brightfame52
Active Member
I've seen their debates on YouTube
Calvinism is Gospel !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Active Member
Salvation comes first, then Spiritual activity
civic
Active Member
Nope belief then salvation
brightfame52
Active Member
Salvation then believing, otherwise man is spiritually dead in sin and unbelief.
Except verses that speak of salvation and belief put belief first.
John 3:16For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Acts 16:31And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”
Rom 10:9–10that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Eph 2:8–9For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
Mark 16:16The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
Acts 2:21And it will be that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.’
Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
John 5:24Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 11:25–26Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”
1 Cor 1:21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.
1 Pet 1:9obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
John 3:15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”
brightfame52
Active Member
Salvation is first, Spiritual life, then belief
Not if you actually read the scripture
John 3:16For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Acts 16:31And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”
Rom 10:9–10that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Eph 2:8–9For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
Mark 16:16The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
Acts 2:21And it will be that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.’
etc
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah scripture teaches Salvation first, then spiritual activity like hearing and believing the Gospel, otherwise man is spiritually dead in unbelief/sin and darkness
civic
Active Member
Nope it 100% teaches the exact opposite.
Faith always precedes salvation , eternal life, life, new birth, born again, regeneration etc….
You have it all bass ackwards . Upside down theology
brightfame52
Active Member
Impossible, Salvation brings Faith, otherwise man is dead in sin and unbelief. The adamic man is cursed in unbelief
civic
Active Member
nope faith precedes life.
brightfame52
Active Member
Impossible, Faith is a fruit of the Spiirit Gal 5:22
After you are saved comes the fruit of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22 states that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. This verse emphasizes that these qualities are manifestations of the Holy Spirit's influence in the lives of believers.
civic
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, so regeneration is prior to faith
First the verse as was quoted stated
Galatians 5:22 states that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. This verse emphasizes that these qualities are manifestations of the Holy Spirit's influence in the lives of believers.
Nothing at all is stated focusing on faith in the Gospel.
brightfame52
Active Member
That word is Faith as well, the noun πίστις translated Faith 239 x
First the verse as was quoted stated
Galatians 5:22 states that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. This verse emphasizes that these qualities are manifestations of the Holy Spirit's influence in the lives of believers.
Nothing at all is stated focusing on faith in the Gospel.
And you have not posted anything that makes such a claim.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Justification by faith alone is the Christian doctrine that a person is declared righteous before God solely through faith in Jesus Christ, rather than through their own works or merits. To receive this justification, one must believe in Jesus and trust in His grace for salvation, acknowledging that it is a gift from God, not something earned by good deeds.
There is nothing in this that states that one must be predestined to receive Justification. IN fact, The primary requirement for justification is faith. Believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Even If you consider that the doctrine of the imputation of the righteousness of Christ teaches that the righteousness of Jesus is credited to believers, allowing them to be justified before God......there is no where that biblically states this is
something that has to be initiated from the Heavenly Father before we are born, or that is in unattaninable without
His "making IT HAPPEN".
Let us further this by saying that God imputes or accredits the righteousness and suffering of Jesus to those who are in him and, conversely, imputes the sins of those redeemed to Christ.
But with this being said, I have not gotten to the point of TULIP not being in the Holy Scriptures they way you believe.
Which is why I am replying to you here.
What Romans 5: 12 - 21 teaches is (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 or until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
We have asked over and over again about TULIP and you have insisted it is ground in scriptures.
Here you provided a lengthy writing about John Calvin and 1 lowly little scripture reference to prove total depravity...
The problem is... IT is a big failure because there is nothing in what you provided that first of all says that
Total Depravity is ground in the scriptures, but even if you could prove that.... there is nothing to say that
predestination was God's provision for it.
YOUR VERSES ABOVE PROVE THAT GOD HAD A PLAN TO GIVE US AN OUT, BUT PREDESTINATION WAS NOT AMONG THAT PLAN.
Always so much talk about going back and blaming Adam. Fine.
Our Heavenly Father, through His love has provided the way if we just have the faith and believe.
If it is your way, don't you see that The plan for Adam to sin and thus pass that down the line to us was in God's master plan, yet, God did not provide all to be elect in that plan.
But allowing people to come to Him as we ARE taught , is the only just and right way. We choose.
And that is biblical.
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
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