brightfame52
Active Member
Dude I dont have time to sift through all that, you piling up verses and saying nothing
Calvin on unlimited atonement
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith and works are contrary when Faith is by grace, but when you hijack it to be a condition, then its a work, and works and grace cant mix
Faith is clearly a condition
John 3:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
brightfame52
Active Member
@TomL
Then you make it a work. See Faith is by grace Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
If faith is a condition, its a work and salvation isnt sure to all the seed.
Then you make it a work. See Faith is by grace Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
If faith is a condition, its a work and salvation isnt sure to all the seed.
And the grace here is salvation, not faith.
Acts 15:11 (LEB) — 11 But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.”
And it is faith that gives us access to this grace
Romans 5:1–2 (LEB) — 1 Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we boast in the hope of the glory of God.
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont have a problem with them scriptures. Nothing about faith being a condition. Faith is of Grace
Nope, faith is not a work, and nowhere do we read God irresistibly determines its presence or absence
Romans 4:13–5:2 (KJV 1900) — 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
brightfame52
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
You have a major problem
And the grace here is salvation, not faith.
Acts 15:11 (LEB) — 11 But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.”
Faith clearly precedes the grace of salvation.
And it is faith that gives us access to this grace
Romans 4:16–5:2 (KJV 1900) — 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Romans 5:1–2 (LEB) — 1 Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we boast in the hope of the glory of God.
Sorry none of that is written anywhere in the bible.
Faith is listed only as something we must have and are responsible for.
brightfame52
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it is, Grace is always contrasted against works/conditions. The natural man isnt responsible for producing grace and faith. Thats a delusion. God gives faith and grace
