Calvinism is Gospel !

[Red Baker]

Faith is the basis of our salvation

Faith is indeed the basis of one's practical salvation of coming to the knowledge of the truth, but faith is not the saviour, Jesus Christ's death and resurrection "is"...Christ is the only source of our "legal" salvation from our sins and condemnation. A huge difference.

Our legal salvation from sin and condemnation was secured by our surety Jesus Christ, or else, Christ died in vain. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, not our faith! It is by his obedience and faith that secured God's rightoeusness for us.

Romans 3:20​

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

Faith coming from us is a deed of God's law.

Matthew 23:23​

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

1st John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

So, our legal justification is by Christ's faith and obedience, not ours! Besides, our faith is so imperfect and the law of God demands perfection before it can grant life to its commandments. Only one person had perfect faith and obedience, Jesus Christ, so why would any person want to rob Christ of what he did for his elect as their representative before God's law?

2nd Corinthians 5:21​

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

I rather trust in Christ for my righteousness before God instead of my pitiful and weak faith. Again, faith is not the Saviour, Christ' life of faith and obedience is the only means.

​

 

[FreeInChrist]

Faith is indeed the basis of one's practical salvation of coming to the knowledge of the truth, but faith is not the saviour, Jesus Christ's death and resurrection "is"...Christ is the only source of our "legal" salvation from our sins and condemnation. A huge difference.

Our legal salvation from sin and condemnation was secured by our surety Jesus Christ, or else, Christ died in vain. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, not our faith! It is by his obedience and faith that secured God's rightoeusness for us.

Romans 3:20​

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

Faith coming from us is a deed of God's law.

Matthew 23:23​

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

1st John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

So, our legal justification is by Christ's faith and obedience, not ours! Besides, our faith is so imperfect and the law of God demands perfection before it can grant life to its commandments. Only one person had perfect faith and obedience, Jesus Christ, so why would any person want to rob Christ of what he did for his elect as their representative before God's law?

2nd Corinthians 5:21​

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

I rather trust in Christ for my righteousness before God instead of my pitiful and weak faith. Again, faith is not the Saviour, Christ' life of faith and obedience is the only means.

​

Sigh,

I keep asking this and still am not understanding.

Jesus is the Christ. Correct? Jesus is also God. Correct?

Then please explain in what faith is the Faith of Jesus who is God?

We are told that without faith it is impossible to please God.[Heb 11:6] So we are told we must have faith to do so.

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

Sigh,

I keep asking this and still am not understanding.


Jesus is the Christ. Correct? Jesus is also God. Correct?

Then please explain in what faith is the Faith of Jesus who is God?

Good morning.

Yes, Jesus was God manifest in "the flesh" so our Lord Jesus, was a complex person, fully God, fully man, and we must keep these two natures separate, or else, false teaching will come forth. As a man, Jesus lived and died in our place, and his perfect life of obedience and faith is freely imparted to us by the grace of Almighty God. Never forget, the very life we now live as children of God we live not by our faith since we had none before regeneration, we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us and gave himself for us. The new man within us, is created after the very image of Jesus Christ and by this new man we live unto God!

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Few truly understand the truths of the gospel of Christ, so very sad. The truth of the gospel is almost gone from the earth, I say this with a broken heart, since I have grandchildren and now great grandchildren living in this world, I'm trying to teach some of them who will listen to the truth of the gospel, but even for them it is hard to understand and receive, since there are so many voices in the world. Of my own children only one truly grasp these blessed truths, even though all of them do show respect and honour when I do talk, which is a good thing.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored what these were able to do.


But it does seem you often cannot believe scripture.

If Enoch pleased the Lord, that simply means he wasn't in the flesh, he had been regenerated, and given faith no doubt the Spirit of Christ was in him as he was a prophet, this is his prophecy Jude 1 14-15

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 o execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Peter wrote the prophets had the Spirit of Christ in them, that's regeneration 1 Pet 1 10-11

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 ;Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Now if he had the Spirit of Christ in him, he belonged to Christ Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

So sorry Brother Enoch was not in the flesh

 

[TomL]

If Enoch pleased the Lord, that simply means he wasn't in the flesh, he had been regenerated, and given faith no doubt the Spirit of Christ was in him as he was a prophet, this is his prophecy Jude 1 14-15

Sorry, nowhere do you read of Old Testament regeneration.

And you ignored the scripture that shows ability

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 o execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Peter wrote the prophets had the Spirit of Christ in them, that's regeneration 1 Pet 1 10-11

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 ;Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Um there is no mention of personal regeneration

1 Peter 1:10–12 (LEB) — 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace meant for you sought and made careful inquiry, 11 investigating for what person or which time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he testified beforehand to the sufferings with reference to Christ and the glories after these things, 12 to whom it was revealed that they were serving not themselves but you with reference to the same things which now have been announced to you through those who proclaimed the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels desire to look.

Now if he had the Spirit of Christ in him, he belonged to Christ Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

And you take from that which is initiated in the New Covenant and place it in the OLD when it was not available

So sorry Brother Enoch was not in the flesh

You failed to show any support for personal regeneration.

 

[TomL]

@FreeInChrist

Good morning.

Yes, Jesus was God manifest in "the flesh" so our Lord Jesus, was a complex person, fully God, fully man, and we must keep these two natures separate, or else, false teaching will come forth. As a man, Jesus lived and died in our place, and his perfect life of obedience and faith is freely imparted to us by the grace of Almighty God. Never forget, the very life we now live as children of God we live not by our faith since we had none before regeneration, we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us and gave himself for us. The new man within us, is created after the very image of Jesus Christ and by this new man we live unto God!

