Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Alter2Ego]

Doug Brents:
. . .

Matthew 28:18​

"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."


QUESTION #1 TO Doug Brents: According to Matthew 28:18, Jesus got authority from Jehovah the Father. TRUE or FALSE?

If referencing two verses (Matt 28:19-20) is cherry-picking, then what would you call referencing only one verse?

I referenced one verse (Matthew 28:18) because it presents context to the remaining verses that you latched onto (Matthew 28:19-20).

Now, quit stalling for time and answer Question #1, Doug Brents.

 

[Alter2Ego]

To AlterEgo: So the Jehovah's Witness' Holy Spirit wasn't bright enough before 1954 to show you NOT to worship Jesus. Please show us in the Scripture where the light of the Holy Spirit gets brighter and dimmer. You are correct in speaking of the JW's Holy Spirit, because that certainly is NOT the Bible's Holy Spirit. You know, Alter2Ego, you can ignore me all you want, but that won't stop me from pointing out your false teaching which you have adopted as your own from the deceiving Watchtower Society. Apparently the JW'S Holy Spirit changed His mind in 1954? In fact the JW's Holy Spirit has changed his mind several times:

To understand the changes in doctrine among Jehovah's Witnesses, consider the following points:

1. Early Teachings: Initially, they believed in a literal 1914 end of the world.
2. Blood Transfusions: Changed stance on medical procedures involving blood over the years.
3. Generation Teaching: Adjusted the interpretation of "this generation" regarding the end times.
4. Disfellowshipping: Evolved policies on how and when to disfellowship members.
5. Understanding of the Trinity: Consistently maintained a non-Trinitarian view, but clarified their stance over time.
6. Prophetic Dates: Revised predictions about the timing of significant events, such as the return of Christ.

You should become a willing servant of Jesus Christ instead of a deceived slave to the evil Watchtower Society, which puts itself in the place of God.

dwight92070:

I warned you not to post more tripe to me or risk banishment to my Ignore List.


You are now on permanent Ignore where I will never again be able to read anything you post anywhere on this website.

 

[atpollard]

Doug Brents:

That's false. "Literally says," my foot. No where at John 1:1 does it "literally" say, to quote you "the Word was already there." It simply says "In the beginning was the Word...."

Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

WAS (verb)
past tense first- and third-person singular of BE (to have an objective existence : have reality or actuality)

"In the beginning (had [past tense] actual existence: existed) the Word...."

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents:

That's false. "Literally says," my foot. No where at John 1:1 does it "literally" say, to quote you "the Word was already there." It simply says "In the beginning was the Word...."

Again, can you not understand English? "In the beginning" (when the beginning came), "was the Word (the Word was already there). The Word was responsible for the beginning, because everything that was made was made THROUGH/BY Him.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents:

False, again. John 1:3 says nothing resembling "He cannot be a created being," because that verse of scripture makes it clear that Jehovah God was the power behind the creating and that Jehovah simply worked through Jesus. John 1:3 says the following, and I will quote from three Trinitarian Bible translations that got it right:


"God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him." (John 1:3 -- New Living Translation)

John 1 NLT

"And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created" (John 1:3 -- Contemporary English Version)

John 1 CEV

"Through him God made all things; not one thing in all creation was made without him." (John 1:3 -- Good News Translation)

John 1 GNT

All three of these "translations" are nothing of the sort; they are paraphrases. This means that the author of these books took the Word of God (the Scripture that God authored) and put it in their own words, while inserting their own preconceptions, ideologies, and thoughts into the text, thereby polluting the Scripture and making it nothing but a fiction novel based on Scripture.

The translations below are much closer to word-for-word translations (although each still has errors that don't affect this discussion).
New International Version
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
King James Bible
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
New American Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
American Standard Version
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

Jesus IS God (John 1:1), and because He is God it makes no sense to say that God created everything through Him. That would be like saying that God created everything through Himself.

 

[Doug Brents]

I referenced one verse (Matthew 28:18) because it presents context to the remaining verses that you latched onto (Matthew 28:19-20).

Now, quit stalling for time and answer Question #1, Doug Brents.

LOL, I have already answered "Question #1", twice as a matter of fact. Read my posts and find the answer yourself. I will not post it again.

 

[DavidTree]

dwight92070:

I warned you not to post more tripe to me or risk banishment to my Ignore List.


You are now on permanent Ignore where I will never again be able to read anything you post anywhere on this website.

