Calvinism : = Hellish

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But after reading through all the responses I find there is not much iron and a great deal of clay which wont mix.

First, who is the elect of God?

Israel (or the Hebrews) for they are the people CHOSEN of God and given a salvation covenant. Three iof them.
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6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Dt 7:5–9.

There is no Scripture of God making any covenant with Gentiles. None.
But Gentiles have become saved and born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise (given to Israel.)
So, either God is saving non-Hebrew Gentiles without a covenant,

OR

Through Exile and scatterings Jews and Gentiles intermarriage or through rape, concumbinage, etc., Gentiles who believe themselves Gentile just might have Abraham's DNA in their family ancestry and since Scripture cannot be broken in Genesis 17:7 it says the covenant is with Abraham and his seed.
Even if you have a small dilution of Abraham's descendants in your blood as long as there is Abraham's DNA in your family you just might be his seed and the reason of your salvation.
Romans 9 debunks the idea covenant is made according to ethnicity

Romans 9:6–13 (KJV 1900) — 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
 
Rom 9 says what it says. God, AT HIS DISCRETION shows mercy, and AT HIS DISCRETION hardens people. What's your "Work around" for that??
What makes you think as work around is needed?

it does not state God arbitrarily saves some and damns others

In context god desires to have mercy on all (Rom 11) but to bring his plan of redemption to the world he will harden those in opposition to his purpose to bring mercy to those that will accept it

In Rom 9 God hardened an evil Pharoah and an unbelieving Israel to bring salvation to the gentiles and those of Israel who would believe

and btw hardened Israel was not without remedy

Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
 
Romans 9 debunks the idea covenant is made according to ethnicity

Romans 9:6–13 (KJV 1900) — 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Gosh really? The Messianic Jewish ✡️ Bible
doesn't say that. You need to junk the KJV.
GOD decides what his promises mean and how they are to be carried out. Although the phrase, "seed of Avraham," seems self-explanatory, God decided what is to be called "your seed," For purposes of the promise, will be in Yitzhak (Isaac), not in Yishma'el (Ishmael), of whom the same word seed is used in Gen. 21:13, but not in connection with the promise.
 
Rom 9 says what it says. God, AT HIS DISCRETION shows mercy, and AT HIS DISCRETION hardens people. What's your "Work around" for that??
In quoting Exod. 33:19, Sha'ul brings into focus God's mercy along with his sovereignty and justice. Though God is within his rights to "hate" whom he will, one's standing with God doesn't depend on human desires or efforts; God does have mercy and does show pity.
 
What makes you think as work around is needed?

it does not state God arbitrarily saves some and damns others

In context god desires to have mercy on all (Rom 11) but to bring his plan of redemption to the world he will harden those in opposition to his purpose to bring mercy to those that will accept it

In Rom 9 God hardened an evil Pharoah and an unbelieving Israel to bring salvation to the gentiles and those of Israel who would believe

and btw hardened Israel was not without remedy

Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
In the same way that sin entered the world through one man Rom. 5:12, Sha'ul uses this theme surrounding Ya'akov (Jacob) and 'Esav (Esau) to show that through the Messianic hope, "the gracious gift of one man, Yeshua the Messiah, overflowed to many!" Sha'ul reveals the distinction between "wages" and "imputation" in revelation to the assertion of God's election of Ya'akov over Esav. In the expression "Ya'akov I loved, but Esav I hated, "hated" is a relative term here, meaning "loved less," in that one (Ya'akov) was selected as the line of promise.
 
In the same way that sin entered the world through one man Rom. 5:12, Sha'ul uses this theme surrounding Ya'akov (Jacob) and 'Esav (Esau) to show that through the Messianic hope, "the gracious gift of one man, Yeshua the Messiah, overflowed to many!" Sha'ul reveals the distinction between "wages" and "imputation" in revelation to the assertion of God's election of Ya'akov over Esav. In the expression "Ya'akov I loved, but Esav I hated, "hated" is a relative term here, meaning "loved less," in that one (Ya'akov) was selected as the line of promise.
Yes Jacob's lineage would be the line through which God's covenant people would come. Israel rather than Edom

