The flaming fire in 2 Thess. also speaks of judgment.
Shortly after the judgment, the earth is destroyed by fire, so the Lord and all of us will most likely still be in the clouds while this earth is burned up and a new heaven and a new earth are created. After that we can descend with the Lord to the new earth forever.

Revelation 20:4-6 I'll have to get back with you on this. I have to leave right now.

I agree that Matt 25:31 and 2 Thes 1:7-8 are talking about the second coming. But Rev 19:11 and following gives a little more detail and more of a timeline for these events. Jesus returns to Earth to take the righteous from the Earth, but He does not take the evil ones (Rev 20:5). Matt 25:32 occurs after the 1000 years. There is no time gap between Matt 25: 31 and 32, but there is a gap noted between Jesus second coming and the Judgement in Rev 19 and 20. It is like us talking about the invasion of Normandy and the taking of Berlin. We can say, "we landed on Normandy and then moved on to take Berlin" in one breath. But we know that many things happened in between that are not related in that sentence. Those other things may not be relevant to what we are discussing right now, so they aren't worth mentioning in this instance, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that they aren't relevant in some context.