"Pride goes before the fall."

i see that you have already fallen!

 

[Alter2Ego]

Doug Brents:

That's false. "Literally says," my foot. No where at John 1:1 does it "literally" say, to quote you "the Word was already there." It simply says "In the beginning was the Word...."

Again, can you not understand English? "In the beginning" (when the beginning came), "was the Word (the Word was already there). The Word was responsible for the beginning, because everything that was made was made THROUGH/BY Him.

Doug Brents:

I told you already that you shot yourself in the foot when you made the mistake of introducing John 1:1. Now you're making the lame attempt at talking your way around scriptural correction.

The expression "beginning" can only apply to Jesus Christ aka the Word. Here's why: Scripture says Almighty God Jehovah does not have a beginning.


"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- New International Version)

Psalm 90 NIV

Definition of everlasting:
1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Definition of EVERLASTING

lasting or enduring through all time : eternal; continuing for a long time or indefinitely; having or being flowers or foliage that retain form or color for a long time when dried… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

"Before the mountains were born Or before You had given birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are [the eternal] God." (Psalm 90:2 -- Amplified Bible)

Psalm 90 Amplified Bible

"Before the mountains were born, before You gave birth to the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity, You are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- Holman Christian Bible)

Psalm 90 HCSB

Definition of eternal:
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ).

eternal life.

ETERNAL Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

ETERNAL definition: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ). See examples of eternal used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

 

[Alter2Ego]

Again, can you not understand English? "In the beginning" (when the beginning came), "was the Word (the Word was already there). The Word was responsible for the beginning, because everything that was made was made THROUGH/BY Him.

Doug Brents:

Jesus Christ/the Word had a beginning and therefore is a created being. A created being cannot create. Jehovah was the power behind the creating. He simply worked through Jesus Christ, his first created spirit son--an ANGEL.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. New International Version
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. King James Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. New American Standard Bible
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. American Standard Version

Jesus IS God (John 1:1), and because He is God it makes no sense to say that God created everything through Him. That would be like saying that God created everything through Himself.

Three of your Trinitarian Bible translations said everything was made "through Him" (meaning through Jesus), instead of "by him." So what's your point, Doug Brents?

 

[Alter2Ego]

I referenced one verse (Matthew 28:18) because it presents context to the remaining verses that you latched onto (Matthew 28:19-20).

Now, quit stalling for time and answer Question #1, Doug Brents.

LOL, I have already answered "Question #1", twice as a matter of fact. Read my posts and find the answer yourself. I will not post it again.

You didn't answer anything, Doug Brents. You ran from scriptural correction--as expected.

 

[atpollard]

I told you already that you shot yourself in the foot when you made the mistake of introducing John 1:1. Now you're making the lame attempt at talking your way around scriptural correction.

 

[Capbook]

God is not the Son from the Father being that God is the Father.

The word "God" is not the personal name of the Father, that's His divine nature. (Rom 1:20, Acts 17:29)
The same with Jesus, having the nature of God. (Col 2:9)

This verse is another verse that is a textual variant - the argument being: did the original read 'the only God' from the Father? or 'the only Son' from the Father? ----- the consensus is still out as to a non-ambiguous translation of John 1:18.

I quote from NASB+ a literal word for word Bible translation that aim to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages.

Another Bible translation that abide in the process of "textual criticism," the Updated America Standard Version+(UASV+) identified Jesus as the "only begotten God" supported by the oldest manuscripts, the papyri 66 and 75, written in Bible "original words." Please see the the N7 note below. There are variant readings but was not specified as the "original wordings" of the text.

(UASV+) John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten GodN7 who is in the bosom of the Father,N8 that one has made him fully known.

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

True, Jesus, the human being, the Word become flesh - came to make known, to declare, to unfold the character of His Father aka God.

Yes, and He also possessed the same nature with the Father as God. (Col 2:9)

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents:

I told you already that you shot yourself in the foot when you made the mistake of introducing John 1:1. Now you're making the lame attempt at talking your way around scriptural correction.

The expression "beginning" can only apply to Jesus Christ aka the Word. Here's why: Scripture says Almighty God Jehovah does not have a beginning.

Neither does the Word. Because at the Beginning, the Word was already there with God, and the Word (which you have already admitted is Jesus) WAS God. He was already there at the Beginning (of time, Creation, the Universe, etc.). Just as the Father is eternal (having no beginning or end) so too is the Word.