UM, nowhere do we read that unbelievers receive the Spirit and are regenerated.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:39 (LEB) — 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Faith clearly precedes the reception of the Spirit

 

[Amy]

@Overcomer

Well, that's a bold statement, since you truly do not know me, let's stay away from judging a person's character, go go after their doctrine, that's fair game, but their heart we do not know.

Let get back to your first post and discuss that post before jumping all over the place. All these scriptures below I know them well and have known them for over fifty years almost by memory. Yet they are nothing more than many scriptures quoted without a purpose as to why they are being quoted.

If it walks like a duck.....

 

[JLB]

@JLB

I'm not here to defend any man, I can tell you what the word of God teaches, and what I see and understand, do you want to hear it and respond back to me? A simple yes, or no. Thank you.

Yes.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Few truly understand the truths of the gospel of Christ, so very sad. The truth of the gospel is almost gone from the earth, I say this with a broken heart, since I have grandchildren and now great grandchildren living in this world, I'm trying to teach some of them who will listen to the truth of the gospel, but even for them it is hard to understand and receive, since there are so many voices in the world. Of my own children only one truly grasp these blessed truths, even though all of them do show respect and honour when I do talk, which is a good thing.

The ironic thing is that while few may not understand the truths of the gospel of Christ, I suspect more know then you believe to be so because many of us do study the written word , and we listen and hear, and see and are not blinded to things that others fight against.

The reason I sent this this morning to you was because you have always talked on "the faith OF Jesus. At least for the past 6 or 7 years.

I had always understood from my studies that Faith... our faith...in Jesus.... no matter how weak is key most important in our salvations and when the predestined folks like yourself always say that God chose those who would be saved, before time so that those who ... if I can casually say it like this.... are on the list ... will be regenerated preceding faith....before God gives a person the gift of faith so that they can believe in Jesus for eternal life... because God knows that He must first remove the problem of "total inability."

If what you believe IS true... then certainly the Faith of Jesus is not needed. Reason... because the Heavenly Father had it covered by predetermining folks then giving them the needed faith to believe in His Son.

It should not be so confusing.....

Such confusion makes many just turn their backs and walk away from God because they simply cannot understand, or basically feel they are not smart enough.

My own Calvin church of which I have been a member for 52 years and of the denomination for now 78 years... since as a babe my mother had me baptized as Calvin directed. My church never once taught or talked in the terms of our being predestined.
Not in the sense that it is taught these days.... but we were taught long and hard on what Jesus did for us and the importance of our having Faith in him, A believing faith. Enough on that....

It was through reading and studying and reasoning and observing that I came to understand that free will was an important Gift that the Heavenly Father has given each of us. And I do see the Faith OF Jesus being a part of everyone's lives and instrumental in leading us.

I shall keep reading you because I know you are a very smart man with convictions that no one can shake and perhaps some day I too will understand.... (If I do not go to join "Grams" before hand. I am sure you remember her)

In the meantime just keep at your Grandkids teachings.... When they grow up they will remember. Perhaps not the way you have a desired effect but you know God tells us to train up our kids, yada yada. And I do remember my preschool home teachings and then in grade school... which is perhaps whyI might just be an old dog who cannot be taught anew.

Blessings

 

[Red Baker]

@JLB

Please clearly explain how you believe an unsaved person becomes saved.

Greetings JLB,

Without going into the different senses the words save/saved/salvation are used the scriptures, we shall limit ourselves to this one sense: "saved from our sins and from the condemnation of God's law".

1) By grace alone through the faith and obedience of one, Jesus Christ. Is the only ground upon which The Spirit of God regenerates God's elect.

Romans 5:17​

“For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)”

Romans 5:19​

“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

2) It is grace alone, without the deeds of the law, or, any law/commandment that said in essence: "This DO, and live, sin, and die" ~ as though men in the flesh have the power, desire, will, to hear and obey, when God's testimony said that they do not, that in them, that is in their flesh, dwelleth no good thing, no, not one.

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

So, legally we are justified freely by grace through the redemption work of Christ.

Vitally, we were quickeded to life by the power of God alone, the "same" power that raised Christ from the dead, raised us when we were dead in trespaases and sins. God alone was the only active person working in the regeneration of His people, they were totally passive. Totally unaware of this spiritual birth, only the results became clear afterward, by being able to see, hear and understand, and even them a very lsow and long process

Ephesians 1:19​

“And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,”

3.) Practically speaking concerning our salvation is seen in the fact we now believe, begin to fear God, and love the truth and God's people, etc. whereas before we did not.

1st John 5:1​

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ "is" born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”

Maybe more later....RB

 

[Red Baker]

(If I do not go to join "Grams" before hand. I am sure you remember her)

I do remember her from Michigan that lived with her son and his family.

I shall keep reading you because I know you are a very smart man with convictions that no one can shake and perhaps some day I too will understand..

Truly I'm not that smart, but I do have strong convictions, and I'm not trying to be humble, just facing the facts.

I have seen you come along ways from when we first meet around fifteen years ago to where you are now. You can hold you own with most folks for sure.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Sorry, nowhere do you read of Old Testament regeneration.

Thats where Faith to please God comes from. Its not in the flesh Rom 8:8 Regeneration is being born of the Spirit, quickened. All the heros of Faith Heb 11 were regenerated