Nothing there about unconditional election to salvation
 
Gosh really? The Messianic Jewish ✡️ Bible
doesn't say that. You need to junk the KJV.
GOD decides what his promises mean and how they are to be carried out. Although the phrase, "seed of Avraham," seems self-explanatory, God decided what is to be called "your seed," For purposes of the promise, will be in Yitzhak (Isaac), not in Yishma'el (Ishmael), of whom the same word seed is used in Gen. 21:13, but not in connection with the promise.
Maybe you just need to understand it in context

Ethnicity does not insure salvation
 
"Arbitrarily" would be "Unconditional Election". However if God DOESN'T SHOW MERCY (according to His pleasure, then you're TOAST.
nope

you provide no support for that claim

God shows who receives mercy and who doesn't and why

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 
A large percentage of whom are Born Again Christians

Calvin's Doctrine of Devil's does not care about that at all.

It is only after people's minds, like yours, Reader.

Ive met many non-Christians.... (Unbelievers never born again) who will tell YOU @Bob Carabbio .. that whatever is happening to them, bad, fair, terrible or good...is all "meant to be".

"meant to be"..

""Que Sera, Sera""​


See that JUNK?
That's Demonic Calvinism, in a believers or unbeliever's head, and in a famous movie song., as Demonic Calvinism is everywhere.

Did you know that there are "christian forums" that are 100% Calvinism?

Surprise
Surprise
Surprise.

( I jest, as its not a surprise.).......

And if you ask these people.....>"Are you a Christian"....they will say....>"yes, im a Calvinist".

But they were not asked if they are a Calvinist.

See the MIND ROT?
See the DECEPTION?

They don't see it..... because they can't see it..... as that is what Calvinism does to you MIND.
 
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Romans 9 debunks the idea covenant is made according to ethnicity

Romans 9:6–13 (KJV 1900) — 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Before the Abrahamic Covenant there were only Adamites. No Gentiles. No Hebrew. No Chinese or Russian or Mexican. ADAMITES.

After Noah and his three sons God commanded the people again to scatter and fill the earth. They stayed together in disobedience to God. However, the descendants of Shem and a man named Salah chose to separate from the others and obey God and crossed over the Jordan and did separate himself and his family. To honor this act of obedience he named his son Eber which means "crossing over." This, incidentally, is a Hebrew word that means the same and is related to the word Hebrew. This is what God called Abram in Genesis 14:13 - Abram the Hebrew. So, here is a people separated by God and is doing what God instructed.

Now you have two groups of people: those led by Nimrod and those separated to God the Hebrews if you follow Salah's family line in Genesis 11. Then Abram was born and God made a covenant with him and his descendants who be known as Hebrews and later through Judah in general the "Jews." This covenant was given the sign of circumcision which dropped a hard line between those "nations" not Hebrew and circumcised and a people known as Gentiles. There've been only two races on the planet: Hebrews and Gentiles.

Your quote Romans 9:6-13 describes two people from the seed of Abraham: Jacob and Esau.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

...meaning Esau...

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

So, to show non-ethnicity using Romans doesn't apply.

But the circumcision in Abraham and his seed DOES. God made no covenant with Adamites nor with Gentiles.

Another thing, God Himself was the one to make any covenants He desired, and He CHOSE Abram the Hebrew (obedient family) as recipient to that covenant and God Himself made covenant with the children of Israel (Jacob), and the New Covenant with the House of Israel. God Himself did this directly.

Saul was sent with a message. He was not authorized to create any kind of covenant and include Gentiles as you suppose. He is not authorized nor does he have the power to effect it as God does providentially. Besides this, Saul was a rabbi, a Pharisee of Pharisees and a man above his equals. He knew the OT Scripture. He is not stupid to say anything that contravenes the existing covenants God has with the Hebrews. So, every and all interpretations that would include Gentiles in any of the Hebrew Covenants is a lie. As a matter of fact, I find Saul contradicting himself at least three times I've found in his letters and historically, the people that collected scrolls and made a canon were Gentiles in the fourth century and I think it self-serving they included letters that seem to imply Gentiles in any of the HEBREW covenants are themselves a lie. The Jews were the possessors of the oracles of God and quite impossible to change those writings to say Gentiles are included.