"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- New International Version)

Psalm 90 NIV

Definition of everlasting:
1: lasting or enduring through all time : eternal

Definition of EVERLASTING

lasting or enduring through all time : eternal; continuing for a long time or indefinitely; having or being flowers or foliage that retain form or color for a long time when dried… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

"Before the mountains were born Or before You had given birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are [the eternal] God." (Psalm 90:2 -- Amplified Bible)

Psalm 90 Amplified Bible

"Before the mountains were born, before You gave birth to the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity, You are God." (Psalm 90:2 -- Holman Christian Bible)

Psalm 90 HCSB

Definition of eternal:
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ).

eternal life.

ETERNAL Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

ETERNAL definition: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (temporal ). See examples of eternal used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

Everything you say about the Father is true about Jesus as well. He had no beginning and He has no end.

 

[Doug Brents]

Three of your Trinitarian Bible translations said everything was made "through Him" (meaning through Jesus), instead of "by him." So what's your point, Doug Brents?

The point is that He could not have created Himself. If EVERYTHING that was created was created by and through Him, then He could not have created Himself through Himself. He had to have preexisted the creation of the first created thing.

 

[Doug Brents]

You didn't answer anything, Doug Brents. You ran from scriptural correction--as expected.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean that the question wasn't answered. Look at post #397.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Doug Brents:

I quoted Matthew 28:18 (the context to your cherry-picked verses at Matthew 28:19-20) and asked you a direct question. Until you answer my question, this conversation is over.

LOL, I have already answered "Question #1", twice as a matter of fact. Read my posts and find the answer yourself. I will not post it again.

You didn't answer anything, Doug Brents. You ran from scriptural correction--as expected.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean that the question wasn't answered. Look at post #397.

Doug Brents:

I asked you a TRUE or FALSE question at Post 389 that you refuse to answer. The answer must either be TRUE or FALSE. Anything beside that amounts to evading.

Post in thread 'Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?'

Jan 15, 2026

Doug Brents,

You are hardly in a position to tell anyone that they are lacking in study of scripture, based on your four cherry-picked verses, none of which say anything resembling "three persons combined into a single god and all three are co-equal and co-eternal."

If you had bothered to pay attention to context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters), you would have realized that the four verses you presented above: Matthew 28:19; Philippians 2:7; John 1:1-3, 14; and John 1:3 actually debunk Christendom's Trinity when context is paid...

• Alter2Ego

Now you're wasting my time going back and forth. This is not a game. That's the red flag that I was looking for. It means you are not interested in being corrected by scripture.

Our conversation is over. You can now joint the other six Liars for Trinity that are already on my Ignore List. Go waste somebody else's time.

 

[mikesw]

Doug Brents:

I asked you a TRUE or FALSE question at Post 389 that you refuse to answer. The answer must either be TRUE or FALSE. Anything beside that amounts to evading.

Post in thread 'Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?'

Jan 15, 2026

Doug Brents,

You are hardly in a position to tell anyone that they are lacking in study of scripture, based on your four cherry-picked verses, none of which say anything resembling "three persons combined into a single god and all three are co-equal and co-eternal."

If you had bothered to pay attention to context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters), you would have realized that the four verses you presented above: Matthew 28:19; Philippians 2:7; John 1:1-3, 14; and John 1:3 actually debunk Christendom's Trinity when context is paid...

• Alter2Ego

Now you're wasting my time going back and forth. This is not a game. That's the red flag that I was looking for. It means you are not interested in being corrected by scripture.

Our conversation is over. You can now joint the other six Liars for Trinity that are already on my Ignore List. Go waste somebody else's time.

oh. back to controlling the debate -- "you must answer the question as asked" -- where this is like asking "have you stopped beating your wife."
Then Alter2Ego calls everyone a liar who does not fall for the question asked in such arrogance. And then Alter2Ego has wasted many people's time by not being open to actually dialogue instead of controlled answers. What irony. Soon Alter2Ego will have no one to "debate" with.

 

[Capbook]

I asked you a TRUE or FALSE question at Post 389 that you refuse to answer. The answer must either be TRUE or FALSE. Anything beside that amounts to evading.

I just believe you're the precedence of evading from apologists you cannot counter argue by putting them in your ignore list.
To answer your Post#389, for me, it's false as the Jesus got authority from "יהוה."

 

[Rockerduck]

Only those that are NOT born again from above, believe there is no Trinity.