The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Resisting is our default condition. Man is hostile toward God by nature.
Comparing Calvinism, Arminianism, and Molinism
- Thread starter Theophilus
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Resisting is our default condition. Man is hostile toward God by nature.
It does not say they could have done anything. Your presuming
civic
Well-known member
Not in Calvinism since God is irresistible
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I can always rely on you to answer with snarky meaningless misrepresentations.
Theophilus
Active member
Excellent information, Thanks for posting it.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
On the other hand, WHY BOTHER with any of them??? God's ways are HIGHER than our ways, and WE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND at His Level, all the ins and outs of His creation/subsequent Redemption of humanity. "Isms" are of no value in terms of bringing folks to Jesus for salvation, and worthless in terms of GROWING Spiritually into Christian Maturity. "Calvinism" won't heal the Sick, and "Arminianism" won't have any effect if there's a problem with demonic oppression.
Biblically, you're NOT COMING TO CHRIST unless God Draws you to him (John 6:44). You don't have to even be aware of the "ELECTION"Theology, or "Regeneration" theology, or any of that "Systematic" process. Before you become a Christian, it's all hidden from you, and that's why AFTER you're saved it's time to take his "yoke" (dedicate yourself to walk at HE LEADS Mat 11:29,30), and LEARN OF HIM. If you NEVER BOTHER WITH "Isms", it doesn't matter at all. Jesus promised the HOLY SPIRIT who would give you wisdom, and lead you into TRUTH John 14:26, and the kicker: 1 John 2:27
Many scriptures show belief possible
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven
Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
you are in denial
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That is your false characterization.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
It is clear that all have heard. Their voice went to the ends of the earth. God has not left Himself without witness.
civic
Well-known member
So are you denying the “ I” in tulip ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Oh... but you weren't were you!!!!! You believe God was special to you. That God preferred you.
Yes it is certainly ironic
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Have you ever learned from someone else? Just how are you even engaging in conversations such as this without knowing the English language?
Are you claiming special revelation from God without knowing the English language? Why do you even search the Scriptures?
or if Christ draws
John 12:32 (ESV) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
There are MANY spiritual "VOICES" out there. Ignorance of the Bible renders you "Fair Game" for deception. I listen to many people, and God has many ways of getting one's attention.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So you are claiming special revelation..... Why not just admit that you are?
Do you how many people in this world have been deceived by a mistake in translation from an English bible. How did the Spirit "correct" your understanding in such a scenario?
The words of John has nothing to do with what you claim they mean. You study to learn. You study and learn from another.
1Jn 2:27 Now as for you, the anointing that you received from him resides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things, it is true and is not a lie. Just as it has taught you, you reside in him.
You don't have anything from the Spirit of God that isn't available to anyone else.
Theophilus
Active member
I agree Just give me Jesus and him crucified. But you know how we are different strokes for different folks. Maybe you could post one of your videos of your group performing. I think I saw one on a different forum. You could start a thread here
So every last person who has ever lived has heard tge gospel?
Who was preaching the gospel in let's say 3rd century Japan? Can you provide any evidence of Christianity in 3rd century Japan?
Theophilus
Active member
In third Century Japan they knew of a god "Buddha"
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:21
The message of the heavens is in a language the whole world can understand. The universality of this message makes it a message to all humanity, not just to some.
The question is often raised, when discussing the gospel message, about those in distant lands who live and die without ever hearing the Gospel. What about them—are they responsible before God? The apostle Paul addressed that question in Romans 1:20 by saying, “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.”
While we don’t understand the mystery of God’s revelation in creation to the hearts of men, we do know that the heavens speak of God to the extent that man is accountable for that message. When man follows the revelation God has given, it leads to greater revelation. But too often we find people worshiping the creation rather than the Creator. They miss God and focus on what He has made instead of on Him.
God has revealed himself in the heavens through an undeniable, unending, and universal message of truth.
David Jeremiah
We also know faith comes by hearing. They must hear the gospel
Romans 1 is dealing with the existence of God, not the gospel. No one looks at a tree and says hey, I believe in Jesus.
Theophilus
Active member
Correct in order to be saved you must believe the gospel. I don't think you necessarily have to Hear it. You could pick up a book about the Gospel read it and believe the gospel with only hearing the pages turn and the holy spirit speaking to you through the written word.
Christianity In the third century was primarily a middle eastern religion. Japan wasn't discovered by the west till the 1500s. But that doesn't let them off the hook as far as knowing who God is.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.”
They had Buddha. Western civilization arrived in Japan the gospel was shared and some of the population were converted to Christians.
According to the Bible some people are fine with worshiping a tree.
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Romans 1:21
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