So, unless you can show me in the Hebrew writings of Law, Psalms, and Prophets Gentiles clearly included in any of the God-Hebrew covenants - which there is none - then you may have an argument and I will champion such cause.
Otherwise, you have nothing, and Gentiles have nothing. By the way here is God's attitude and Word concerning Gentiles (non-Hebrews)

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

The Word of God.

Study it.
 
So why is Calvinism : Hellish ?

Its because Paul defines these types of teachings, theologies, doctrines, as "Doctrines of Devils"..

So, where is their Home?

"Hell was created for the DEVIL and.. his Angels".

Who is a son of The devil? Its anyone who is not born again.

So, can you See the connection to "hellish" doctrine, as "Doctrines of Devils".. as THEOLOGY?

And what makes John Calvinism's TULIP, the most Hellish, Along with Catholicism?

In Both cases, they Nullify the CROSS with some teaching that does this, on purpose.

In Calvin's case, He "Limits" the Cross, which denies it.
In the case of the "cult of Mary", they deny "justification by faith" as Paul teaches it.. as "Faith alone".

So, who BUT the DEVIL would want the Cross denied?

= Hellish "Doctrine of Devils."
 
Before the Abrahamic Covenant there were only Adamites. No Gentiles. No Hebrew. No Chinese or Russian or Mexican. ADAMITES.

After Noah and his three sons God commanded the people again to scatter and fill the earth. They stayed together in disobedience to God. However, the descendants of Shem and a man named Salah chose to separate from the others and obey God and crossed over the Jordan and did separate himself and his family. To honor this act of obedience he named his son Eber which means "crossing over." This, incidentally, is a Hebrew word that means the same and is related to the word Hebrew. This is what God called Abram in Genesis 14:13 - Abram the Hebrew. So, here is a people separated by God and is doing what God instructed.

Now you have two groups of people: those led by Nimrod and those separated to God the Hebrews if you follow Salah's family line in Genesis 11. Then Abram was born and God made a covenant with him and his descendants who be known as Hebrews and later through Judah in general the "Jews." This covenant was given the sign of circumcision which dropped a hard line between those "nations" not Hebrew and circumcised and a people known as Gentiles. There've been only two races on the planet: Hebrews and Gentiles.

Your quote Romans 9:6-13 describes two people from the seed of Abraham: Jacob and Esau.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

...meaning Esau...

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

So, to show non-ethnicity using Romans doesn't apply.

But the circumcision in Abraham and his seed DOES. God made no covenant with Adamites nor with Gentiles.

Another thing, God Himself was the one to make any covenants He desired, and He CHOSE Abram the Hebrew (obedient family) as recipient to that covenant and God Himself made covenant with the children of Israel (Jacob), and the New Covenant with the House of Israel. God Himself did this directly.

Saul was sent with a message. He was not authorized to create any kind of covenant and include Gentiles as you suppose. He is not authorized nor does he have the power to effect it as God does providentially. Besides this, Saul was a rabbi, a Pharisee of Pharisees and a man above his equals. He knew the OT Scripture. He is not stupid to say anything that contravenes the existing covenants God has with the Hebrews. So, every and all interpretations that would include Gentiles in any of the Hebrew Covenants is a lie. As a matter of fact, I find Saul contradicting himself at least three times I've found in his letters and historically, the people that collected scrolls and made a canon were Gentiles in the fourth century and I think it self-serving they included letters that seem to imply Gentiles in any of the HEBREW covenants are themselves a lie. The Jews were the possessors of the oracles of God and quite impossible to change those writings to say Gentiles are included.

So, unless you can show me in the Hebrew writings of Law, Psalms, and Prophets Gentiles clearly included in any of the God-Hebrew covenants - which there is none - then you may have an argument and I will champion such cause.
Otherwise, you have nothing, and Gentiles have nothing. By the way here is God's attitude and Word concerning Gentiles (non-Hebrews)

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

The Word of God.

Study it.
Try again

Isaac but not Ismael

both were from the stock of Abraham

Jacob but not Esau

Once again, ethnicity did not determine the covenant peoples

Gentiles but not most of Israel

Once again ethnicity did not determine righteousness or the new covenant peoples
 
In quoting Exod. 33:19, Sha'ul brings into focus God's mercy along with his sovereignty and justice. Though God is within his rights to "hate" whom he will, one's standing with God doesn't depend on human desires or efforts; God does have mercy and does show pity.
Selectively.
 
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